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	<title>Comments on: &quot;US losing confidence vote as investors flee&quot;</title>
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		<title>By: bbot</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/03/us-losing-confidence-vote-as-investors.html#comment-5399</link>
		<dc:creator>bbot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I was saving money for a down payment anyway, but things have degraded so quickly that I&#039;m no longer planning on spending what I have saved so far.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Even worse, I&#039;ve cleaned out my Washington Mutual account, since I don&#039;t want my money frozen when they go bankrupt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was saving money for a down payment anyway, but things have degraded so quickly that I&#8217;m no longer planning on spending what I have saved so far.</p>
<p>Even worse, I&#8217;ve cleaned out my Washington Mutual account, since I don&#8217;t want my money frozen when they go bankrupt.</p>
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		<title>By: foesskewered</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/03/us-losing-confidence-vote-as-investors.html#comment-5395</link>
		<dc:creator>foesskewered</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>wow, the guy&#039;s getting a little hysterical towards the end of thatr telegraph article. Frankly, whether it stays a financial services and american debacle depends on whether european credit markets can shrug off the virus (which looks ever more unlikely from the Italian and Spanish fronts) or will the virus eventually hit iTraxx, credit markets (what&#039;s left unfrozen so far) and even money markets. Should rationality hit the euro and the pound, the resultant mess could take years to be fully cleaned up; the housing market will be the least of their worries, pain could overwhelm huge parts of Europe and the UK  and who knnows, Putin might have the last laugh. Things are gonna get ugly and sad thing is some people haven&#039;t a clue that they are about to be hit</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, the guy&#8217;s getting a little hysterical towards the end of thatr telegraph article. Frankly, whether it stays a financial services and american debacle depends on whether european credit markets can shrug off the virus (which looks ever more unlikely from the Italian and Spanish fronts) or will the virus eventually hit iTraxx, credit markets (what&#8217;s left unfrozen so far) and even money markets. Should rationality hit the euro and the pound, the resultant mess could take years to be fully cleaned up; the housing market will be the least of their worries, pain could overwhelm huge parts of Europe and the UK  and who knnows, Putin might have the last laugh. Things are gonna get ugly and sad thing is some people haven&#8217;t a clue that they are about to be hit</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/03/us-losing-confidence-vote-as-investors.html#comment-5379</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;The greenback is nearing parity with the Swiss franc&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Overtaken by events.  It already crashed through parity last night as the Asian markets opened, although nobody noticed as the yen and Bear Stearns stole the show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The greenback is nearing parity with the Swiss franc</i></p>
<p>Overtaken by events.  It already crashed through parity last night as the Asian markets opened, although nobody noticed as the yen and Bear Stearns stole the show.</p>
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		<title>By: Yves Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/03/us-losing-confidence-vote-as-investors.html#comment-5374</link>
		<dc:creator>Yves Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/03/us-losing-confidence-vote-as-investors-flee/#comment-5374</guid>
		<description>Moe Gamble,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;While generally I agree that the Club of Rome is right, just too early to get credit for it, there are a couple of things to consider:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;First is that commodities prices went up 20% plus in two months after a 30% ish gain last year. While they may have been undervalued before, they look overbought now.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Second, what enabled us to escape in the 1970s from supply limitations was exploration, improved productivity in extraction, and some substitution.  What hasn&#039;t been factored in (yet) is how far we can get with conservation.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;One of my favorite factoids is that BP decided to reduce its carbon emissions (I think this was circa 2003) to its 1990 levels. They did it at a cost of something like $30 million and it yielded $650 million in savings.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The McKinsey Global Institute has ascertained that &quot;global executives&quot; (Gods, the newspeak) believe that if they invested in carbon/energy conservation, they&#039;d save money, &lt;i&gt;but they haven&#039;t done so&lt;/i&gt;. High energy prices will overcome the inertia.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And of course, a slowdown will reduce demand independent of conservation, a deep recession even more so.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Similarly, metals demand is very sensitive to economic output; most observers thought industrial metals were way out of line with fundamentals. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Finally, the run up in ag prices was due to emerging nations eating foods higher up the food chain (according to EO Wilson, every time you move up the food chain, you get only 10% of the food energy of the lower level. Thus it takes roughly ten  corn calories to produce one pork calorie). &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Expect everyone to move down the food chain, even Americans. I wish the powers that be were pushing that actively. We will also see starvation in poor countries, but that will have comparatively little impact on demand.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;When I was a kid, the line was &quot;clean your plate, think of the starving people in India.&quot; Maybe it needs to become, &quot;Eat pasta, think of the starving people in ____&quot;.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Again, I am NOT saying that the long term trend is not towards scarcity (we really need the world&#039;s population to be about 2/3, better half, of what it is now) but we might be able to stave off the crisis and price crunch for a while longer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moe Gamble,</p>
<p>While generally I agree that the Club of Rome is right, just too early to get credit for it, there are a couple of things to consider:</p>
<p>First is that commodities prices went up 20% plus in two months after a 30% ish gain last year. While they may have been undervalued before, they look overbought now.</p>
<p>Second, what enabled us to escape in the 1970s from supply limitations was exploration, improved productivity in extraction, and some substitution.  What hasn&#8217;t been factored in (yet) is how far we can get with conservation.</p>
<p>One of my favorite factoids is that BP decided to reduce its carbon emissions (I think this was circa 2003) to its 1990 levels. They did it at a cost of something like $30 million and it yielded $650 million in savings.</p>
<p>The McKinsey Global Institute has ascertained that &#8220;global executives&#8221; (Gods, the newspeak) believe that if they invested in carbon/energy conservation, they&#8217;d save money, <i>but they haven&#8217;t done so</i>. High energy prices will overcome the inertia.</p>
<p>And of course, a slowdown will reduce demand independent of conservation, a deep recession even more so.</p>
<p>Similarly, metals demand is very sensitive to economic output; most observers thought industrial metals were way out of line with fundamentals. </p>
<p>Finally, the run up in ag prices was due to emerging nations eating foods higher up the food chain (according to EO Wilson, every time you move up the food chain, you get only 10% of the food energy of the lower level. Thus it takes roughly ten  corn calories to produce one pork calorie). </p>
<p>Expect everyone to move down the food chain, even Americans. I wish the powers that be were pushing that actively. We will also see starvation in poor countries, but that will have comparatively little impact on demand.</p>
<p>When I was a kid, the line was &#8220;clean your plate, think of the starving people in India.&#8221; Maybe it needs to become, &#8220;Eat pasta, think of the starving people in ____&#8221;.</p>
<p>Again, I am NOT saying that the long term trend is not towards scarcity (we really need the world&#8217;s population to be about 2/3, better half, of what it is now) but we might be able to stave off the crisis and price crunch for a while longer.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/03/us-losing-confidence-vote-as-investors.html#comment-5369</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Re:  Bernanke has assumed that the US can create as much liquidity as it needs to in order to prevent deflation. But he&#039;s presupposed that America can act in isolation. Our huge current account deficit means there are limits to how far we can go with the printing press operation, and we seem to be breeching them now. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&gt;&gt;  Bernanke is betting our future on a lower dollar and higher commodity costs, which will factored out of CPI calculations.  IMHO, he is doing 180 degrees opposite of what should occur, i.e, to stop printing money, let the market fall (hard) and let bad banks fail.  Investors who are safe on the sidelines will have wait for equilibrium down the road, but it s insane to place our future into  the path of a potential hyperinflation firestorm, and crash the dollar to boot!  If oil and food skyrocket, who is going to invest in stocks with devalued dollars?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:  Bernanke has assumed that the US can create as much liquidity as it needs to in order to prevent deflation. But he&#8217;s presupposed that America can act in isolation. Our huge current account deficit means there are limits to how far we can go with the printing press operation, and we seem to be breeching them now. </p>
<p>>>  Bernanke is betting our future on a lower dollar and higher commodity costs, which will factored out of CPI calculations.  IMHO, he is doing 180 degrees opposite of what should occur, i.e, to stop printing money, let the market fall (hard) and let bad banks fail.  Investors who are safe on the sidelines will have wait for equilibrium down the road, but it s insane to place our future into  the path of a potential hyperinflation firestorm, and crash the dollar to boot!  If oil and food skyrocket, who is going to invest in stocks with devalued dollars?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/03/us-losing-confidence-vote-as-investors.html#comment-5367</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What are the foreigners going to do - cut their losses and run away?  A widespread cut-and-run would completely devastate their portfolios.  They fund our deficits and we buy their stuff.  It is in their best interests to roll with the changes until it becomes absolutely, positively untenable.  I don&#039;t think we&#039;ll get there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What are the foreigners going to do &#8211; cut their losses and run away?  A widespread cut-and-run would completely devastate their portfolios.  They fund our deficits and we buy their stuff.  It is in their best interests to roll with the changes until it becomes absolutely, positively untenable.  I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ll get there.</p>
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		<title>By: donna</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/03/us-losing-confidence-vote-as-investors.html#comment-5357</link>
		<dc:creator>donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Lots of shorts covered this morning and now we ride down again. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This is no longer a financial trading market. Gambler&#039;s table, and it ain&#039;t bridge anymore. Liar&#039;s poker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots of shorts covered this morning and now we ride down again. </p>
<p>This is no longer a financial trading market. Gambler&#8217;s table, and it ain&#8217;t bridge anymore. Liar&#8217;s poker.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/03/us-losing-confidence-vote-as-investors.html#comment-5356</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dollar devaluation is a double edged sword when it comes to foreign investments in the US. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;For those who hold major positions already, it is a potential disaster should they suddenly need to sell.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But for those who have accumulated Euros or Pounds or Loonies of Yuan or Yen, etc, the US is on sale. And as equities and real estate prices decline further, buying up the USA will become one of the great investment bargains of all-time.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Evans-Pritchard focuses a little more on the risks than the oppportunities, but does a fair job of mapping the possible fractures.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Joe Shmoe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dollar devaluation is a double edged sword when it comes to foreign investments in the US. </p>
<p>For those who hold major positions already, it is a potential disaster should they suddenly need to sell.</p>
<p>But for those who have accumulated Euros or Pounds or Loonies of Yuan or Yen, etc, the US is on sale. And as equities and real estate prices decline further, buying up the USA will become one of the great investment bargains of all-time.</p>
<p>Evans-Pritchard focuses a little more on the risks than the oppportunities, but does a fair job of mapping the possible fractures.</p>
<p>Joe Shmoe</p>
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		<title>By: S</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/03/us-losing-confidence-vote-as-investors.html#comment-5355</link>
		<dc:creator>S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yves,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It is terribly hard to fathom hoew the US markets are up. Ata across the curve saying desks have been instructed to trade light. The history of intervention is not strong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yves,</p>
<p>It is terribly hard to fathom hoew the US markets are up. Ata across the curve saying desks have been instructed to trade light. The history of intervention is not strong.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/03/us-losing-confidence-vote-as-investors.html#comment-5350</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;An ad hominem unconditional support to Ambrose from one of those club Med countryman that he does like.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A good post. Push on the good work. We have the same readings and I&#039;m happy that you take time to comment upon them!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;François (gallic)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>An ad hominem unconditional support to Ambrose from one of those club Med countryman that he does like.</i></p>
<p>A good post. Push on the good work. We have the same readings and I&#8217;m happy that you take time to comment upon them!</p>
<p>François (gallic)</p>
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