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	<title>Comments on: Morgan Stanley on Role of Subsidies in Oil Prices</title>
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	<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/06/morgan-stanley-on-role-of-subsidies-in.html</link>
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		<title>By: jesse</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/06/morgan-stanley-on-role-of-subsidies-in.html#comment-9084</link>
		<dc:creator>jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>With all of the talk of price-distortions, it seems like the political expediency of these subsidies gets less attention.  If these subsidies were to be reduced, I can&#039;t imagine any way in which they wouldn&#039;t hit the poorest folk first and hardest - most likely threatening the viability of already precarious ways of life.  When people&#039;s basic survival comes under threat, thats when things can get messy...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With all of the talk of price-distortions, it seems like the political expediency of these subsidies gets less attention.  If these subsidies were to be reduced, I can&#8217;t imagine any way in which they wouldn&#8217;t hit the poorest folk first and hardest &#8211; most likely threatening the viability of already precarious ways of life.  When people&#8217;s basic survival comes under threat, thats when things can get messy&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Juan</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/06/morgan-stanley-on-role-of-subsidies-in.html#comment-9054</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 22:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>anon 11:33 PM,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Well yes, the declining production of benchmark crudes and attendant market narrowing can create greater tension between financially determined prices and number of actual physical transactions.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But, globally, total crude production (as C+C) can at most be said to have been on a roughly two year plateau, not &#039;declining&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anon 11:33 PM,</p>
<p>Well yes, the declining production of benchmark crudes and attendant market narrowing can create greater tension between financially determined prices and number of actual physical transactions.</p>
<p>But, globally, total crude production (as C+C) can at most be said to have been on a roughly two year plateau, not &#8216;declining&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/06/morgan-stanley-on-role-of-subsidies-in.html#comment-9003</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 03:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I suppose declining oil production doesn&#039;t fit into the picture also as the US exports its inflation to all corners of the world along with continuing down an inflation path of its own, the lower dollar value affects the price of oil to the high side as the world is awash in dollars, the predominate payment for barrels of oil. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Forget about seeing $100 a barrel oil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose declining oil production doesn&#8217;t fit into the picture also as the US exports its inflation to all corners of the world along with continuing down an inflation path of its own, the lower dollar value affects the price of oil to the high side as the world is awash in dollars, the predominate payment for barrels of oil. </p>
<p>Forget about seeing $100 a barrel oil.</p>
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		<title>By: Juan</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/06/morgan-stanley-on-role-of-subsidies-in.html#comment-8997</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 01:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>anon 5:48,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Yes, the stimultive aspect of such subsidies is too often ignored.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Have you considered indirect subsidies such as that provided by the house price bubble, or, what trajectory might types of vehicles purchased and fuel use in the U.S. have taken without this? &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Other hand, I remain unconvinced that physical supply/demand has been so determinant as financial effects in the forming of what are &quot;market-related&quot; prices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anon 5:48,</p>
<p>Yes, the stimultive aspect of such subsidies is too often ignored.</p>
<p>Have you considered indirect subsidies such as that provided by the house price bubble, or, what trajectory might types of vehicles purchased and fuel use in the U.S. have taken without this? </p>
<p>Other hand, I remain unconvinced that physical supply/demand has been so determinant as financial effects in the forming of what are &#8220;market-related&#8221; prices.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/06/morgan-stanley-on-role-of-subsidies-in.html#comment-8993</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 21:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Robert,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You really ought to apply to be White House press secretary. An ability to skew facts like that shouldn&#039;t go to waste.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Let&#039;s see, China and India, the two most populous nations on earth, each growing rapidly, subsidize gas prices. But you manage to claim that this is really significantly the doing of oil producing nations and so doesn&#039;t count. Even if all the nations subsidizing domestic purchases happened also to be producers, guess what? If it added up to enough demand in aggregate to make a difference, it would still distort prices.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As to &quot;China doesn&#039;t know what to do with its money&quot; the money coming in is speculative capital inflows. Those create big time inflation.  And they don&#039;t as you imply, go into government coffers.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Subidizing gas is also stimulative. The Chinese are already very worried about inflation but seem unwilling to do what they really need to do, which is  let their currency float. Most observers think they will cut gas subsidies post Olympics, that&#039;s one of the most obvious measures they can take to cool off the economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert,</p>
<p>You really ought to apply to be White House press secretary. An ability to skew facts like that shouldn&#8217;t go to waste.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s see, China and India, the two most populous nations on earth, each growing rapidly, subsidize gas prices. But you manage to claim that this is really significantly the doing of oil producing nations and so doesn&#8217;t count. Even if all the nations subsidizing domestic purchases happened also to be producers, guess what? If it added up to enough demand in aggregate to make a difference, it would still distort prices.</p>
<p>As to &#8220;China doesn&#8217;t know what to do with its money&#8221; the money coming in is speculative capital inflows. Those create big time inflation.  And they don&#8217;t as you imply, go into government coffers.</p>
<p>Subidizing gas is also stimulative. The Chinese are already very worried about inflation but seem unwilling to do what they really need to do, which is  let their currency float. Most observers think they will cut gas subsidies post Olympics, that&#8217;s one of the most obvious measures they can take to cool off the economy.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert McLeod</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/06/morgan-stanley-on-role-of-subsidies-in.html#comment-8989</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 18:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think there&#039;s a failure here to realize that the supermajority of these oil subsidizing countries are either:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A.) Oil-exporters (Saudi Arabi, Russia, Venezula, Iran, etc.)&lt;br/&gt;B.) China&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;How many billions dollars in-flow did China see last month?  They aren&#039;t going to have to stop their subsidies in that situation.  I don&#039;t think the oil exporters are short on cash either.  In fact I would submit that they are short on useful things to do with their money, and subsidizing oil is one way to keep inflation from insane levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there&#8217;s a failure here to realize that the supermajority of these oil subsidizing countries are either:</p>
<p>A.) Oil-exporters (Saudi Arabi, Russia, Venezula, Iran, etc.)<br />B.) China</p>
<p>How many billions dollars in-flow did China see last month?  They aren&#8217;t going to have to stop their subsidies in that situation.  I don&#8217;t think the oil exporters are short on cash either.  In fact I would submit that they are short on useful things to do with their money, and subsidizing oil is one way to keep inflation from insane levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/06/morgan-stanley-on-role-of-subsidies-in.html#comment-8981</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 14:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/06/morgan-stanley-on-role-of-subsidies-in-oil-prices/#comment-8981</guid>
		<description>http://www.minyanville.com/articles/index/a/12646&lt;br/&gt;The Real Story of Goldilocks (As Told By a Bear)&lt;br/&gt;Kevin Depew  Apr 21, 2007 9:27 am</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.minyanville.com/articles/index/a/12646" rel="nofollow">http://www.minyanville.com/articles/index/a/12646</a><br />The Real Story of Goldilocks (As Told By a Bear)<br />Kevin Depew  Apr 21, 2007 9:27 am</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/06/morgan-stanley-on-role-of-subsidies-in.html#comment-8978</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What does the article mean by Goldilocksy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What does the article mean by Goldilocksy</p>
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		<title>By: Independent Accountant</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/06/morgan-stanley-on-role-of-subsidies-in.html#comment-8976</link>
		<dc:creator>Independent Accountant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 12:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have been saying things like this for months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been saying things like this for months.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/06/morgan-stanley-on-role-of-subsidies-in.html#comment-8977</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 12:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It is hard to argue with the logic on subsidies. However, taxes are not subsidies, they are anti-subsidies. The fact that they do not increase, or decrease, with price is irrelevant. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Never one to pass up an opportunity to point out the absurd Fed policy of recent years, the Fed and FCB &quot;put&quot; may be one of the greatest bubble inducing inventions. The CBs provide liquidity for free in the form of negative interest rates, creating a stampede into commodities to avoid corrosive inflation. At the same time, they provide the speculative caboose with the longest possible lever, low margin requirements, and borrowed lever money at subsidized rates. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If that weren&#039;t enough, they rush into frothy markets with emergency rate cuts and bailout packages, slaughtering the short side and promoting the &quot;bull&quot; only club. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Like GW&#039;s Iraq policy, the Fed objectives changes with time and the situation. The initial reason for creating the financial bubbles through easy money policy  was &quot; fighting deflation&quot;. The current reason has morphed into preventing collapse of their favorite children, the easy money speculative crime family banks. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The present was ordained the day Greenspan, Rubin, and Sandi Weil decided over lunch to resurrect the banking trust of yore. Bernanke and company have ensured continuity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is hard to argue with the logic on subsidies. However, taxes are not subsidies, they are anti-subsidies. The fact that they do not increase, or decrease, with price is irrelevant. </p>
<p>Never one to pass up an opportunity to point out the absurd Fed policy of recent years, the Fed and FCB &#8220;put&#8221; may be one of the greatest bubble inducing inventions. The CBs provide liquidity for free in the form of negative interest rates, creating a stampede into commodities to avoid corrosive inflation. At the same time, they provide the speculative caboose with the longest possible lever, low margin requirements, and borrowed lever money at subsidized rates. </p>
<p>If that weren&#8217;t enough, they rush into frothy markets with emergency rate cuts and bailout packages, slaughtering the short side and promoting the &#8220;bull&#8221; only club. </p>
<p>Like GW&#8217;s Iraq policy, the Fed objectives changes with time and the situation. The initial reason for creating the financial bubbles through easy money policy  was &#8221; fighting deflation&#8221;. The current reason has morphed into preventing collapse of their favorite children, the easy money speculative crime family banks. </p>
<p>The present was ordained the day Greenspan, Rubin, and Sandi Weil decided over lunch to resurrect the banking trust of yore. Bernanke and company have ensured continuity.</p>
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