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	<title>Comments on: Desperate Measures: India Closes Soyabean Oil, Potatoes Exchanges to Fight Inflation</title>
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		<title>By: Richard Kline</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes.html#comment-7781</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Kline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 07:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes-soyabean-oil-potatoes-exchanges-to-fight-inflation/#comment-7781</guid>
		<description>Yo Aaron K., we&#039;re thinking alike on this one, yessir.  Western Central Bankers have pushed &#039;liquidity&#039; into financial markets---but it&#039;s pooled at the top, not trickeled down into the debt markets.  That liquidity is acquired a real neg rates, plus it&#039;s acquirers are paying interest back to the Central Banks to have the use of it at all:  doing nothing just loses Big Finance dough in a situation where they _must_ get return in excess of their capital cost.  The flow to &#039;hard assets&#039; seems a real, necessary, and all but desperate process, although these latecomers are just following hedgies and private wealth folks who&#039;ve made the same play for awhile and who will get most of the gains.  That the speculative buying of demand-driven commodities only builds momentum works well, if you&#039;re a speculator and if you sell your future while the slingshot is accelerating. Oh BTW, inflationary loose money policies of _some_ central banks narrows the asset range that hot spec dough can throw itself at with prospect of making bread.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I  have no love for speculators at all, and their acts are not benign, but misapplied central banking to flood equity when we have a solvency issue is the floor of the elevator which keeps rising under spec prices.  To me, anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yo Aaron K., we&#8217;re thinking alike on this one, yessir.  Western Central Bankers have pushed &#8216;liquidity&#8217; into financial markets&#8212;but it&#8217;s pooled at the top, not trickeled down into the debt markets.  That liquidity is acquired a real neg rates, plus it&#8217;s acquirers are paying interest back to the Central Banks to have the use of it at all:  doing nothing just loses Big Finance dough in a situation where they _must_ get return in excess of their capital cost.  The flow to &#8216;hard assets&#8217; seems a real, necessary, and all but desperate process, although these latecomers are just following hedgies and private wealth folks who&#8217;ve made the same play for awhile and who will get most of the gains.  That the speculative buying of demand-driven commodities only builds momentum works well, if you&#8217;re a speculator and if you sell your future while the slingshot is accelerating. Oh BTW, inflationary loose money policies of _some_ central banks narrows the asset range that hot spec dough can throw itself at with prospect of making bread.  </p>
<p>I  have no love for speculators at all, and their acts are not benign, but misapplied central banking to flood equity when we have a solvency issue is the floor of the elevator which keeps rising under spec prices.  To me, anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Krowne</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes.html#comment-7761</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Krowne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 22:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes-soyabean-oil-potatoes-exchanges-to-fight-inflation/#comment-7761</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know what Engdahl is smoking.  &lt;i&gt;Nearly everyone&lt;/i&gt; believes that commodities prices are almost purely speculation.  How then can there be much of a bubble?  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;To me this looks like a belated flight-to-hard-assets, now being fuelled at a fantastic rate due to prevailing negative real interest rates (especially in the US).   At least, rates available to high-powered money.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The problem of policy here is those interest rates.  The exchanges are working just fine in response to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know what Engdahl is smoking.  <i>Nearly everyone</i> believes that commodities prices are almost purely speculation.  How then can there be much of a bubble?  </p>
<p>To me this looks like a belated flight-to-hard-assets, now being fuelled at a fantastic rate due to prevailing negative real interest rates (especially in the US).   At least, rates available to high-powered money.</p>
<p>The problem of policy here is those interest rates.  The exchanges are working just fine in response to them.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes.html#comment-7753</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 19:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes-soyabean-oil-potatoes-exchanges-to-fight-inflation/#comment-7753</guid>
		<description>Nobody really knows whether commodity prices are rising because of supply/demand issues or speculation. Let&#039;s see if it works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody really knows whether commodity prices are rising because of supply/demand issues or speculation. Let&#8217;s see if it works.</p>
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		<title>By: S</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes.html#comment-7752</link>
		<dc:creator>S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 19:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes-soyabean-oil-potatoes-exchanges-to-fight-inflation/#comment-7752</guid>
		<description>Interesting that the historical relationship between oiol and dollar is breaking down as the dollar rallies and FT runs headline that US/Europe commited to stronger $. Also interesting that Gold is finding no traction to the upside, despite worsening inflation seemingly everywhere? It was clear the G5-7 was going to attack the dollar bears but what happens when the traditional relationships break. Intended consequences vs. unintended consequences. Seems a timely question these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that the historical relationship between oiol and dollar is breaking down as the dollar rallies and FT runs headline that US/Europe commited to stronger $. Also interesting that Gold is finding no traction to the upside, despite worsening inflation seemingly everywhere? It was clear the G5-7 was going to attack the dollar bears but what happens when the traditional relationships break. Intended consequences vs. unintended consequences. Seems a timely question these days.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes.html#comment-7749</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 17:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes-soyabean-oil-potatoes-exchanges-to-fight-inflation/#comment-7749</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Chickpeas futures surged 89 percent in the past 12 months on the National Commodities exchange, while rubber rose 41 percent and soybean oil advanced 21 percent in the period.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;That kind of price increase is speculative -- especially for chickpeas. To me it does indeed appear that speculators, looking towards inflationary hedges, are creating a self fulfilling prophecy that has no referent to the underlying good being traded. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Note also that the volumes and prices in other less traded futures immediately surged after the ban. That&#039;s immediate evidence of speculative funds and not a sudden increase in demand for these other underlying commodities. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Too much speculative capital has been distorting markets -- real estate, lending, etc... -- all over the world. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Too much new capital, the $500B that the FED swapped for illiquid securities, the $100B from the BOE, plus the ECB&#039;s contribution (don&#039;t remember the number offhand) have created a huge pool of capital looking for a home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Chickpeas futures surged 89 percent in the past 12 months on the National Commodities exchange, while rubber rose 41 percent and soybean oil advanced 21 percent in the period.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>That kind of price increase is speculative &#8212; especially for chickpeas. To me it does indeed appear that speculators, looking towards inflationary hedges, are creating a self fulfilling prophecy that has no referent to the underlying good being traded. </p>
<p>Note also that the volumes and prices in other less traded futures immediately surged after the ban. That&#8217;s immediate evidence of speculative funds and not a sudden increase in demand for these other underlying commodities. </p>
<p>Too much speculative capital has been distorting markets &#8212; real estate, lending, etc&#8230; &#8212; all over the world. </p>
<p>Too much new capital, the $500B that the FED swapped for illiquid securities, the $100B from the BOE, plus the ECB&#8217;s contribution (don&#8217;t remember the number offhand) have created a huge pool of capital looking for a home.</p>
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		<title>By: HBL</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes.html#comment-7748</link>
		<dc:creator>HBL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 17:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes-soyabean-oil-potatoes-exchanges-to-fight-inflation/#comment-7748</guid>
		<description>Yves, I&#039;d be interested in your take on this article (I&#039;m not sure how credible it is):&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;PERHAPS 60% OF TODAY&#039;S OIL PRICE IS PURE SPECULATION&lt;br/&gt;http://financialsense.com/editorials/engdahl/2008/0502.html&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In my opinion, there is clearly a widespread bubble mentality with respect to oil and other commodities -- i.e., long term trends of increasing demand and diminishing supply are used to justify any increase in prices as sustainable, no matter how dramatic. I realize that near-vertical supply and demand curves as well as other non-bubble dynamics can explain sharp price increases, but the pervasiveness of this do-not-question-it mentality seems to make a bubble likely (now or in the future) in any market where the mechanics of exchange and inventory make it feasible.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Has anyone seen attempts at predicting consequences if commodities ARE in a huge bubble? i.e., if peaking speculative interest and a demand shock cause oil prices to drop in half over a period of months, the impacts on agriculture commodity prices, US trade deficit, currencies, etc seem likely to be quite dramatic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yves, I&#8217;d be interested in your take on this article (I&#8217;m not sure how credible it is):</p>
<p>PERHAPS 60% OF TODAY&#8217;S OIL PRICE IS PURE SPECULATION<br /><a href="http://financialsense.com/editorials/engdahl/2008/0502.html" rel="nofollow">http://financialsense.com/editorials/engdahl/2008/0502.html</a></p>
<p>In my opinion, there is clearly a widespread bubble mentality with respect to oil and other commodities &#8212; i.e., long term trends of increasing demand and diminishing supply are used to justify any increase in prices as sustainable, no matter how dramatic. I realize that near-vertical supply and demand curves as well as other non-bubble dynamics can explain sharp price increases, but the pervasiveness of this do-not-question-it mentality seems to make a bubble likely (now or in the future) in any market where the mechanics of exchange and inventory make it feasible.</p>
<p>Has anyone seen attempts at predicting consequences if commodities ARE in a huge bubble? i.e., if peaking speculative interest and a demand shock cause oil prices to drop in half over a period of months, the impacts on agriculture commodity prices, US trade deficit, currencies, etc seem likely to be quite dramatic.</p>
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		<title>By: shargash</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes.html#comment-7732</link>
		<dc:creator>shargash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 13:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes-soyabean-oil-potatoes-exchanges-to-fight-inflation/#comment-7732</guid>
		<description>This is a back door attempt at price control, and it will have the same effect as other forms of price control: hoarding, shortages, and extreme volatility on the spot market. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The &quot;observers&quot; mentioned in the article are correct:  prices are being driven by fundamentals. Speculators don&#039;t drive commodity prices, they anticipate them. They are, however, convenient scapegoats for governments trying to duck responsibility, the public who wants to blame someone, and analysts who don&#039;t understand the fundamentals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a back door attempt at price control, and it will have the same effect as other forms of price control: hoarding, shortages, and extreme volatility on the spot market. </p>
<p>The &#8220;observers&#8221; mentioned in the article are correct:  prices are being driven by fundamentals. Speculators don&#8217;t drive commodity prices, they anticipate them. They are, however, convenient scapegoats for governments trying to duck responsibility, the public who wants to blame someone, and analysts who don&#8217;t understand the fundamentals.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Bittrolff</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes.html#comment-7731</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Bittrolff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 13:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes-soyabean-oil-potatoes-exchanges-to-fight-inflation/#comment-7731</guid>
		<description>Haha. It would be funny if it weren&#039;t so sad.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Prices are a hugely valuable signal. Economies and economic agents NEED crisp, clean, reliable and current prices to effectively allocate the means of production and capital.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Preventing the financial markets from pricing these goods does nothing to change the real supply and demand situation on the ground and most definately does not prevent inflation.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As always, central banks and loose monetary policy is the cause and capitalism takes the blame. Capitalism is the ultimate scape goat.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;TheFinancialNinja</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha. It would be funny if it weren&#8217;t so sad.</p>
<p>Prices are a hugely valuable signal. Economies and economic agents NEED crisp, clean, reliable and current prices to effectively allocate the means of production and capital.</p>
<p>Preventing the financial markets from pricing these goods does nothing to change the real supply and demand situation on the ground and most definately does not prevent inflation.</p>
<p>As always, central banks and loose monetary policy is the cause and capitalism takes the blame. Capitalism is the ultimate scape goat.</p>
<p>TheFinancialNinja</p>
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		<title>By: barbadkatte</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes.html#comment-7730</link>
		<dc:creator>barbadkatte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 13:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes-soyabean-oil-potatoes-exchanges-to-fight-inflation/#comment-7730</guid>
		<description>The ban is more to demonstrate that the Government is concerned about inflation, rather than any hope of getting the prices down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ban is more to demonstrate that the Government is concerned about inflation, rather than any hope of getting the prices down.</p>
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		<title>By: foesskewered</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes.html#comment-7728</link>
		<dc:creator>foesskewered</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 13:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/desperate-measures-india-closes-soyabean-oil-potatoes-exchanges-to-fight-inflation/#comment-7728</guid>
		<description>Saw that on bloomberg yesterday. But what&#039;s the alternative? Private deals?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saw that on bloomberg yesterday. But what&#8217;s the alternative? Private deals?!</p>
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