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	<title>Comments on: Robert Shiller Calls for More Encompassing Solutions to Credit Market Woes</title>
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		<title>By: newsman</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shller-calls-for-more.html#comment-3421</link>
		<dc:creator>newsman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 01:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shiller-calls-for-more-encompassing-solutions-to-credit-market-woes/#comment-3421</guid>
		<description>Sometimes somebody needs to state the obvious to bring people back to reality. That&#039;s what Shiller does in his second paragraph:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;We need to restore confidence in the markets’ basic ability to function, not in their presumed tendency to make us all rich by always going up.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;France&#039;s Sarkozy provided a similarly elegant dose of adult thinking in his comments (from Times of London) on the SocGen troubles:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;“The point of a financial system is to lend money for economic activities which, in turn, generate profits. It is not to go and speculate on different activities which create enormous flows and profits in a few hours.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes somebody needs to state the obvious to bring people back to reality. That&#8217;s what Shiller does in his second paragraph:</p>
<p>&#8220;We need to restore confidence in the markets’ basic ability to function, not in their presumed tendency to make us all rich by always going up.&#8221;</p>
<p>France&#8217;s Sarkozy provided a similarly elegant dose of adult thinking in his comments (from Times of London) on the SocGen troubles:</p>
<p>“The point of a financial system is to lend money for economic activities which, in turn, generate profits. It is not to go and speculate on different activities which create enormous flows and profits in a few hours.”</p>
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		<title>By: Carlomagno</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shller-calls-for-more.html#comment-3414</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlomagno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 00:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shiller-calls-for-more-encompassing-solutions-to-credit-market-woes/#comment-3414</guid>
		<description>Deborah,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Two words: Northern Rock. The scheme you propose is actually well known (it is known as co-insurance) and is applied in a number of countries, including the United Kingdom. The problem is that it has now been shown to encourage bank runs, since it makes it rational for depositors with deposits over the threshold for 100% insurance to pull their money out of the bank at the first sign of trouble.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In your example, that would be all depositors with more than 10k, which are evidently more numerous that those with more than 100k (the current FDIC insurance limit).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Check the posts and comments about Northern Rock on http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/ for more info.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;NB: I initially failed to understand the perverse incentives provided by the UK&#039;s deposit insurance scheme and how it promoted the run on Northern Rock. Calculated Risk made me see the light!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deborah,</p>
<p>Two words: Northern Rock. The scheme you propose is actually well known (it is known as co-insurance) and is applied in a number of countries, including the United Kingdom. The problem is that it has now been shown to encourage bank runs, since it makes it rational for depositors with deposits over the threshold for 100% insurance to pull their money out of the bank at the first sign of trouble.</p>
<p>In your example, that would be all depositors with more than 10k, which are evidently more numerous that those with more than 100k (the current FDIC insurance limit).</p>
<p>Check the posts and comments about Northern Rock on <a href="http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/</a> for more info.</p>
<p>NB: I initially failed to understand the perverse incentives provided by the UK&#8217;s deposit insurance scheme and how it promoted the run on Northern Rock. Calculated Risk made me see the light!</p>
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		<title>By: Deborah</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shller-calls-for-more.html#comment-3413</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 23:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shiller-calls-for-more-encompassing-solutions-to-credit-market-woes/#comment-3413</guid>
		<description>When I think about it, I really disagree with this 100% insurance thing.  Why should taxpayers be on the hook for 100%?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Maybe 100% for first 10k, 95% for next $90k, 90% for next $100k and 80% for next $300k.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I think about it, I really disagree with this 100% insurance thing.  Why should taxpayers be on the hook for 100%?</p>
<p>Maybe 100% for first 10k, 95% for next $90k, 90% for next $100k and 80% for next $300k.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shller-calls-for-more.html#comment-3405</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shiller-calls-for-more-encompassing-solutions-to-credit-market-woes/#comment-3405</guid>
		<description>The losses in the stock market since the highs of October 2007 are about 14 percent. This predicts — very roughly — a fall in corporate profits of roughly 14 percent. Yet there has never been a decline of quite that size for even one year in the postwar United States, and never more than two years of declining profits before they regained their previous peak.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;What the hell is that moron saying there?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;When I hear people saying the stock market is crashing or wondering why The Fed was over-reactive it does seem in a word, retarded, where I think Gentle Ben&#039;s eyes must have rolled into the back of his head and then popped some connective tissue that short circuited, because all you have to do is look at a chart:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&amp;s=%5EGSPC&amp;l=on&amp;z=m&amp;q=l&amp;c=&amp;c=%5EIXIC&amp;c=%5EDJI&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The index is down about 7% and The S&amp;P500 is still at least 5% overvalued in terms of fair market value related to a 10 year Treasury.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;What the hell is the reason behind people thinking that the stock market is in a crash&gt;  Yup, housing bubble excess is helping to restore some sanity to a bubble that needs to be popped but the overvaluation of the asset bubble in regard to stocks, is just hype!  I hate to quote Bush in any positive way, but the economy is not crashing (therefore I guess he thinks its doing great...Hmmm?).  The simple final issue is that the housing bubble has at least another year to readjust down and probably values will go down another 15% in places, and stocks will go down maybe 10% and GDP will fall and it will be ugly, but its not the end of the world  --  unless we have The Fed and Bush add more chaos fuel to the credit fire and try to inject too much cash into the derivatives market...that where the retarded part comes in!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The losses in the stock market since the highs of October 2007 are about 14 percent. This predicts — very roughly — a fall in corporate profits of roughly 14 percent. Yet there has never been a decline of quite that size for even one year in the postwar United States, and never more than two years of declining profits before they regained their previous peak.</p>
<p>What the hell is that moron saying there?</p>
<p>When I hear people saying the stock market is crashing or wondering why The Fed was over-reactive it does seem in a word, retarded, where I think Gentle Ben&#8217;s eyes must have rolled into the back of his head and then popped some connective tissue that short circuited, because all you have to do is look at a chart:</p>
<p><a href="http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&#038;s=%5EGSPC&#038;l=on&#038;z=m&#038;q=l&#038;c=&#038;c=%5EIXIC&#038;c=%5EDJI" rel="nofollow">http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&#038;s=%5EGSPC&#038;l=on&#038;z=m&#038;q=l&#038;c=&#038;c=%5EIXIC&#038;c=%5EDJI</a></p>
<p>The index is down about 7% and The S&#038;P500 is still at least 5% overvalued in terms of fair market value related to a 10 year Treasury.</p>
<p>What the hell is the reason behind people thinking that the stock market is in a crash>  Yup, housing bubble excess is helping to restore some sanity to a bubble that needs to be popped but the overvaluation of the asset bubble in regard to stocks, is just hype!  I hate to quote Bush in any positive way, but the economy is not crashing (therefore I guess he thinks its doing great&#8230;Hmmm?).  The simple final issue is that the housing bubble has at least another year to readjust down and probably values will go down another 15% in places, and stocks will go down maybe 10% and GDP will fall and it will be ugly, but its not the end of the world  &#8212;  unless we have The Fed and Bush add more chaos fuel to the credit fire and try to inject too much cash into the derivatives market&#8230;that where the retarded part comes in!</p>
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		<title>By: STS</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shller-calls-for-more.html#comment-3404</link>
		<dc:creator>STS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shiller-calls-for-more-encompassing-solutions-to-credit-market-woes/#comment-3404</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this post.  It is helping to direct attention away from the current DC stampede towards out-Keynesing Keynes with yet further fiscal stimulus.  Much as I admire ol&#039; Maynard, even a good idea can be overdone.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The housing implosion is freeing up resources which currency adjustment will draw towards tradables.  There&#039;s a good chance of a relatively mild recession which facilitates dramatic improvement in our international competitiveness IF we start weaning ourselves from our over-reliance on fiscal stimulus.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The most serious risk at the moment is an accelerating debt-deflation process which idles productive resources in response to accounting standards which tell companies to start crying poverty because there has been a big drop in the market value of some of their securities holdings.  That&#039;s a bit like being forced by accounting rules to sell your fully paid off house simply because your neighbor lost 20% on his house sale last week.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;By all means lets get more realistic about credit standards and risk spreads,etc. but lets not stampede ourselves into a panic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this post.  It is helping to direct attention away from the current DC stampede towards out-Keynesing Keynes with yet further fiscal stimulus.  Much as I admire ol&#8217; Maynard, even a good idea can be overdone.  </p>
<p>The housing implosion is freeing up resources which currency adjustment will draw towards tradables.  There&#8217;s a good chance of a relatively mild recession which facilitates dramatic improvement in our international competitiveness IF we start weaning ourselves from our over-reliance on fiscal stimulus.  </p>
<p>The most serious risk at the moment is an accelerating debt-deflation process which idles productive resources in response to accounting standards which tell companies to start crying poverty because there has been a big drop in the market value of some of their securities holdings.  That&#8217;s a bit like being forced by accounting rules to sell your fully paid off house simply because your neighbor lost 20% on his house sale last week.</p>
<p>By all means lets get more realistic about credit standards and risk spreads,etc. but lets not stampede ourselves into a panic.</p>
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		<title>By: jo jo</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shller-calls-for-more.html#comment-3396</link>
		<dc:creator>jo jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 16:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shiller-calls-for-more-encompassing-solutions-to-credit-market-woes/#comment-3396</guid>
		<description>Yves,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I would be interested in seeing your thoughts on Frederick Feldkamp&#039;s November 5, 2007 public comment letter to the Federal Reserve criticizing a number of policy decisions by the Fed on mortgage and corporate securities and derivatives.  Yesterday, Barrons highlighted a couple points from the letter, but didn&#039;t print it.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;d also like to read the letter.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Thank you.  Sorry to be off topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yves,</p>
<p>I would be interested in seeing your thoughts on Frederick Feldkamp&#8217;s November 5, 2007 public comment letter to the Federal Reserve criticizing a number of policy decisions by the Fed on mortgage and corporate securities and derivatives.  Yesterday, Barrons highlighted a couple points from the letter, but didn&#8217;t print it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also like to read the letter.</p>
<p>Thank you.  Sorry to be off topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Independent Accountant</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shller-calls-for-more.html#comment-3392</link>
		<dc:creator>Independent Accountant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shiller-calls-for-more-encompassing-solutions-to-credit-market-woes/#comment-3392</guid>
		<description>I agree with your post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your post.</p>
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		<title>By: Yves Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shller-calls-for-more.html#comment-3385</link>
		<dc:creator>Yves Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shiller-calls-for-more-encompassing-solutions-to-credit-market-woes/#comment-3385</guid>
		<description>ts,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Looks like a great read; have pulled it up and will get to it later. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ts,</p>
<p>Looks like a great read; have pulled it up and will get to it later. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: TS</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/01/robert-shller-calls-for-more.html#comment-3384</link>
		<dc:creator>TS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Strongly recommended reading in the most recent issue of &#039;Harper&#039;s&#039;: Eric Janszen&#039;s &lt;i&gt;The Next Bubble: Priming the markets for tomorrow&#039;s big crash&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Janzen argues that America&#039;s economy now &lt;i&gt;depends&lt;/i&gt; upon Bubbles created by the Finance Insurance and Real Estate sectors of the economy (FIRE), where before the dot-com era they had been a relatively rare occurrence. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;His bet is that the alternative energy sector is the next Bubble-in-the-making.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strongly recommended reading in the most recent issue of &#8216;Harper&#8217;s&#8217;: Eric Janszen&#8217;s <i>The Next Bubble: Priming the markets for tomorrow&#8217;s big crash</i>.</p>
<p>Janzen argues that America&#8217;s economy now <i>depends</i> upon Bubbles created by the Finance Insurance and Real Estate sectors of the economy (FIRE), where before the dot-com era they had been a relatively rare occurrence. </p>
<p>His bet is that the alternative energy sector is the next Bubble-in-the-making.</p>
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