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	<title>Comments on: Failed Hedge Fund Manager Cioffi, Now Target of Federal Probes, Leaves Bear</title>
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	<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now.html</link>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now.html#comment-2536</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now-target-of-federal-probes-leaves-bear/#comment-2536</guid>
		<description>Yves,&lt;br/&gt;Is this the same fund as covered here?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;Massachusetts regulators accused Bear of fraud for improperly trading mortgage-backed securities with two internal hedge funds that collapsed this summer. Regulators in the office of Secretary of State William F. Galvin say Bear employees improperly made &quot;hundreds&quot; of principal trades for the firm&#039;s own account with the hedge funds without notifying the funds&#039; independent directors in advance. Bear declined to comment....&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/11/it-isnt-over-till-fat-lady-sings-bear.html&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;John&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;PS You do know that it is standard procedure for the shadow controller to hold signed, undated letters of resignation from the offshore directors?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yves,<br />Is this the same fund as covered here?</p>
<p><i>Massachusetts regulators accused Bear of fraud for improperly trading mortgage-backed securities with two internal hedge funds that collapsed this summer. Regulators in the office of Secretary of State William F. Galvin say Bear employees improperly made &#8220;hundreds&#8221; of principal trades for the firm&#8217;s own account with the hedge funds without notifying the funds&#8217; independent directors in advance. Bear declined to comment&#8230;.</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/11/it-isnt-over-till-fat-lady-sings-bear.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/11/it-isnt-over-till-fat-lady-sings-bear.html</a></p>
<p>John</p>
<p>PS You do know that it is standard procedure for the shadow controller to hold signed, undated letters of resignation from the offshore directors?</p>
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		<title>By: Yves Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now.html#comment-2535</link>
		<dc:creator>Yves Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Steve,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Very good observations. It may be that Bears&#039; reading of the offering document was that Cioffis&#039; withdrawal was permitted (although if that was the case, you&#039;d think they would have said so to the press). &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The real issue may be the ambiguity of the funds&#039; relationship to Bear. Recall early on, Bear wanted to let them fail; it was only when the firms that had credit exposures had fits that Bear relented.  So Bear may not have felt it had oversight responsibility.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Technically, I don&#039;t think they were Bear entities. But they operated on Bear premises (I think), used personnel that came from Bear, said they were using Bear risk models, and had Bear employees among the investors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>Very good observations. It may be that Bears&#8217; reading of the offering document was that Cioffis&#8217; withdrawal was permitted (although if that was the case, you&#8217;d think they would have said so to the press). </p>
<p>The real issue may be the ambiguity of the funds&#8217; relationship to Bear. Recall early on, Bear wanted to let them fail; it was only when the firms that had credit exposures had fits that Bear relented.  So Bear may not have felt it had oversight responsibility.</p>
<p>Technically, I don&#8217;t think they were Bear entities. But they operated on Bear premises (I think), used personnel that came from Bear, said they were using Bear risk models, and had Bear employees among the investors.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now.html#comment-2534</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now-target-of-federal-probes-leaves-bear/#comment-2534</guid>
		<description>Yves,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Yes, you&#039;re right, I&#039;m sure Cioffi has his own lawyer(s) for the criminal investigation. The question is the timing of when Cioffi was notified that he is a target (if he is one), and what kind of information management learned up to that time by everybody `hanging together&#039;. This is all speculative, as you say. What surprises me is that BS never announced an internal investigation. To me, that would suggest that there are things known to management that no one wanted committed to writing. Anyway, it&#039;s very odd; an investigation by outside counsel is usually the first thing a firm in the gunsights of the SEC wants to do. So what&#039;s BS&#039;s strategy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yves,</p>
<p>Yes, you&#8217;re right, I&#8217;m sure Cioffi has his own lawyer(s) for the criminal investigation. The question is the timing of when Cioffi was notified that he is a target (if he is one), and what kind of information management learned up to that time by everybody `hanging together&#8217;. This is all speculative, as you say. What surprises me is that BS never announced an internal investigation. To me, that would suggest that there are things known to management that no one wanted committed to writing. Anyway, it&#8217;s very odd; an investigation by outside counsel is usually the first thing a firm in the gunsights of the SEC wants to do. So what&#8217;s BS&#8217;s strategy?</p>
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		<title>By: Yves Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now.html#comment-2531</link>
		<dc:creator>Yves Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now-target-of-federal-probes-leaves-bear/#comment-2531</guid>
		<description>No, that it was odd that Bear kept Cioffi on as an advisor after the funds were seriously in trouble. One was allowed to fail (I am going by memory, I think that decision was made mid-late July if not sooner) and Bear had put up a credit facility while it managed the wind-down of the remaining fund. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Bear supposedly has lots of expertise in the kind of paper the fund traded; that was part of their pitch in selling the fund. So it wasn&#039;t as if Cioffi had unique or irreplaceable expertise. So that&#039;s why keeping him on didn&#039;t seem to be warranted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, that it was odd that Bear kept Cioffi on as an advisor after the funds were seriously in trouble. One was allowed to fail (I am going by memory, I think that decision was made mid-late July if not sooner) and Bear had put up a credit facility while it managed the wind-down of the remaining fund. </p>
<p>Bear supposedly has lots of expertise in the kind of paper the fund traded; that was part of their pitch in selling the fund. So it wasn&#8217;t as if Cioffi had unique or irreplaceable expertise. So that&#8217;s why keeping him on didn&#8217;t seem to be warranted.</p>
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		<title>By: James I. Hymas</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now.html#comment-2530</link>
		<dc:creator>James I. Hymas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now-target-of-federal-probes-leaves-bear/#comment-2530</guid>
		<description>So the use of the word &quot;inexplicable&quot; in the post refers solely to performance of the fund, and not to the post&#039;s topic? I misunderstood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the use of the word &#8220;inexplicable&#8221; in the post refers solely to performance of the fund, and not to the post&#8217;s topic? I misunderstood.</p>
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		<title>By: Yves Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now.html#comment-2527</link>
		<dc:creator>Yves Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I certainly can&#039;t say for sure. However, for the matter of suits against the fund, it&#039;s unlikely that Cioffi would be sued separately (he was acting as an employee of the fund management company). In the Federal investigation, his interests are different from those of the firm. He should have his own legal representation. Under these circumstances, I doubt the firm would pick up his tab unless he had negotiated that as part of an employment agreement.  Even in that case, they might be able to void it if he were eventually found guilty of fraud.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Again, let me stress this is all speculation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly can&#8217;t say for sure. However, for the matter of suits against the fund, it&#8217;s unlikely that Cioffi would be sued separately (he was acting as an employee of the fund management company). In the Federal investigation, his interests are different from those of the firm. He should have his own legal representation. Under these circumstances, I doubt the firm would pick up his tab unless he had negotiated that as part of an employment agreement.  Even in that case, they might be able to void it if he were eventually found guilty of fraud.</p>
<p>Again, let me stress this is all speculation.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now.html#comment-2526</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Who is picking up Cioffi&#039;s legal tab? If he has been represented by BS attorneys, then management could see the shape and extent of the investigations. Meanwhile, someone in Cioffi&#039;s shoes would feel he is going to be backed up and will be candid with ``his&#039;&#039; attorneys. This is likely a broad investigation and BS&#039;s first concern is that the firm itself not be indicted. So the more details management has, the better they can ``co-operate&#039;&#039; by tossing the dogs to the wolves while hoping that will be enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who is picking up Cioffi&#8217;s legal tab? If he has been represented by BS attorneys, then management could see the shape and extent of the investigations. Meanwhile, someone in Cioffi&#8217;s shoes would feel he is going to be backed up and will be candid with &#8220;his&#8221; attorneys. This is likely a broad investigation and BS&#8217;s first concern is that the firm itself not be indicted. So the more details management has, the better they can &#8220;co-operate&#8221; by tossing the dogs to the wolves while hoping that will be enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Yves Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now.html#comment-2523</link>
		<dc:creator>Yves Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now-target-of-federal-probes-leaves-bear/#comment-2523</guid>
		<description>Generally, there is a ritual of getting rid of the person who is immediately responsible for a big problem (in Japan, the top guy resigns, here the supervising grownup is shown the door). Consider all the other heads that have rolled at Bear, all the way up to Warren Spector.   So it would have been logical for Bear to get Cioffi to resign. Keeping him on is unusual.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Now admittedly, in the case of LTCM, all the partners were retained during the wind-down at diminished pay. But the fund had complex and large positions in many markets. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It doesn&#039;t seem plausible to me that Cioffi was so indispensable that he had to be retained. There were clearly other staff involved in running the fund. One would think they&#039;d be up to the task of liquidating it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generally, there is a ritual of getting rid of the person who is immediately responsible for a big problem (in Japan, the top guy resigns, here the supervising grownup is shown the door). Consider all the other heads that have rolled at Bear, all the way up to Warren Spector.   So it would have been logical for Bear to get Cioffi to resign. Keeping him on is unusual.</p>
<p>Now admittedly, in the case of LTCM, all the partners were retained during the wind-down at diminished pay. But the fund had complex and large positions in many markets. </p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t seem plausible to me that Cioffi was so indispensable that he had to be retained. There were clearly other staff involved in running the fund. One would think they&#8217;d be up to the task of liquidating it.</p>
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		<title>By: James I. Hymas</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now.html#comment-2521</link>
		<dc:creator>James I. Hymas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 03:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/12/failed-hedge-fund-manager-cioffi-now-target-of-federal-probes-leaves-bear/#comment-2521</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The decision to keep him on as an advisor was inexplicable, unless there was some convoluted legal reasoning, for example, that keeping him in the Bear tent would lead to greater cooperation and assistance with the expected litigation (the official reason was so that he could assist in the unwinding of the investments).&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Is it at all possible that he didn&#039;t do anything wrong and was earning his pay? Or am I simply being naive?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The decision to keep him on as an advisor was inexplicable, unless there was some convoluted legal reasoning, for example, that keeping him in the Bear tent would lead to greater cooperation and assistance with the expected litigation (the official reason was so that he could assist in the unwinding of the investments).</i></p>
<p>Is it at all possible that he didn&#8217;t do anything wrong and was earning his pay? Or am I simply being naive?</p>
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