Comments on: The Fallen Standing of the US Middle Class http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/fallen-standing-of-us-middle-class.html Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:12:43 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/fallen-standing-of-us-middle-class.html#comment-6985 Anonymous Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:38:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-fallen-standing-of-the-us-middle-class/#comment-6985 I couldn't agree more with all your points, Landru, and your post also brings us back to the issue of Yves' original post: there is a poverty not just of wages, but also of time. The ability to cheaply buy certain minor consumer goods such as clothes or toys (relative to the 50's) doesn't change the fact that buying the larger necessaries--housing, education, health care, and food--is becoming an increasingly scary and threatened enterprise for all but the wealthiest. And, we have much less time. The worst of all possible worlds. I couldn’t agree more with all your points, Landru, and your post also brings us back to the issue of Yves’ original post: there is a poverty not just of wages, but also of time. The ability to cheaply buy certain minor consumer goods such as clothes or toys (relative to the 50’s) doesn’t change the fact that buying the larger necessaries–housing, education, health care, and food–is becoming an increasingly scary and threatened enterprise for all but the wealthiest. And, we have much less time. The worst of all possible worlds.

]]> By: Landru Guide Us http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/fallen-standing-of-us-middle-class.html#comment-6864 Landru Guide Us Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:41:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-fallen-standing-of-the-us-middle-class/#comment-6864 The admonition that the middle class is doing fine and that we could all go back to living off a single wage earner if only we lived in smaller houses and drove Pintos, circa 1955, sounds like negative nostalgia to me. The world of a half century ago was much more user friendly for low income worker -- suburbanization hadn't distanced jobs from residences, the insecurity of outsourcing wasn't ever-present, and fundamental good and services like health care and housing were relatively cheap. <br/><br/>In contrast, it takes a lot more work (and time) to be poor nowadays. Cities, transportation systems, financial institutions, the work place have all been made over to benefit the top 10% to the detriment of lower bracket Americans. Anybody who thinks being poor is simple hasn't been out much. For those without sufficient cash in their pockets, negotiating our society nowadays is an endless obstacle course of bus stops and Medicaid forms and layoffs. <br/><br/>What makes this all the more galling is the moralization of wealth that the discourse of the economic Right is now promoting full force. The subprime crisis (which is the direct result of the low wage policies conservatives have put into place over the last two decades) is recast as "people living beyond their means."<br/><br/>In the new vision of the America offered by the economic Right, living in a home, having access to health care and educating your children is living beyond your means. Time to change policies to promote high wages, financial security, and cash in the pocket of the lower brackets, where real investment begins. The admonition that the middle class is doing fine and that we could all go back to living off a single wage earner if only we lived in smaller houses and drove Pintos, circa 1955, sounds like negative nostalgia to me. The world of a half century ago was much more user friendly for low income worker — suburbanization hadn’t distanced jobs from residences, the insecurity of outsourcing wasn’t ever-present, and fundamental good and services like health care and housing were relatively cheap.

In contrast, it takes a lot more work (and time) to be poor nowadays. Cities, transportation systems, financial institutions, the work place have all been made over to benefit the top 10% to the detriment of lower bracket Americans. Anybody who thinks being poor is simple hasn’t been out much. For those without sufficient cash in their pockets, negotiating our society nowadays is an endless obstacle course of bus stops and Medicaid forms and layoffs.

What makes this all the more galling is the moralization of wealth that the discourse of the economic Right is now promoting full force. The subprime crisis (which is the direct result of the low wage policies conservatives have put into place over the last two decades) is recast as “people living beyond their means.”

In the new vision of the America offered by the economic Right, living in a home, having access to health care and educating your children is living beyond your means. Time to change policies to promote high wages, financial security, and cash in the pocket of the lower brackets, where real investment begins.

]]> By: Jojo http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/fallen-standing-of-us-middle-class.html#comment-6791 Jojo Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:10:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-fallen-standing-of-the-us-middle-class/#comment-6791 The annual Parade magazine annual report on "What People Earn" came out this Sunday. Make what you will of this information, but I always find it interesting how much people REALLY make.<br/><br/>http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2008/edition_04-13-2008/1What_People_Earn The annual Parade magazine annual report on “What People Earn” came out this Sunday. Make what you will of this information, but I always find it interesting how much people REALLY make.

http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2008/edition_04-13-2008/1What_People_Earn

]]> By: Jojo http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/fallen-standing-of-us-middle-class.html#comment-6790 Jojo Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:02:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-fallen-standing-of-the-us-middle-class/#comment-6790 NY Times<br/>April 9, 2008<br/>For Many, a Boom That Wasn’t<br/>By DAVID LEONHARDT<br/><br/>How has the United States economy gotten to this point?<br/><br/>It’s not just the apparent recession. Recessions happen. If you tried to build an economy immune to the human emotions that produce boom and bust, you would end up with something that looked like East Germany.<br/><br/>The bigger problem is that the now-finished boom was, for most Americans, nothing of the sort. In 2000, at the end of the previous economic expansion, the median American family made about $61,000, according to the Census Bureau’s inflation-adjusted numbers. In 2007, in what looks to have been the final year of the most recent expansion, the median family, amazingly, seems to have made less — about $60,500.<br/><br/>This has never happened before, at least not for as long as the government has been keeping records. In every other expansion since World War II, the buying power of most American families grew while the economy did. You can think of this as the most basic test of an economy’s health: does it produce ever-rising living standards for its citizens?<br/><br/>Full article:<br/>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/09/business/09leonhardt.html NY Times
April 9, 2008
For Many, a Boom That Wasn’t
By DAVID LEONHARDT

How has the United States economy gotten to this point?

It’s not just the apparent recession. Recessions happen. If you tried to build an economy immune to the human emotions that produce boom and bust, you would end up with something that looked like East Germany.

The bigger problem is that the now-finished boom was, for most Americans, nothing of the sort. In 2000, at the end of the previous economic expansion, the median American family made about $61,000, according to the Census Bureau’s inflation-adjusted numbers. In 2007, in what looks to have been the final year of the most recent expansion, the median family, amazingly, seems to have made less — about $60,500.

This has never happened before, at least not for as long as the government has been keeping records. In every other expansion since World War II, the buying power of most American families grew while the economy did. You can think of this as the most basic test of an economy’s health: does it produce ever-rising living standards for its citizens?

Full article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/09/business/09leonhardt.html

]]> By: Josh Kalish http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/fallen-standing-of-us-middle-class.html#comment-6772 Josh Kalish Mon, 14 Apr 2008 01:39:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-fallen-standing-of-the-us-middle-class/#comment-6772 Most of these "the middle class is shrinking" studies makes many core mistakes.<br/><br/>1. A large number of people in the lowest tier are new immigrants. Their standard of living is much higher than their previous one in their countries of origin. This gives the numbers a tremendous skew downwards. ie, for the median worker the total standard of living is higher than their parents', but not shown because of the demographic change.<br/><br/>2. The basic conveniences of life that we take for granted today such as restaurant food, home appliances, etc, were not available or cost-prohibitive in the 50's and 60's. This changes the profile radically of who will want to work and the value of their time. <br/><br/>3. Our consumption desires have changed drastically. If you want 50's quality medical care (penicillin), transportation(Chevy Pinto), and housing (median home size of 1500 sq ft), then you can most likely have that very easily on one low income earner. But, I don't think anyone wants that. Most of these “the middle class is shrinking” studies makes many core mistakes.

1. A large number of people in the lowest tier are new immigrants. Their standard of living is much higher than their previous one in their countries of origin. This gives the numbers a tremendous skew downwards. ie, for the median worker the total standard of living is higher than their parents’, but not shown because of the demographic change.

2. The basic conveniences of life that we take for granted today such as restaurant food, home appliances, etc, were not available or cost-prohibitive in the 50’s and 60’s. This changes the profile radically of who will want to work and the value of their time.

3. Our consumption desires have changed drastically. If you want 50’s quality medical care (penicillin), transportation(Chevy Pinto), and housing (median home size of 1500 sq ft), then you can most likely have that very easily on one low income earner. But, I don’t think anyone wants that.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/fallen-standing-of-us-middle-class.html#comment-6761 Anonymous Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:16:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-fallen-standing-of-the-us-middle-class/#comment-6761 Of course, RKline, when I say wages were actively suppressed, I don't mean a cabal of men in black hats sat around in a dark room somewhere twirling their moustaches and plotting to control the world-wide labor market (while, perhaps, spearing canapes off the backs of naked women.) (If only it were that colorful:)) But on the other hand, that does not mean that employers did not actively and consciously look for ways to decrease their labor costs, via various mechanisms such as outsourcing and the large-scale use of cheap undocumented aliens in previously strong bastions of unions (and good wages) such as construction. I hate the phrase "wage stagnation" because it suggests employers are just standing around wringing their hands helplessly while some impersonal force of nature prevents them from paying decent wages. The bottom line is, the people at the top make more money when the people underneath make less. And less. And less. The fact that this policy is short-sighted and ultimately disastrous didn't stop them. Of course, RKline, when I say wages were actively suppressed, I don’t mean a cabal of men in black hats sat around in a dark room somewhere twirling their moustaches and plotting to control the world-wide labor market (while, perhaps, spearing canapes off the backs of naked women.) (If only it were that colorful:)) But on the other hand, that does not mean that employers did not actively and consciously look for ways to decrease their labor costs, via various mechanisms such as outsourcing and the large-scale use of cheap undocumented aliens in previously strong bastions of unions (and good wages) such as construction. I hate the phrase “wage stagnation” because it suggests employers are just standing around wringing their hands helplessly while some impersonal force of nature prevents them from paying decent wages. The bottom line is, the people at the top make more money when the people underneath make less. And less. And less. The fact that this policy is short-sighted and ultimately disastrous didn’t stop them.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/fallen-standing-of-us-middle-class.html#comment-6750 Anonymous Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:10:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-fallen-standing-of-the-us-middle-class/#comment-6750 Maybe I think the discussion here is so good because I agree. The last seven years have been a leveraged orgy. The country's savings were spent on a senseless real estate boom to hide the destruction of the US economy by lopsided trade and domestic policies. The Walmartization process. <br/><br/>Well, there is no more credit slack to be consumed to obscure the issue. The moment of truth is at hand. Is the US wealthier from lopsided trade than if we had insisted on balanced trade ? Is it better to have a strong middle class than a bipolar economy of working poor and an elite plutocracy. Will asset prices persist or ultimately devove into deflation. <br/><br/>All the jaw boning in the world has been inneffective in dissuading American politicians from the path we have chosen. All that is left are the safety nets and the school of hard knocks. If only we had diverted Social Security withholdings to wall street all would have been fine. I guess it's not too late.<br/><br/>Let's be sure to have the Bushco push through a bunch of trade agreements and legislation before slinking out of office. Maybe I think the discussion here is so good because I agree. The last seven years have been a leveraged orgy. The country’s savings were spent on a senseless real estate boom to hide the destruction of the US economy by lopsided trade and domestic policies. The Walmartization process.

Well, there is no more credit slack to be consumed to obscure the issue. The moment of truth is at hand. Is the US wealthier from lopsided trade than if we had insisted on balanced trade ? Is it better to have a strong middle class than a bipolar economy of working poor and an elite plutocracy. Will asset prices persist or ultimately devove into deflation.

All the jaw boning in the world has been inneffective in dissuading American politicians from the path we have chosen. All that is left are the safety nets and the school of hard knocks. If only we had diverted Social Security withholdings to wall street all would have been fine. I guess it’s not too late.

Let’s be sure to have the Bushco push through a bunch of trade agreements and legislation before slinking out of office.

]]> By: Richard Kline http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/fallen-standing-of-us-middle-class.html#comment-6741 Richard Kline Sun, 13 Apr 2008 05:44:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-fallen-standing-of-the-us-middle-class/#comment-6741 To Anon of 6:38, labor markets and their wage rates are simply too big and too diverse to be covertly suppressed _directly and in the entirety of their change_ in the way that you suggest. Direct competition from lower wages in other national economies yields its own downward effects as well independent of any overt and deliberate manipulation. That said, I agree completely with what I see as your basic point, that there has been an active and substantially successful effort to erode and where posssible suppress wages in the US. 'Wage impedence' anyone? To Anon of 6:38, labor markets and their wage rates are simply too big and too diverse to be covertly suppressed _directly and in the entirety of their change_ in the way that you suggest. Direct competition from lower wages in other national economies yields its own downward effects as well independent of any overt and deliberate manipulation. That said, I agree completely with what I see as your basic point, that there has been an active and substantially successful effort to erode and where posssible suppress wages in the US. ‘Wage impedence’ anyone?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/fallen-standing-of-us-middle-class.html#comment-6734 Anonymous Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:38:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-fallen-standing-of-the-us-middle-class/#comment-6734 An excellent post and the comments are all right on, as well. The only thing I take exception to is this irritating phrase, "wage stagnation", which suggests some sort of unfortunate, impersonal activity that nobody could help, really. This bit of semantic jiggering hides the fact that wages did not "stagnate", they were actively suppressed, via various mechanisms, most obviously outsourcing and the encouragement of illegal immigration. In future discussions of our current economic collapse, I hope to see the phrase "wage suppression" instead ... An excellent post and the comments are all right on, as well. The only thing I take exception to is this irritating phrase, “wage stagnation”, which suggests some sort of unfortunate, impersonal activity that nobody could help, really. This bit of semantic jiggering hides the fact that wages did not “stagnate”, they were actively suppressed, via various mechanisms, most obviously outsourcing and the encouragement of illegal immigration. In future discussions of our current economic collapse, I hope to see the phrase “wage suppression” instead …

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/fallen-standing-of-us-middle-class.html#comment-6725 Anonymous Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:52:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-fallen-standing-of-the-us-middle-class/#comment-6725 The question is:<br/><br/>Is the average American happier than they were 20 years ago or 40 years ago?<br/><br/>Is anybody out there measuring this? Or is this "not worth measuring"? The question is:

Is the average American happier than they were 20 years ago or 40 years ago?

Is anybody out there measuring this? Or is this “not worth measuring”?

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