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	<title>Comments on: Debasing the Dollar Will Accelerate America&#8217;s Decline</title>
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		<title>By: Ingolf</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/debasing-dollar-will-accelerate.html#comment-7263</link>
		<dc:creator>Ingolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>While the nature of debt deflation will clearly be quite different in a fiat based economy, it&#039;s probably still dangerous to underestimate its power in an economy as heavily leveraged as the US. There&#039;s also a danger of overestimating the Fed&#039;s resolve (and capacity) to counter it.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;For much of the last decade, the real monetisation has occurred offshore, which has, in turn, allowed the Fed to look virtuous. As noted in Yves&#039; post &quot;US-China Co-Dependent Behaviour Worsens&quot;, there&#039;s little reason to rely on the indefinite continuance of this &quot;happy&quot; pattern (it&#039;s nothing of the sort, of course, viewed from a slightly larger perspective).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The combination of the heavy lifting being done elsewhere and the market&#039;s continuing (albeit finally diminishing) faith in the Fed has meant they could get by on largely symbolic acts. The point will come (and probably soon) where this is no longer so, when the Fed, and the markets, will have to face up to a much less palatable mix than the one they&#039;re grumbling about now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the nature of debt deflation will clearly be quite different in a fiat based economy, it&#8217;s probably still dangerous to underestimate its power in an economy as heavily leveraged as the US. There&#8217;s also a danger of overestimating the Fed&#8217;s resolve (and capacity) to counter it.</p>
<p>For much of the last decade, the real monetisation has occurred offshore, which has, in turn, allowed the Fed to look virtuous. As noted in Yves&#8217; post &#8220;US-China Co-Dependent Behaviour Worsens&#8221;, there&#8217;s little reason to rely on the indefinite continuance of this &#8220;happy&#8221; pattern (it&#8217;s nothing of the sort, of course, viewed from a slightly larger perspective).</p>
<p>The combination of the heavy lifting being done elsewhere and the market&#8217;s continuing (albeit finally diminishing) faith in the Fed has meant they could get by on largely symbolic acts. The point will come (and probably soon) where this is no longer so, when the Fed, and the markets, will have to face up to a much less palatable mix than the one they&#8217;re grumbling about now.</p>
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		<title>By: Fullcarry</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/debasing-dollar-will-accelerate.html#comment-7261</link>
		<dc:creator>Fullcarry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Deflation is, of course, a canard.  Pseudo-intellectual crackpots have been intermittently predicting deflation since the 1930s when the dollar was still somewhat formally anchored to gold.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The idea that any paper currency is in danger of appreciating systemically because of excessive debt must be too alluring a concept to overcome overwhelming evidence to the contrary.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Paper currencies don&#039;t die off because they are appreciating too much, they die off because after repeated abuse with over issuance and neglect nobody wants or trusts them anymore.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Formerly shaky governments around the world are accumulating excessive dollar reserves at more rapid rates.   Unfortunately, the wet dream of deflation is just that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deflation is, of course, a canard.  Pseudo-intellectual crackpots have been intermittently predicting deflation since the 1930s when the dollar was still somewhat formally anchored to gold.  </p>
<p>The idea that any paper currency is in danger of appreciating systemically because of excessive debt must be too alluring a concept to overcome overwhelming evidence to the contrary.</p>
<p>Paper currencies don&#8217;t die off because they are appreciating too much, they die off because after repeated abuse with over issuance and neglect nobody wants or trusts them anymore.</p>
<p>Formerly shaky governments around the world are accumulating excessive dollar reserves at more rapid rates.   Unfortunately, the wet dream of deflation is just that.</p>
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		<title>By: Jojo</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/debasing-dollar-will-accelerate.html#comment-7259</link>
		<dc:creator>Jojo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hey! It sure would be helpful if you people posting as anonymous would choose some name to go by.  Then it would be easier to pen replies to a specific person.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It&#039;s real easy to do.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In the comment box, just click on the radio button that identified as &quot;Name/URL&quot;.  Then type in your chosen name in the Name field.  That&#039;s all that you have to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey! It sure would be helpful if you people posting as anonymous would choose some name to go by.  Then it would be easier to pen replies to a specific person.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s real easy to do.</p>
<p>In the comment box, just click on the radio button that identified as &#8220;Name/URL&#8221;.  Then type in your chosen name in the Name field.  That&#8217;s all that you have to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/debasing-dollar-will-accelerate.html#comment-7257</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Mish is in complete puzzlement concerning the US$ chart. Deflation would bring a rise in the value of the dollar. He keeps waiting for an up trend there and has the gull to say gold will rise with deflation.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The dollar itself is an instrument of credit as all fiat is. Issue to much credit and the wheels come off the factional reserve banking wagon. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Just because debt is being warehoused doesn&#039;t mean it won&#039;t come due.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It&#039;s pretty obvious there is not enough fiat to service the debt. Inflation will be in demand to cover.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mish is in complete puzzlement concerning the US$ chart. Deflation would bring a rise in the value of the dollar. He keeps waiting for an up trend there and has the gull to say gold will rise with deflation.</p>
<p>The dollar itself is an instrument of credit as all fiat is. Issue to much credit and the wheels come off the factional reserve banking wagon. </p>
<p>Just because debt is being warehoused doesn&#8217;t mean it won&#8217;t come due.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s pretty obvious there is not enough fiat to service the debt. Inflation will be in demand to cover.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/debasing-dollar-will-accelerate.html#comment-7256</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Gotta agree about the deflationists.  I see the price of food and gas, hec even chinese manufactured goods going up in price.  How anyone can call these events deflation is beyond me.  An example I think of being caught in your own orwellian doublethink/speak.  War is peace.  Truth is a lie.  Inflation is deflation.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Getting caught up in pet theories and trying to force events to your framework is no way to analyze anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gotta agree about the deflationists.  I see the price of food and gas, hec even chinese manufactured goods going up in price.  How anyone can call these events deflation is beyond me.  An example I think of being caught in your own orwellian doublethink/speak.  War is peace.  Truth is a lie.  Inflation is deflation.</p>
<p>Getting caught up in pet theories and trying to force events to your framework is no way to analyze anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/debasing-dollar-will-accelerate.html#comment-7254</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Mish is a typical US-centric analyst. He thinks the heavily manipulated by the world governments US Treasuries market represents &quot;safety&quot;. He completely missed the euro rally, he completely underestimated the resolve of the ECB to fight inflation.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Gary North calls these people &quot;deflationists in the second generation&quot; - despite decades of substantial inflation, they still cling to Treasuries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mish is a typical US-centric analyst. He thinks the heavily manipulated by the world governments US Treasuries market represents &#8220;safety&#8221;. He completely missed the euro rally, he completely underestimated the resolve of the ECB to fight inflation.</p>
<p>Gary North calls these people &#8220;deflationists in the second generation&#8221; &#8211; despite decades of substantial inflation, they still cling to Treasuries.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/debasing-dollar-will-accelerate.html#comment-7251</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Anon said: &quot;As of March 2008, Year-over-Year change in US M3 was +17.38%.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Mish at globaleconomic says:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;Claims that those charts (M3) show hyperinflation, or even a rampant increase in money supply is typical of the half-baked analysis spawning all over the web. For starters MZM and M3 contain credit transactions and money equivalents, not money.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And the distinction between money and credit is a crucial issue. A rapid increase in money supply leads to a Weimar Republic or Zimbabwe hyperinflationary scenario, while a rapid increase in credit eventually leads to a Great Depression or Tulip Bubble collapse endgame.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The ST Louis Fed&#039;s own Base Money chart shows y/y growth close to zero.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think its an important distinction.  Mish makes a very strong case we are in a deflationary period, not inflationary, because credit (money) is being destroyed at a record pace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon said: &#8220;As of March 2008, Year-over-Year change in US M3 was +17.38%.&#8221;</p>
<p>Mish at globaleconomic says:</p>
<p>&#8220;Claims that those charts (M3) show hyperinflation, or even a rampant increase in money supply is typical of the half-baked analysis spawning all over the web. For starters MZM and M3 contain credit transactions and money equivalents, not money.</p>
<p>And the distinction between money and credit is a crucial issue. A rapid increase in money supply leads to a Weimar Republic or Zimbabwe hyperinflationary scenario, while a rapid increase in credit eventually leads to a Great Depression or Tulip Bubble collapse endgame.&#8221;</p>
<p>The ST Louis Fed&#8217;s own Base Money chart shows y/y growth close to zero.</p>
<p>I think its an important distinction.  Mish makes a very strong case we are in a deflationary period, not inflationary, because credit (money) is being destroyed at a record pace.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/debasing-dollar-will-accelerate.html#comment-7249</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>MZM, M3 Show Flight to Safety &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/04/mzm-m3-show-flight-to-safety.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MZM, M3 Show Flight to Safety </p>
<p><a href="http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/04/mzm-m3-show-flight-to-safety.html" rel="nofollow">http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/04/mzm-m3-show-flight-to-safety.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/debasing-dollar-will-accelerate.html#comment-7247</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As of March 2008, Year-over-Year change in US M3 was +17.38%.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Either the Fed is seriously goosing the money supply or the Fed has completely lost control of the money supply.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I suspect the latter, which might explain why the Fed stopped reporting M3 just as Greenspan waltzed out the door.  When in doubt hide the evidence, standard MO in Washington.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A Different Anonymous</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As of March 2008, Year-over-Year change in US M3 was +17.38%.</p>
<p>Either the Fed is seriously goosing the money supply or the Fed has completely lost control of the money supply.</p>
<p>I suspect the latter, which might explain why the Fed stopped reporting M3 just as Greenspan waltzed out the door.  When in doubt hide the evidence, standard MO in Washington.</p>
<p>A Different Anonymous</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/debasing-dollar-will-accelerate.html#comment-7245</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Of course the Fed is pumping new money in the system - that is the meaning of the word &#039;liquidity&#039;. The Fed does not print the paper dollars, but that is a moot point. The net effect of the Fed&#039;s easing is the increase in the supply of dollars, the dollars that are quickly converted to commoditties, other currencies, and such.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I bet Bernanke is quite surprised that his helicopter theory does not work as he envisioned. He thought that by magic the freshly printed Bernankes will pour back in the real estate, but for some reason they all went to euros, oil, grains, flour, metals, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course the Fed is pumping new money in the system &#8211; that is the meaning of the word &#8216;liquidity&#8217;. The Fed does not print the paper dollars, but that is a moot point. The net effect of the Fed&#8217;s easing is the increase in the supply of dollars, the dollars that are quickly converted to commoditties, other currencies, and such.</p>
<p>I bet Bernanke is quite surprised that his helicopter theory does not work as he envisioned. He thought that by magic the freshly printed Bernankes will pour back in the real estate, but for some reason they all went to euros, oil, grains, flour, metals, etc.</p>
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