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	<title>Comments on: From Imperialists to Third World?</title>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/from-imperialists-to-third-world.html#comment-8987</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Re: global warming, anthropogenic&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Many of us do take science seriously.  What we categorically refuse to take seriously is watermelon politics (green on the outside, red on the inside) masquerading as science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: global warming, anthropogenic</p>
<p>Many of us do take science seriously.  What we categorically refuse to take seriously is watermelon politics (green on the outside, red on the inside) masquerading as science.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/from-imperialists-to-third-world.html#comment-8802</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 17:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>We&#039;re actually shrinking relative to the rest of the world!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Hat tip, Economist&#039;s View:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Economist traces height trends, by Tom Hundley, Chicago Tribune: When John Komlos wants to take the measure of a nation&#039;s economic well-being, he doesn&#039;t check its gross domestic product or consumer price index. He ignores ... unemployment figures. Instead, Komlos takes a look at how tall its people have grown.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    &quot;Height is a very good overall indicator of how well the human organism thrives in its socioeconomic environment,&quot; he explained.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Komlos, a professor in the economics department at the University of Munich, Germany, has dedicated his professional life to the study of anthropometric history—his own coinage for the academic field that studies the links between a population&#039;s height and general well-being.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    What Komlos has learned is that Americans, despite their nation&#039;s prosperity, abundance of food and cutting-edge medical technology, stopped getting taller in the 1950s and have now been passed by their European cousins.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    &quot;Americans were head and shoulders above Europeans in the 18th Century, and it stayed that way for two centuries,&quot; he said. &quot;Now it&#039;s the other way around.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    This, according to Komlos, suggests that Europeans eat better, have better access to health care and enjoy a more equitable distribution of national wealth. They will almost certainly live longer than their American counterparts. ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re actually shrinking relative to the rest of the world!</p>
<p>Hat tip, Economist&#8217;s View:</p>
<p>    Economist traces height trends, by Tom Hundley, Chicago Tribune: When John Komlos wants to take the measure of a nation&#8217;s economic well-being, he doesn&#8217;t check its gross domestic product or consumer price index. He ignores &#8230; unemployment figures. Instead, Komlos takes a look at how tall its people have grown.</p>
<p>    &#8220;Height is a very good overall indicator of how well the human organism thrives in its socioeconomic environment,&#8221; he explained.</p>
<p>    Komlos, a professor in the economics department at the University of Munich, Germany, has dedicated his professional life to the study of anthropometric history—his own coinage for the academic field that studies the links between a population&#8217;s height and general well-being.</p>
<p>    What Komlos has learned is that Americans, despite their nation&#8217;s prosperity, abundance of food and cutting-edge medical technology, stopped getting taller in the 1950s and have now been passed by their European cousins.</p>
<p>    &#8220;Americans were head and shoulders above Europeans in the 18th Century, and it stayed that way for two centuries,&#8221; he said. &#8220;Now it&#8217;s the other way around.&#8221;</p>
<p>    This, according to Komlos, suggests that Europeans eat better, have better access to health care and enjoy a more equitable distribution of national wealth. They will almost certainly live longer than their American counterparts. &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Francois</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/from-imperialists-to-third-world.html#comment-8788</link>
		<dc:creator>Francois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 07:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/from-imperialists-to-third-world/#comment-8788</guid>
		<description>Whether the US stay in the 1st world, or slide into the 2nd or 3rd remain to be seen. That said, several signs point to a deterioration of the preeminence of America.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;1) Neglect of its physical infrastructure, be it transportation, water systems (the Philadelphia one hasn&#039;t had a major overhaul in 120 years!) bridges etc. If there is no will to invest in ourselves, what does that tell us about our priorities?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;2) The overreaching influence of money in politics is reaching worrisome levels. As an example, when a  publication like the WSJ write an article like &quot;Is Justice For Sale?&quot;, it should be time for a serious debate, no?&lt;br/&gt;As for the extreme partisanship that is poisoning any attempt to solve problems, we have yet to see the end of it.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;3) As Anon @ 1:31 noted: &quot;We are not even bound together by an agreement to take science seriously anymore&quot; For a country that pride itself on creativity and technological innovation...such an attitude cannot bode well for the future. You just CAN&#039;T have technology development without a robust sector in fundamental scientific research. Not going to happen.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;4) The financial sector has captured an ever-rising share of the market profits. It is far from clear (at least to me) that it have been used to promote re-investment in the country at large.&lt;br/&gt;A financial sector that has also benefited from extraordinary regulatory leniency and favorable treatment from the politicians. Judging by where we stand now with the so-called sub-prime and credit crisis, one has the right to wonder if such treatment was not ill-advised.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;5) The parabolic rise in income inequality has yet to demonstrate any tangible benefits for the population at large. There seems to be a huge dam of isolation, self-serving justification and class isolation (&quot;we deserve everything we got, and then some&quot;) preventing the long-awaited trickle down.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;6) The decline of the middle class is not what anyone would expect from a country that pretend to have a policy of  economic sustainability and growth. When more and more people feel they do not have a stake in the distribution of wealth , why should they fully participate and contribute?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;7) Finally, the CDC publish a very disturbing report showing for the first time in six decades, an increase in mortality AND a decrease in life expectancy, in women from low socioeconomic status across a sample of 1,000 counties. This is very important because such indicators are prime markers of the overall health of the population. Note that this observation is unique to the US among developed countries. Hardly encouraging stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether the US stay in the 1st world, or slide into the 2nd or 3rd remain to be seen. That said, several signs point to a deterioration of the preeminence of America.</p>
<p>1) Neglect of its physical infrastructure, be it transportation, water systems (the Philadelphia one hasn&#8217;t had a major overhaul in 120 years!) bridges etc. If there is no will to invest in ourselves, what does that tell us about our priorities?</p>
<p>2) The overreaching influence of money in politics is reaching worrisome levels. As an example, when a  publication like the WSJ write an article like &#8220;Is Justice For Sale?&#8221;, it should be time for a serious debate, no?<br />As for the extreme partisanship that is poisoning any attempt to solve problems, we have yet to see the end of it.</p>
<p>3) As Anon @ 1:31 noted: &#8220;We are not even bound together by an agreement to take science seriously anymore&#8221; For a country that pride itself on creativity and technological innovation&#8230;such an attitude cannot bode well for the future. You just CAN&#8217;T have technology development without a robust sector in fundamental scientific research. Not going to happen.</p>
<p>4) The financial sector has captured an ever-rising share of the market profits. It is far from clear (at least to me) that it have been used to promote re-investment in the country at large.<br />A financial sector that has also benefited from extraordinary regulatory leniency and favorable treatment from the politicians. Judging by where we stand now with the so-called sub-prime and credit crisis, one has the right to wonder if such treatment was not ill-advised.</p>
<p>5) The parabolic rise in income inequality has yet to demonstrate any tangible benefits for the population at large. There seems to be a huge dam of isolation, self-serving justification and class isolation (&#8221;we deserve everything we got, and then some&#8221;) preventing the long-awaited trickle down.</p>
<p>6) The decline of the middle class is not what anyone would expect from a country that pretend to have a policy of  economic sustainability and growth. When more and more people feel they do not have a stake in the distribution of wealth , why should they fully participate and contribute?</p>
<p>7) Finally, the CDC publish a very disturbing report showing for the first time in six decades, an increase in mortality AND a decrease in life expectancy, in women from low socioeconomic status across a sample of 1,000 counties. This is very important because such indicators are prime markers of the overall health of the population. Note that this observation is unique to the US among developed countries. Hardly encouraging stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/from-imperialists-to-third-world.html#comment-8786</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 02:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>whoops ... without rancor</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>whoops &#8230; without rancor</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/from-imperialists-to-third-world.html#comment-8785</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 02:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think we can safely say, with rancor, &quot;they&quot; are spending our &quot;money&quot;.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Free trade, yea right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we can safely say, with rancor, &#8220;they&#8221; are spending our &#8220;money&#8221;.</p>
<p>Free trade, yea right.</p>
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		<title>By: mara</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/from-imperialists-to-third-world.html#comment-8782</link>
		<dc:creator>mara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 22:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;There is no reason they should not continue to prosper in a world where power is more evenly spread. Globalisation need not be a zero-sum game. But if the west is going to adapt, it must recognise that it can no longer expect to write the rules.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think the problem is that the elite currently enjoying the ill-gotten gains from the yoked billions of earth are probably not going to be too keen on changing anything.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The key is getting them to walk away from this current operating basis without blasting large numbers of people or countries to oblivion, financially or physically. I don&#039;t doubt the ability of the avg person to do fine in an equitable sharing of power. In fact, I think it would be better than today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There is no reason they should not continue to prosper in a world where power is more evenly spread. Globalisation need not be a zero-sum game. But if the west is going to adapt, it must recognise that it can no longer expect to write the rules.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think the problem is that the elite currently enjoying the ill-gotten gains from the yoked billions of earth are probably not going to be too keen on changing anything.</p>
<p>The key is getting them to walk away from this current operating basis without blasting large numbers of people or countries to oblivion, financially or physically. I don&#8217;t doubt the ability of the avg person to do fine in an equitable sharing of power. In fact, I think it would be better than today.</p>
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		<title>By: Lune</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/from-imperialists-to-third-world.html#comment-8779</link>
		<dc:creator>Lune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 21:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dan-&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;While I agree that the U.S. is unlikely to join the &quot;third world&quot; anytime soon, its place of unrivalled dominance is at an end. Moreover, most of the &quot;third world&quot; has caught up to the first world (with the exception of Africa). Much of the world&#039;s investment in infrastructure, education, industrialization, etc. is now taking place in Asia. Just compare the gleaming new airports of Asia with most &quot;first world&quot; airports, or the extensive broadband infrastructure of Japan and Korea with most U.S. cities, or the education provided to kids in India vs. the best private schools in the U.S. I suspect that you&#039;ll be surprised by how much the difference has been narrowed (or even reversed) in the past few decades.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But whether you believe the U.S. will descend to the third world, or the third world will ascend to the first, the difference is not merely a difference in degree (i.e. a few more seats at the IMF and the UN). It will be a difference in kind (i.e. fundamental shifts in power and geopolitical balance, necessitating new diplomatic and foreign policy directions). And that is what the Western powers fail to recognize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan-</p>
<p>While I agree that the U.S. is unlikely to join the &#8220;third world&#8221; anytime soon, its place of unrivalled dominance is at an end. Moreover, most of the &#8220;third world&#8221; has caught up to the first world (with the exception of Africa). Much of the world&#8217;s investment in infrastructure, education, industrialization, etc. is now taking place in Asia. Just compare the gleaming new airports of Asia with most &#8220;first world&#8221; airports, or the extensive broadband infrastructure of Japan and Korea with most U.S. cities, or the education provided to kids in India vs. the best private schools in the U.S. I suspect that you&#8217;ll be surprised by how much the difference has been narrowed (or even reversed) in the past few decades.</p>
<p>But whether you believe the U.S. will descend to the third world, or the third world will ascend to the first, the difference is not merely a difference in degree (i.e. a few more seats at the IMF and the UN). It will be a difference in kind (i.e. fundamental shifts in power and geopolitical balance, necessitating new diplomatic and foreign policy directions). And that is what the Western powers fail to recognize.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/from-imperialists-to-third-world.html#comment-8778</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 21:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Mara said:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;When you look at it that way, you may find a lot more places aren&#039;t as fabulous as billed.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;When you look at it that way, you may  find yourself saying &quot;I resemble that.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mara said:</p>
<p>&#8220;When you look at it that way, you may find a lot more places aren&#8217;t as fabulous as billed.&#8221;</p>
<p>When you look at it that way, you may  find yourself saying &#8220;I resemble that.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mara</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/from-imperialists-to-third-world.html#comment-8777</link>
		<dc:creator>Mara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 20:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I will put in my 2 cents about the concept &quot;Third World&quot;. You may think, no plumbing and unsanitary. Well, that&#039;s one aspect. More generically, imagine your nice house and plumbing, but a busted public works system, bankrupted or hyperinflated out of existence. You can have all the pipe in the world, but if it doesn&#039;t go anywhere...you get the idea. Same for the garbage man never showing up. Other characteristics of Third World are: a small elite, controlling most of the prime resources and wealth of the country; a non-democratic gov&#039;t or sham-vote democracy, perpetuating a familial or tight group rotation as leader/generalissimo; poor civil rights; bribery/payoffs to get work done, contracts approved, political favors, etc; no public schools, or ones of such poor quality or limited scope that private schooling is vital to true education; a proportionally large amount of GDP invested in military activities; suppression/scapegoating of minority ethnic or religious groups; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;When you look at it that way, you may find a lot more places aren&#039;t as fabulous as billed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will put in my 2 cents about the concept &#8220;Third World&#8221;. You may think, no plumbing and unsanitary. Well, that&#8217;s one aspect. More generically, imagine your nice house and plumbing, but a busted public works system, bankrupted or hyperinflated out of existence. You can have all the pipe in the world, but if it doesn&#8217;t go anywhere&#8230;you get the idea. Same for the garbage man never showing up. Other characteristics of Third World are: a small elite, controlling most of the prime resources and wealth of the country; a non-democratic gov&#8217;t or sham-vote democracy, perpetuating a familial or tight group rotation as leader/generalissimo; poor civil rights; bribery/payoffs to get work done, contracts approved, political favors, etc; no public schools, or ones of such poor quality or limited scope that private schooling is vital to true education; a proportionally large amount of GDP invested in military activities; suppression/scapegoating of minority ethnic or religious groups; </p>
<p>When you look at it that way, you may find a lot more places aren&#8217;t as fabulous as billed.</p>
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		<title>By: S</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/from-imperialists-to-third-world.html#comment-8776</link>
		<dc:creator>S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>well said...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;anon I would argue the contrary. The erosion of values coming out of the free love (myself) generation has resulted in a general lowering of the bar across virtually every segment of society, whether it is parental controls, education standards, personal standards, professional ethics etc. Call it a race to the bottom or whatever you want. Imperialism turned globalization merley embodies the process. The political defense of the incumbant structures should be expected, whcih is to say not belived.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well said&#8230;</p>
<p>anon I would argue the contrary. The erosion of values coming out of the free love (myself) generation has resulted in a general lowering of the bar across virtually every segment of society, whether it is parental controls, education standards, personal standards, professional ethics etc. Call it a race to the bottom or whatever you want. Imperialism turned globalization merley embodies the process. The political defense of the incumbant structures should be expected, whcih is to say not belived.</p>
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