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	<title>Comments on: Voters Around the World Unhappy With Income Disparity</title>
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		<title>By: jeff65</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-world-unhappy-with-income.html#comment-8302</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff65</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 21:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-the-world-unhappy-with-income-disparity/#comment-8302</guid>
		<description>Anon of 10:28AM,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You may not have noticed I said &quot;If we&#039;re going to have wealth redistribution...&quot;  The rest was sort of tongue in cheek, though there is acknowledgement that &quot;trickle up&quot; works: the rebate checks.  &quot;Trickle down&quot; is what we mostly get because big companies would prefer the money to go straight into their coffers rather than having to compete for it in the marketplace.  Is that capitalism?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;d wager a million US pesos that were all wealth redistribution to stop, the loudest hissing would be right at the top of the capitalist food chain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon of 10:28AM,</p>
<p>You may not have noticed I said &#8220;If we&#8217;re going to have wealth redistribution&#8230;&#8221;  The rest was sort of tongue in cheek, though there is acknowledgement that &#8220;trickle up&#8221; works: the rebate checks.  &#8220;Trickle down&#8221; is what we mostly get because big companies would prefer the money to go straight into their coffers rather than having to compete for it in the marketplace.  Is that capitalism?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d wager a million US pesos that were all wealth redistribution to stop, the loudest hissing would be right at the top of the capitalist food chain.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-world-unhappy-with-income.html#comment-8288</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 14:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-the-world-unhappy-with-income-disparity/#comment-8288</guid>
		<description>I was under the impression that Yves was interested in fostering a discussion of useful regulation intended to improve the performance of capital for the benefit of the most people.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I don&#039;t give a fig that some have gotten uber wealthy.  My concern is whether the majority of everyone else has also improved over a similar time frame.  There is solid data out there to say that, of late, people have not done so.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The question then is what can we do to improve the performance of those who have not benefitted?  Not how much can we rob the top to give to the middle.  Firstly because the &#039;top&#039; never actually gives up much and secondly because those who do get taken to the cleaners are, by definition, those who are most productive.  Not a great way to grow the pie. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Naked Wealth Redistribution is a decent name for a blog, and maybe it should be this one&#039;s.  That it already occurs is not a valid argument in support of more.  It is collectivism, pure and simple.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;m going to follow the advice of some here and steal something from someone else, just to give it to you.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&#039;The distinction between “President of General Motors” and “People’s Minister for Vehicle Production, Great Lakes Region” is one of semantics based on wishful thinking. It’s the entrepreneurs and the productive who take it in the shorts under any form of collectivism.&#039;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So, by all means continue in your re-distributionist fantasies, just remember where it leads you; to an ever shrinking pie.  Oh, and those on the top?  They never go away, why do you think Warren Buffet is an Obama fan?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was under the impression that Yves was interested in fostering a discussion of useful regulation intended to improve the performance of capital for the benefit of the most people.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t give a fig that some have gotten uber wealthy.  My concern is whether the majority of everyone else has also improved over a similar time frame.  There is solid data out there to say that, of late, people have not done so.  </p>
<p>The question then is what can we do to improve the performance of those who have not benefitted?  Not how much can we rob the top to give to the middle.  Firstly because the &#8216;top&#8217; never actually gives up much and secondly because those who do get taken to the cleaners are, by definition, those who are most productive.  Not a great way to grow the pie. </p>
<p>Naked Wealth Redistribution is a decent name for a blog, and maybe it should be this one&#8217;s.  That it already occurs is not a valid argument in support of more.  It is collectivism, pure and simple.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to follow the advice of some here and steal something from someone else, just to give it to you.</p>
<p>&#8216;The distinction between “President of General Motors” and “People’s Minister for Vehicle Production, Great Lakes Region” is one of semantics based on wishful thinking. It’s the entrepreneurs and the productive who take it in the shorts under any form of collectivism.&#8217;</p>
<p>So, by all means continue in your re-distributionist fantasies, just remember where it leads you; to an ever shrinking pie.  Oh, and those on the top?  They never go away, why do you think Warren Buffet is an Obama fan?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-world-unhappy-with-income.html#comment-8274</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 04:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-the-world-unhappy-with-income-disparity/#comment-8274</guid>
		<description>Well said, Jeff. Exactly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, Jeff. Exactly.</p>
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		<title>By: jeff65</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-world-unhappy-with-income.html#comment-8270</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff65</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 01:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-the-world-unhappy-with-income-disparity/#comment-8270</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Wow, judging from that snippet, and many other comments, Yves really needs to rethink the name of this blog.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Which part of the name?  Capitalism?  That is the false name the system gives to itself.  Wealth redistribution by government occurs in both directions and it is not capitalism in either case.  What would the &quot;capitalists&quot; say if their handouts and &quot;corporate rights&quot; stopped and the winners and losers were left entirely up to the marketplace?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If we&#039;re going to have entitlements, why not give them to people instead of companies?  We&#039;ve tried &quot;trickle down&quot;, let&#039;s try &quot;trickle up&quot;!  People spend money - let&#039;s let the companies compete for those dollars instead of taking handouts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Wow, judging from that snippet, and many other comments, Yves really needs to rethink the name of this blog.</i></p>
<p>Which part of the name?  Capitalism?  That is the false name the system gives to itself.  Wealth redistribution by government occurs in both directions and it is not capitalism in either case.  What would the &#8220;capitalists&#8221; say if their handouts and &#8220;corporate rights&#8221; stopped and the winners and losers were left entirely up to the marketplace?</p>
<p>If we&#8217;re going to have entitlements, why not give them to people instead of companies?  We&#8217;ve tried &#8220;trickle down&#8221;, let&#8217;s try &#8220;trickle up&#8221;!  People spend money &#8211; let&#8217;s let the companies compete for those dollars instead of taking handouts.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-world-unhappy-with-income.html#comment-8267</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 22:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-the-world-unhappy-with-income-disparity/#comment-8267</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And why does anyone need...?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Wow, judging from that snippet, and many other comments, Yves really needs to rethink the name of this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And why does anyone need&#8230;?</i></p>
<p>Wow, judging from that snippet, and many other comments, Yves really needs to rethink the name of this blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-world-unhappy-with-income.html#comment-8262</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 20:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-the-world-unhappy-with-income-disparity/#comment-8262</guid>
		<description>There needs to be a way for nations to unite in taxing the super rich and the mega-corporasaurs, otherwise they will just move to the nearest tax haven.  In fact, it&#039;s already happening.  They have no allegience to anything or anyone but money.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;CathyG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There needs to be a way for nations to unite in taxing the super rich and the mega-corporasaurs, otherwise they will just move to the nearest tax haven.  In fact, it&#8217;s already happening.  They have no allegience to anything or anyone but money.</p>
<p>CathyG</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-world-unhappy-with-income.html#comment-8259</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 17:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-the-world-unhappy-with-income-disparity/#comment-8259</guid>
		<description>You cannot &quot;retrain&quot; your way out of a obviousy unfair system of ever-collapsing wages.   An oligarchy has its own logic and no amount of individual action or gumption can overthrow it. The only solutions are political, not economic. &quot;Revolution&quot; could take many forms.  There is a limit to how much financial stress people will bear willingly.  The recent phenomena of &quot;walk-aways&quot; and the street protest in Antioch, California (foreclosed homeowners leading a march on banks) shows that to some extent, a debtor society depends on the consent of the indebted.  Without debtor&#039;s prison, people may simply choose to defy the law en masse--and considering how the decks/debts are stacked against them, who can blame them? There aren&#039;t enough collection agencies to harass a hundred million people into obediently going to their low-wage McJobs and accepting hard-working slow starvation. The super-rich have allowed their fantastic greed to blind them to the long term explosiveness of their own system. They are trying to impose what is essentially feudalism on modern people who have at least a high school education.  It will not work.  And why does anyone need twenty billion dollars anyway?  Most people, I believe,can hobble along quite nicely with twenty million. So the mega-financiers &#039;enjoy&#039; collecting vast sums. Great! Let them play with monopoly money! There is no rational reason on heaven or earth to let a few thousand crazed people drive the rest of us into economic, social, and ecological extinction. They have to play fair or go sit in time out. And that isn&#039;t Marxism ... it&#039;s Momism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You cannot &#8220;retrain&#8221; your way out of a obviousy unfair system of ever-collapsing wages.   An oligarchy has its own logic and no amount of individual action or gumption can overthrow it. The only solutions are political, not economic. &#8220;Revolution&#8221; could take many forms.  There is a limit to how much financial stress people will bear willingly.  The recent phenomena of &#8220;walk-aways&#8221; and the street protest in Antioch, California (foreclosed homeowners leading a march on banks) shows that to some extent, a debtor society depends on the consent of the indebted.  Without debtor&#8217;s prison, people may simply choose to defy the law en masse&#8211;and considering how the decks/debts are stacked against them, who can blame them? There aren&#8217;t enough collection agencies to harass a hundred million people into obediently going to their low-wage McJobs and accepting hard-working slow starvation. The super-rich have allowed their fantastic greed to blind them to the long term explosiveness of their own system. They are trying to impose what is essentially feudalism on modern people who have at least a high school education.  It will not work.  And why does anyone need twenty billion dollars anyway?  Most people, I believe,can hobble along quite nicely with twenty million. So the mega-financiers &#8216;enjoy&#8217; collecting vast sums. Great! Let them play with monopoly money! There is no rational reason on heaven or earth to let a few thousand crazed people drive the rest of us into economic, social, and ecological extinction. They have to play fair or go sit in time out. And that isn&#8217;t Marxism &#8230; it&#8217;s Momism.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Duncan</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-world-unhappy-with-income.html#comment-8257</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Duncan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 17:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-the-world-unhappy-with-income-disparity/#comment-8257</guid>
		<description>&quot;According to the latest FT/Harris poll, strong majorities in five European countries – ranging from 76 per cent in Spain to 87 per cent in Germany – consider that income inequality is too great.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Any data on the polls leading up to this &quot;significant&quot; latest Harris Poll?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;When was the last time the majority of respondents did NOT consider income equality to be too great?  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;What is meant by the term &quot;too great&quot;, anyway?  Is this just an arbitrary figure...or a bunch of arbitrary figures established by each respondent in accordance with that respondent&#039;s notion of &quot;too great&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;According to the latest FT/Harris poll, strong majorities in five European countries – ranging from 76 per cent in Spain to 87 per cent in Germany – consider that income inequality is too great.&#8221;</p>
<p>Any data on the polls leading up to this &#8220;significant&#8221; latest Harris Poll?</p>
<p>When was the last time the majority of respondents did NOT consider income equality to be too great?  </p>
<p>What is meant by the term &#8220;too great&#8221;, anyway?  Is this just an arbitrary figure&#8230;or a bunch of arbitrary figures established by each respondent in accordance with that respondent&#8217;s notion of &#8220;too great&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-world-unhappy-with-income.html#comment-8256</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 17:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-the-world-unhappy-with-income-disparity/#comment-8256</guid>
		<description>Someone said: &quot;The best way to improve income in-equality is for those in the labor force to lay claim to that which the top possesses...they could do so by improving their skills/abilities and therefore their productivity.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And what skills exactly would those be?  Those skilled in the IT profession have seen their jobs outsourced as readily as those of a punch press operator.  Accountants, customer support representatives and many other white-collar professionals are finding themselves right behind the programmers on a quick trip to the Indian subcontinent, you can be sure.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Many of the retraining suggestions, while a boon for the education industry, are really ludicrous.  &quot;Retrain for the health-related professions&quot;, we&#039;re told.  Yeah, we&#039;re all going to feed our families and put our kids through college changing bedpans, drawing our salaries from a health provider and insurance system that&#039;s already creaking.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The truth is that there are darned few jobs that absolutely cannot be outsourced to someone who will do them more cheaply, especially if the employer doesn&#039;t really understand or care about quality.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;What happened to the idea that those who have money and do create jobs have a moral obligation to the country that supported their climb into the financial stratosphere?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone said: &#8220;The best way to improve income in-equality is for those in the labor force to lay claim to that which the top possesses&#8230;they could do so by improving their skills/abilities and therefore their productivity.&#8221;</p>
<p>And what skills exactly would those be?  Those skilled in the IT profession have seen their jobs outsourced as readily as those of a punch press operator.  Accountants, customer support representatives and many other white-collar professionals are finding themselves right behind the programmers on a quick trip to the Indian subcontinent, you can be sure.</p>
<p>Many of the retraining suggestions, while a boon for the education industry, are really ludicrous.  &#8220;Retrain for the health-related professions&#8221;, we&#8217;re told.  Yeah, we&#8217;re all going to feed our families and put our kids through college changing bedpans, drawing our salaries from a health provider and insurance system that&#8217;s already creaking.</p>
<p>The truth is that there are darned few jobs that absolutely cannot be outsourced to someone who will do them more cheaply, especially if the employer doesn&#8217;t really understand or care about quality.  </p>
<p>What happened to the idea that those who have money and do create jobs have a moral obligation to the country that supported their climb into the financial stratosphere?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/05/voters-around-world-unhappy-with-income.html#comment-8255</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 16:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ardano is really on point.  The best way to improve income in-equality is for those in the labor force to lay claim to that which the top possesses.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Oh sure they can do it by force - through taxation, or revolution - but both are inherently destructive.  Or they could do so by improving their skills/abilities and therefore their productivity.  Then the money must flow their way, unless we get really stupid and start throwing up more regulations/economic barriers like the Europeons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardano is really on point.  The best way to improve income in-equality is for those in the labor force to lay claim to that which the top possesses.  </p>
<p>Oh sure they can do it by force &#8211; through taxation, or revolution &#8211; but both are inherently destructive.  Or they could do so by improving their skills/abilities and therefore their productivity.  Then the money must flow their way, unless we get really stupid and start throwing up more regulations/economic barriers like the Europeons.</p>
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