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	<title>Comments on: The Rise of the Neo-Malthusians</title>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/rise-of-neo-malthusians.html#comment-7001</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 04:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Are systemic limits and natural limits necessarily identities or, thanks to the ideological role of neoclassic economics, has there been a conflation.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The limits to capital are less to do with environmental degradation than capital itself. Imagining real solutions to rise from the same set of social relations which generated the problems is likely a crude idealism.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&#039;Creative destruction&#039; was always asymmetric and has increasingly become destructive creation, no mere turn of phrase but the consequence of a progressively greater inability to overcome inherent limits, which must be understood as more than a greater contradiction between nature and artificial nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are systemic limits and natural limits necessarily identities or, thanks to the ideological role of neoclassic economics, has there been a conflation.</p>
<p>The limits to capital are less to do with environmental degradation than capital itself. Imagining real solutions to rise from the same set of social relations which generated the problems is likely a crude idealism.</p>
<p>&#8216;Creative destruction&#8217; was always asymmetric and has increasingly become destructive creation, no mere turn of phrase but the consequence of a progressively greater inability to overcome inherent limits, which must be understood as more than a greater contradiction between nature and artificial nature.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/rise-of-neo-malthusians.html#comment-6991</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-rise-of-the-neo-malthusians/#comment-6991</guid>
		<description>Pulled from &quot;The Market Oracle&quot; article by Chris Laird:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It can be claimed that Asia is seeing inflation on the order of 10%, and China and India have some real problems with this now. The food riots and such, as food prices rise 40 to 100%, put incredible pressure on Asia&#039;s Achilles heel, their huge poor population. The fact is that their huge poor sector spends about half their daily income on food alone. IF food prices double, then what is left over?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Don&#039;t be surprised. If you make $2 a day, and were formerly spending $1 a day on food, and then food doubles in price, you get to the point of not being able to eat enough. In the richer nations, food accounts for say 7 to 10% of cost of living, but in poor nations food is over 50% of living costs, so these food riots are fairly easy to explain. This applies to Egypt, India, China, the Philippines, and a total of 33 countries right now. Food inflation is not tolerable for these countries.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I saw a story about a woman in India whose husband is a day laborer, and they have two kids. As food prices rose, they first sent the kids away to more prosperous relatives. Then, finally, last week said they could only eat one meal a day… because they literally could not afford enough food. Now that is what I call a critical situation. Don&#039;t think China and the other huge poor nations aren&#039;t panicking about this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pulled from &#8220;The Market Oracle&#8221; article by Chris Laird:</p>
<p>It can be claimed that Asia is seeing inflation on the order of 10%, and China and India have some real problems with this now. The food riots and such, as food prices rise 40 to 100%, put incredible pressure on Asia&#8217;s Achilles heel, their huge poor population. The fact is that their huge poor sector spends about half their daily income on food alone. IF food prices double, then what is left over?</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be surprised. If you make $2 a day, and were formerly spending $1 a day on food, and then food doubles in price, you get to the point of not being able to eat enough. In the richer nations, food accounts for say 7 to 10% of cost of living, but in poor nations food is over 50% of living costs, so these food riots are fairly easy to explain. This applies to Egypt, India, China, the Philippines, and a total of 33 countries right now. Food inflation is not tolerable for these countries.</p>
<p>I saw a story about a woman in India whose husband is a day laborer, and they have two kids. As food prices rose, they first sent the kids away to more prosperous relatives. Then, finally, last week said they could only eat one meal a day… because they literally could not afford enough food. Now that is what I call a critical situation. Don&#8217;t think China and the other huge poor nations aren&#8217;t panicking about this.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/rise-of-neo-malthusians.html#comment-6984</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-rise-of-the-neo-malthusians/#comment-6984</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Yves, for an important post. I do agree with Costello in the main. I also think he still has an unconscious attachment to the idea of growth, evident in his long, gushy section on how &quot;information technology&quot; will (somehow) create &quot;new, better&quot; ways of doing things.  I think what needs to be critiqued is not just the idea of &quot;infinite growth&quot;, which is clearly irrational, but &quot;progress&quot;, which is much more deeply imbedded in modern Western culture.  It wasn&#039;t always the case.  For a beautifully, albeit dense, history of the idea of &quot;progress&quot;, I recommend the late social historian Christopher Lasch&#039;s brilliant book, &quot;The True and Only Heaven,&quot; which looks at the conflicted history of the idea of &quot;progress&#039; in the American republic.  A crisis like the current one is also, as the Chinese say, an opportunity--in these case, to examine some of our unconscious social and economic assumptions which are driving us to total disaster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Yves, for an important post. I do agree with Costello in the main. I also think he still has an unconscious attachment to the idea of growth, evident in his long, gushy section on how &#8220;information technology&#8221; will (somehow) create &#8220;new, better&#8221; ways of doing things.  I think what needs to be critiqued is not just the idea of &#8220;infinite growth&#8221;, which is clearly irrational, but &#8220;progress&#8221;, which is much more deeply imbedded in modern Western culture.  It wasn&#8217;t always the case.  For a beautifully, albeit dense, history of the idea of &#8220;progress&#8221;, I recommend the late social historian Christopher Lasch&#8217;s brilliant book, &#8220;The True and Only Heaven,&#8221; which looks at the conflicted history of the idea of &#8220;progress&#8217; in the American republic.  A crisis like the current one is also, as the Chinese say, an opportunity&#8211;in these case, to examine some of our unconscious social and economic assumptions which are driving us to total disaster.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/rise-of-neo-malthusians.html#comment-6978</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-rise-of-the-neo-malthusians/#comment-6978</guid>
		<description>LOL...economists are always right up until their own era! &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Best regards,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL&#8230;economists are always right up until their own era! </p>
<p>Best regards,</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/rise-of-neo-malthusians.html#comment-6974</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-rise-of-the-neo-malthusians/#comment-6974</guid>
		<description>Yves:&lt;br/&gt;Thank you for this lovely column.I am especially drawn to Costello&#039;s understanding of our need for a paradigm shift from the notion of linearity.&lt;br/&gt;Cribbing from somebody while Eastern the idea that Eastern (Hindu-Buddhist) notion that the world goes on in a circular repetitive fashion, Christianity sees us moving linearly to the unique event of the Apocalypse.&lt;br/&gt;The American version of this&lt;br/&gt; seems to have come into our ethos via Winthrop&#039;s &quot;City on the Hill&quot; sermon on the Mayflower  see here http://history.hanover.edu/texts/winthmod.html  or interestingly here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcfvI3oIFd4&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Also  Reagan&#039;s awareness of Winthrop see http://www.reaganlibrary.com/reagan/speeches/farewell.asp&lt;br/&gt;But unfortunately Reagan gave us supply-side economics. Whose results seem far from Wintrop&#039;s ideal.&lt;br/&gt;Yet it is a seductive idea You can do good by doing well. It is a &quot;ziperless&quot; method of Charity.&lt;br/&gt;And we need some non-linear (in Costello&#039;s usage) theory of Economics for our paradigm to shift to. Of course they have to have their shift first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yves:<br />Thank you for this lovely column.I am especially drawn to Costello&#8217;s understanding of our need for a paradigm shift from the notion of linearity.<br />Cribbing from somebody while Eastern the idea that Eastern (Hindu-Buddhist) notion that the world goes on in a circular repetitive fashion, Christianity sees us moving linearly to the unique event of the Apocalypse.<br />The American version of this<br /> seems to have come into our ethos via Winthrop&#8217;s &#8220;City on the Hill&#8221; sermon on the Mayflower  see here <a href="http://history.hanover.edu/texts/winthmod.html" rel="nofollow">http://history.hanover.edu/texts/winthmod.html</a>  or interestingly here <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcfvI3oIFd4" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcfvI3oIFd4</a></p>
<p>Also  Reagan&#8217;s awareness of Winthrop see <a href="http://www.reaganlibrary.com/reagan/speeches/farewell.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.reaganlibrary.com/reagan/speeches/farewell.asp</a><br />But unfortunately Reagan gave us supply-side economics. Whose results seem far from Wintrop&#8217;s ideal.<br />Yet it is a seductive idea You can do good by doing well. It is a &#8220;ziperless&#8221; method of Charity.<br />And we need some non-linear (in Costello&#8217;s usage) theory of Economics for our paradigm to shift to. Of course they have to have their shift first.</p>
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		<title>By: rexl</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/rise-of-neo-malthusians.html#comment-6970</link>
		<dc:creator>rexl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>i have read most of richard manning&#039;s books, his ideas on agriculture are very interesting. &lt;br/&gt;from travelling around the western u.s. i too think and hope the current rate of growth is unsustainable.  many small to medium size towns have a beautiful core that is now being surrounded by horribly ugly &#039;suburbs&#039; of crap housing.  Cheyenne, cedar city, billings, boise, helena, idaho falls, pueblo, to name just a few.&lt;br/&gt;but then i am an old dfh, although i found it funny when we had to join a contractor&#039;s organization their representative came by to welcome us and i got to tell him well you really don&#039;t do much for us because i am not a republican nor do i play golf, he got the funniest look on his face as if the criminals were indeed running the asylum.  he realized i was a dfh but we had nice offices and my dues were in part paying his salary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i have read most of richard manning&#8217;s books, his ideas on agriculture are very interesting. <br />from travelling around the western u.s. i too think and hope the current rate of growth is unsustainable.  many small to medium size towns have a beautiful core that is now being surrounded by horribly ugly &#8217;suburbs&#8217; of crap housing.  Cheyenne, cedar city, billings, boise, helena, idaho falls, pueblo, to name just a few.<br />but then i am an old dfh, although i found it funny when we had to join a contractor&#8217;s organization their representative came by to welcome us and i got to tell him well you really don&#8217;t do much for us because i am not a republican nor do i play golf, he got the funniest look on his face as if the criminals were indeed running the asylum.  he realized i was a dfh but we had nice offices and my dues were in part paying his salary.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/rise-of-neo-malthusians.html#comment-6968</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-rise-of-the-neo-malthusians/#comment-6968</guid>
		<description>Excellent analysis.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Being the jaded old cynic that I am, I am not as optimistic as Costello that this thing will play out as benignly as he predeicts.  Large segments of the American population have thus far behaved pretty abominably.  There&#039;s already been one failed resource war, and all this anti-immigrant antipathy is indicative of a society in search of scapegoats.  It could get very ugly.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Costello is absolutely right in that the changes that are needed are cultural.  But there is nothing more rigid and unbending as culutre.  As Richard Bernstein points out in &quot;Dictatorship of Virtue,&quot; culture is &quot;powerfully conservative.  Culture is what enforces obedience to authority, the authority of parents, of history, of custom, of superstiotion.  Deep attachment to culture is one of the things that prevents different people from understanding one another.  It is what pushes groups into compliance with practices that can be good or bad, depending on one&#039;s point of view.  Suttee (the practice, eradicated by British colonialism, in which Indian widows were burned alive on the funeral pyres of their husbands) and female circumcision, as well as the spirit of rational inquiry and a belief in the sanctity of each human life, are products of cultural attachments of different kinds.  Those who practiced suttee, or who believe that women who commit adultery should be stoned to death, do not believe there is anything bad about these practices, any more than those who practice rational inquiry under conditions of freedom think there is anything wrong with that.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;We&#039;re talking about taking core Western values, which at this very moment are rapidly being exported to the rest of the world, and turning them on their heads.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Just imagine the guy who takes the subway being held in higher esteem than the guy who tools around in his new Jaguar convertible coup, the guy who lives in a little 600 sq. ft. apartment having more prestige than the guy who rambles around in his 5000 sq. ft. McMansion, thermostats set at a perfect 70 degrees 365 days a year.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It just ain&#039;t gonna happen without a tremendous amount of pain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent analysis.</p>
<p>Being the jaded old cynic that I am, I am not as optimistic as Costello that this thing will play out as benignly as he predeicts.  Large segments of the American population have thus far behaved pretty abominably.  There&#8217;s already been one failed resource war, and all this anti-immigrant antipathy is indicative of a society in search of scapegoats.  It could get very ugly.</p>
<p>Costello is absolutely right in that the changes that are needed are cultural.  But there is nothing more rigid and unbending as culutre.  As Richard Bernstein points out in &#8220;Dictatorship of Virtue,&#8221; culture is &#8220;powerfully conservative.  Culture is what enforces obedience to authority, the authority of parents, of history, of custom, of superstiotion.  Deep attachment to culture is one of the things that prevents different people from understanding one another.  It is what pushes groups into compliance with practices that can be good or bad, depending on one&#8217;s point of view.  Suttee (the practice, eradicated by British colonialism, in which Indian widows were burned alive on the funeral pyres of their husbands) and female circumcision, as well as the spirit of rational inquiry and a belief in the sanctity of each human life, are products of cultural attachments of different kinds.  Those who practiced suttee, or who believe that women who commit adultery should be stoned to death, do not believe there is anything bad about these practices, any more than those who practice rational inquiry under conditions of freedom think there is anything wrong with that.&#8221;</p>
<p>We&#8217;re talking about taking core Western values, which at this very moment are rapidly being exported to the rest of the world, and turning them on their heads.</p>
<p>Just imagine the guy who takes the subway being held in higher esteem than the guy who tools around in his new Jaguar convertible coup, the guy who lives in a little 600 sq. ft. apartment having more prestige than the guy who rambles around in his 5000 sq. ft. McMansion, thermostats set at a perfect 70 degrees 365 days a year.</p>
<p>It just ain&#8217;t gonna happen without a tremendous amount of pain.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/rise-of-neo-malthusians.html#comment-6966</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-rise-of-the-neo-malthusians/#comment-6966</guid>
		<description>Not surprisingly, us DFHs are not beloved for pointing out the obvious, and then reminding people that &quot;see, we were right!&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Criticize Costello for failing to edit his piece, but don&#039;t criticize the concept.  Peak Oil is not some wacky hippie theory.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The good news is that the younger generation appears to understand the interconnectiveness of everything.  Witness the youthful enthusiasm for Obama.  I wish them well.  They&#039;re going to need all the help they can get.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;weinerdog43</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not surprisingly, us DFHs are not beloved for pointing out the obvious, and then reminding people that &#8220;see, we were right!&#8221;</p>
<p>Criticize Costello for failing to edit his piece, but don&#8217;t criticize the concept.  Peak Oil is not some wacky hippie theory.</p>
<p>The good news is that the younger generation appears to understand the interconnectiveness of everything.  Witness the youthful enthusiasm for Obama.  I wish them well.  They&#8217;re going to need all the help they can get.</p>
<p>weinerdog43</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/rise-of-neo-malthusians.html#comment-6960</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-rise-of-the-neo-malthusians/#comment-6960</guid>
		<description>The greatest change in post WW2 America is the&lt;br/&gt;creation of a vast infrastructure of workplaces, &lt;br/&gt;homes and shopping centers separated by significant distances, and  connected by roads and cars.  &lt;br/&gt;This infrastructure was built on $2 oil, over which the nominal owners (gulf states) exercised no control.&lt;br/&gt;That infrastructure is what is becoming obsolete. &lt;br/&gt;The older village, town and city model, which still exists alongside the more recent suburban form, will slowly have to grow as the latter shrinks.  But at what a cost!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The greatest change in post WW2 America is the<br />creation of a vast infrastructure of workplaces, <br />homes and shopping centers separated by significant distances, and  connected by roads and cars.  <br />This infrastructure was built on $2 oil, over which the nominal owners (gulf states) exercised no control.<br />That infrastructure is what is becoming obsolete. <br />The older village, town and city model, which still exists alongside the more recent suburban form, will slowly have to grow as the latter shrinks.  But at what a cost!</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/rise-of-neo-malthusians.html#comment-6958</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/the-rise-of-the-neo-malthusians/#comment-6958</guid>
		<description>Costello continues a too long tradition of trying to solve contemporary issues by insisting on the role of locality and citizen.  Both, of course, are powerful ideas we need to revitalize.  But revitalizing them are more likely to happen by expanding on the actively shared roles of employee/executive, consumer and investor than by attempting to cram more &#039;work&#039; into already overly busy lives through &#039;citizen action&#039;.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If people in their roles of employees/executives acted to make sure their organizations -- private, public and non-profit -- served other people in their role of consumer/investor in a manner consistent with the golden rule (i.e. do unto others....), then we&#039;d make more pragmatic progress toward insuring that every organization&#039;s success contributed to the safety, sanity and sustainability of the planet.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But this is not what happens today.  Instead, we have private sector organizations, lemming-like, pursuing idolatry of &#039;free markets&#039; and shareholder value fundamentalism.  Look at the earlier post of stock market drops for signing onto profit-generating conservation measures.  We live in a world of ideology.  Only &#039;we&#039; can take responsibility for changing that. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But, first we must understand when we are a real &#039;we&#039; capable of concerted, purposeful action.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;That happens in the &#039;we&#039;s&#039; of organizations -- not the &#039;we&#039;s&#039; of place/locality.  And it happens mostly in our shared role of &#039;employee/executive&#039; as opposed to the shared idea of &#039;citizen&#039;.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The idealism in Costello&#039;s prescriptions arise because he fails to account for our shared reality and how various &#039;we&#039;s&#039; can and must act in it.  His objectives are spot on.  His recomended means will not happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Costello continues a too long tradition of trying to solve contemporary issues by insisting on the role of locality and citizen.  Both, of course, are powerful ideas we need to revitalize.  But revitalizing them are more likely to happen by expanding on the actively shared roles of employee/executive, consumer and investor than by attempting to cram more &#8216;work&#8217; into already overly busy lives through &#8216;citizen action&#8217;.</p>
<p>If people in their roles of employees/executives acted to make sure their organizations &#8212; private, public and non-profit &#8212; served other people in their role of consumer/investor in a manner consistent with the golden rule (i.e. do unto others&#8230;.), then we&#8217;d make more pragmatic progress toward insuring that every organization&#8217;s success contributed to the safety, sanity and sustainability of the planet.</p>
<p>But this is not what happens today.  Instead, we have private sector organizations, lemming-like, pursuing idolatry of &#8216;free markets&#8217; and shareholder value fundamentalism.  Look at the earlier post of stock market drops for signing onto profit-generating conservation measures.  We live in a world of ideology.  Only &#8216;we&#8217; can take responsibility for changing that. </p>
<p>But, first we must understand when we are a real &#8216;we&#8217; capable of concerted, purposeful action.</p>
<p>That happens in the &#8216;we&#8217;s&#8217; of organizations &#8212; not the &#8216;we&#8217;s&#8217; of place/locality.  And it happens mostly in our shared role of &#8216;employee/executive&#8217; as opposed to the shared idea of &#8216;citizen&#8217;.</p>
<p>The idealism in Costello&#8217;s prescriptions arise because he fails to account for our shared reality and how various &#8216;we&#8217;s&#8217; can and must act in it.  His objectives are spot on.  His recomended means will not happen.</p>
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