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	<title>Comments on: Citi Secures Interim Funding as SIV Plan Gets Jeered</title>
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	<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/citi-secures-interim-funding-as-siv.html</link>
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		<title>By: Yves Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/citi-secures-interim-funding-as-siv.html#comment-1175</link>
		<dc:creator>Yves Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 04:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Anon of 10:06 PM,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Good point, and good questions.  They led to &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/siv-bailout-plan-does-math-work-even.html&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this post&lt;/a&gt;.  Feel free to make any comments or corrections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon of 10:06 PM,</p>
<p>Good point, and good questions.  They led to <a HREF="http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/siv-bailout-plan-does-math-work-even.html" REL="nofollow">this post</a>.  Feel free to make any comments or corrections.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/citi-secures-interim-funding-as-siv.html#comment-1169</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 02:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yves:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Citi secured funding throug year-end for $80 billion of SIVs.  This is after they sold $20 billion of assets.  Does this mean their &quot;bid-to-cover ratio&quot; was .8?  If so, this is a big problem.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Don&#039;t they have $400 billion in SIVs?  Is all that funded through year-end?  And how is it funded?  Did they roll-over the ABCP or use the back-up lines of credit?  And at what price did they pay for this funding?  Their is an old line on the bond market that &quot;their are no bad bonds, only bad prices.&quot;  If you offer enough in yield, you can always get funding.  The problem then is the SIV is in a negative carry position (the cost of funding is higher than the yield of its assets) and is losing money everyday.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This proclamation that they have secured funding raises more questions than it answers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yves:</p>
<p>Citi secured funding throug year-end for $80 billion of SIVs.  This is after they sold $20 billion of assets.  Does this mean their &#8220;bid-to-cover ratio&#8221; was .8?  If so, this is a big problem.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t they have $400 billion in SIVs?  Is all that funded through year-end?  And how is it funded?  Did they roll-over the ABCP or use the back-up lines of credit?  And at what price did they pay for this funding?  Their is an old line on the bond market that &#8220;their are no bad bonds, only bad prices.&#8221;  If you offer enough in yield, you can always get funding.  The problem then is the SIV is in a negative carry position (the cost of funding is higher than the yield of its assets) and is losing money everyday.</p>
<p>This proclamation that they have secured funding raises more questions than it answers.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/citi-secures-interim-funding-as-siv.html#comment-1165</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sure sounds like a citi bail out to me. Hey I have a hummer (SUV)instead of (SIV) is that close enough to qualify. Its doing the same thing....I paid more then its worth, it&#039;s costing me more everyday, and I&#039;m willing to pay a fee to dump it before it&#039;s actually worthless</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure sounds like a citi bail out to me. Hey I have a hummer (SUV)instead of (SIV) is that close enough to qualify. Its doing the same thing&#8230;.I paid more then its worth, it&#8217;s costing me more everyday, and I&#8217;m willing to pay a fee to dump it before it&#8217;s actually worthless</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/citi-secures-interim-funding-as-siv.html#comment-1156</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 04:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Anon at 8:38PM is totally bang on.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I hear a lot of &quot;talk&quot; about transparency, but nobody is DOING anything about it. This may be Issue #1.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Can anyone possibly say that the last earnings reports of all the investment banks were transparent?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The problem with the financial reporting of all financial institutions is that they never disclose with any meaningful detail what their assets really are.  And let&#039;s not even get into the derivatives side of things (that is a real black hole).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This continuing lack of transparency has quite ominous implications for the world financial markets.  We could enter into a situation where nobody trusts anybody else, in which case money is neither lent in the credit market, nor invested in the stock market, and the entire system breaks down.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Bernard</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon at 8:38PM is totally bang on.</p>
<p>I hear a lot of &#8220;talk&#8221; about transparency, but nobody is DOING anything about it. This may be Issue #1.</p>
<p>Can anyone possibly say that the last earnings reports of all the investment banks were transparent?</p>
<p>The problem with the financial reporting of all financial institutions is that they never disclose with any meaningful detail what their assets really are.  And let&#8217;s not even get into the derivatives side of things (that is a real black hole).</p>
<p>This continuing lack of transparency has quite ominous implications for the world financial markets.  We could enter into a situation where nobody trusts anybody else, in which case money is neither lent in the credit market, nor invested in the stock market, and the entire system breaks down.</p>
<p>Bernard</p>
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		<title>By: Edgar</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/citi-secures-interim-funding-as-siv.html#comment-1154</link>
		<dc:creator>Edgar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 02:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/citi-secures-interim-funding-as-siv-plan-gets-jeered/#comment-1154</guid>
		<description>A salesman at a used car lot paid too much for a trade-in once upon a time. It was a decent car, and had some interested potential buyers, but they had to have their price for that old car. Most of the people kicked the tires, asked how much, and walked away. They finally found a buyer who was willing to pay. The SIVs are a thousand used car lots full of over-priced jalopies. The demand just isn&#039;t there, so then the bankers all get gubbermint cheese. See? Everything works out in the end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A salesman at a used car lot paid too much for a trade-in once upon a time. It was a decent car, and had some interested potential buyers, but they had to have their price for that old car. Most of the people kicked the tires, asked how much, and walked away. They finally found a buyer who was willing to pay. The SIVs are a thousand used car lots full of over-priced jalopies. The demand just isn&#8217;t there, so then the bankers all get gubbermint cheese. See? Everything works out in the end.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/citi-secures-interim-funding-as-siv.html#comment-1153</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 00:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>from 2:55PM ...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;(... &quot;Due to investor anxiety and/or insufficient transparency&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So why don&#039;t they just address the insufficient transparency problem then?   This is the crux of the matter.  It&#039;s obviously the least costly, least burdensome route EXCEPT that to do so would expose just how worthless these assets are.  These guys are doing all they can to avoid coming clean about just exactly what comprises these assets .. because they stink.  The &#039;market&#039; knows this and that&#039;s why it has frozen up.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Until somebody starts the inevitable avalanche of true, accurate, transparent disclosure (and takes the huge $$ hit that entails), nothing will free up this market.  Trust has evaporated.  It&#039;s a Missouri market now (as in show me)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>from 2:55PM &#8230;</p>
<p>(&#8230; &#8220;Due to investor anxiety and/or insufficient transparency&#8221;</p>
<p>So why don&#8217;t they just address the insufficient transparency problem then?   This is the crux of the matter.  It&#8217;s obviously the least costly, least burdensome route EXCEPT that to do so would expose just how worthless these assets are.  These guys are doing all they can to avoid coming clean about just exactly what comprises these assets .. because they stink.  The &#8216;market&#8217; knows this and that&#8217;s why it has frozen up.</p>
<p>Until somebody starts the inevitable avalanche of true, accurate, transparent disclosure (and takes the huge $$ hit that entails), nothing will free up this market.  Trust has evaporated.  It&#8217;s a Missouri market now (as in show me)</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/citi-secures-interim-funding-as-siv.html#comment-1150</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have no idea how this plan will work in practice, but in theory I don&#039;t think it&#039;s such a crazy plan.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As a general group, SIVs are in trouble not because their underlying assets have deteriorated in quality (though some of this has happened) but because they are having trouble rolling over their debt.  (Due to investor anxiety and/or insufficient transparency.)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If the super-SIV really does stuff itself with very high quality assets (cross your fingers for no more downgrades), is transparent about this, and backs it up with some liquidity guarantees, then that could get the ABCP rolling again.  That is, assuming that investors are avoiding ABCP because of uncertainty about existing SIVS&#039; asset base rather than a general distrust of all AAA and AA rated assets.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The feeling I get from reading the WSJ is that they&#039;ve pretty much given up lower quality assets for dead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no idea how this plan will work in practice, but in theory I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s such a crazy plan.</p>
<p>As a general group, SIVs are in trouble not because their underlying assets have deteriorated in quality (though some of this has happened) but because they are having trouble rolling over their debt.  (Due to investor anxiety and/or insufficient transparency.)</p>
<p>If the super-SIV really does stuff itself with very high quality assets (cross your fingers for no more downgrades), is transparent about this, and backs it up with some liquidity guarantees, then that could get the ABCP rolling again.  That is, assuming that investors are avoiding ABCP because of uncertainty about existing SIVS&#8217; asset base rather than a general distrust of all AAA and AA rated assets.</p>
<p>The feeling I get from reading the WSJ is that they&#8217;ve pretty much given up lower quality assets for dead.</p>
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		<title>By: tracy</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/citi-secures-interim-funding-as-siv.html#comment-1149</link>
		<dc:creator>tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Citi has a fund full of assets no one trusts the value of, so CP won&#039;t buy into assets.  So Citi cooks a scheme where a new fund &#039;buys&#039; the assets which they claim are AAA and AA and CP can be assured of their value.  Have I got that right?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;My 67 Mustang (doesn&#039;t run) is worth $1k, but if you by it and say it does run, then it&#039;s worth $10K?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Whom are the stupid people here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Citi has a fund full of assets no one trusts the value of, so CP won&#8217;t buy into assets.  So Citi cooks a scheme where a new fund &#8216;buys&#8217; the assets which they claim are AAA and AA and CP can be assured of their value.  Have I got that right?</p>
<p>My 67 Mustang (doesn&#8217;t run) is worth $1k, but if you by it and say it does run, then it&#8217;s worth $10K?</p>
<p>Whom are the stupid people here?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/citi-secures-interim-funding-as-siv.html#comment-1148</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/citi-secures-interim-funding-as-siv-plan-gets-jeered/#comment-1148</guid>
		<description>SIV optimistic Bird&#039;s eye view:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;www.cairncapital.com/publicdocs/ Guest%20Opinion%20-%20Road%20to%20Recovery.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SIV optimistic Bird&#8217;s eye view:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cairncapital.com/publicdocs/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cairncapital.com/publicdocs/</a> Guest%20Opinion%20-%20Road%20to%20Recovery.pdf</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/citi-secures-interim-funding-as-siv.html#comment-1146</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/citi-secures-interim-funding-as-siv-plan-gets-jeered/#comment-1146</guid>
		<description>Greenspan delivers sharp warning on superfund&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://www.emergingmarkets.org/article.asp?PositionID=2601&amp;ArticleID=1463222&amp;LS=EMS145798</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greenspan delivers sharp warning on superfund</p>
<p><a href="http://www.emergingmarkets.org/article.asp?PositionID=2601&#038;ArticleID=1463222&#038;LS=EMS145798" rel="nofollow">http://www.emergingmarkets.org/article.asp?PositionID=2601&#038;ArticleID=1463222&#038;LS=EMS145798</a></p>
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