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	<title>Comments on: Dani Rodrik: &quot;Death of globalisation consensus&quot;</title>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/death-of-globalisation-consensus.html#comment-11509</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This article exhibits a confusion rendering its conclusion unclear.  &quot;Globalization&quot; is expressed often without any clear demarcation of its meaning.  At the heart of this indeterminacy is how &quot;globalization&quot; is distinguished from international trade.  Indeed, often these seem indistinguishable in the article, which is why few if any are &quot;opposed&quot; to &quot;globalization,&quot; as the author concludes.  International trade has been around for a long time.  Globalization is an amorphous extension of this historic human enterprise, and in what way it differs the author leaves uncertain.  So doing, the point of the article is lost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article exhibits a confusion rendering its conclusion unclear.  &#8220;Globalization&#8221; is expressed often without any clear demarcation of its meaning.  At the heart of this indeterminacy is how &#8220;globalization&#8221; is distinguished from international trade.  Indeed, often these seem indistinguishable in the article, which is why few if any are &#8220;opposed&#8221; to &#8220;globalization,&#8221; as the author concludes.  International trade has been around for a long time.  Globalization is an amorphous extension of this historic human enterprise, and in what way it differs the author leaves uncertain.  So doing, the point of the article is lost.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody (Tokin&#38;#39; Lib&#38;#39;rul/Rogue Scholar &#38;amp; O&#38;#39;erall Helluvafella!)</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/death-of-globalisation-consensus.html#comment-11325</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody (Tokin&#38;#39; Lib&#38;#39;rul/Rogue Scholar &#38;amp; O&#38;#39;erall Helluvafella!)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/dani-rodrik-death-of-globalisation-consensus/#comment-11325</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;...which may well be the most serious threat the world has ever faced.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;nah, that was probably that comet that extinguished about 95% of ALL life...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;but it is the most serious threat that humanity has ever faced...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;This might otherwise be said: Free trade might be a nice idea, but we haven&#039;t tried it yet. &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A shameless rip-off: Asked what he thought of Western civilization, Gandhi said it would be a good idea...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Then, though it is probably apocryphal, there is the story of the three planets to consider. That is, in order to lift ever person in the world to the level of prosperity enjoyed by the poorest Americans would require the resources of three more planets endowed exactly as Earth is with exploitable materials. A quick glance heavenward ought to assure the free-traders of their folly, cuz if those planets were there, you know fer sher they&#039;d be visible...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230;which may well be the most serious threat the world has ever faced.</i></p>
<p>nah, that was probably that comet that extinguished about 95% of ALL life&#8230;</p>
<p>but it is the most serious threat that humanity has ever faced&#8230;</p>
<p><i>This might otherwise be said: Free trade might be a nice idea, but we haven&#8217;t tried it yet. </i></p>
<p>A shameless rip-off: Asked what he thought of Western civilization, Gandhi said it would be a good idea&#8230;</p>
<p>Then, though it is probably apocryphal, there is the story of the three planets to consider. That is, in order to lift ever person in the world to the level of prosperity enjoyed by the poorest Americans would require the resources of three more planets endowed exactly as Earth is with exploitable materials. A quick glance heavenward ought to assure the free-traders of their folly, cuz if those planets were there, you know fer sher they&#8217;d be visible&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Benedict@Large</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/death-of-globalisation-consensus.html#comment-11307</link>
		<dc:creator>Benedict@Large</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/dani-rodrik-death-of-globalisation-consensus/#comment-11307</guid>
		<description>Richard Kline said... &lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;economic globalisation ... was likely to improve the wealth and life of many inhabitants in &#039;emerging economies.&#039;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; This is a ridiculous assertion. While under optimal conditions, globalization can increase the wealth of an emerging economy, the distribution of that wealth among the inhabitants is a totally separate matter and highly dependent upon local political structures. It hardly matters to the individual peasant whether he is a subsistence farmer or a subsistence factory worker. In fact, it can be argued that the latter is worse as it decreases individual autonomy and increases dependence.&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;We use too many resources, are disproportionately wealthy …&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; A some level, this assumes a zero sum game, and it is a major assertion that globalization is anything but. Is this assertion then wrong? Then by extension … ?&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;tz said... &lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;Free Trade&quot; … means 10,000 page agreements protecting kleptocrats on both sides of the borders&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; This might otherwise be said: Free trade might be a nice idea, but we haven&#039;t tried it yet. Other commenters seem to agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Kline said&#8230; <br /><i>economic globalisation &#8230; was likely to improve the wealth and life of many inhabitants in &#8216;emerging economies.&#8217;</i></p>
<p> This is a ridiculous assertion. While under optimal conditions, globalization can increase the wealth of an emerging economy, the distribution of that wealth among the inhabitants is a totally separate matter and highly dependent upon local political structures. It hardly matters to the individual peasant whether he is a subsistence farmer or a subsistence factory worker. In fact, it can be argued that the latter is worse as it decreases individual autonomy and increases dependence.</p>
<p><i>We use too many resources, are disproportionately wealthy …</i></p>
<p> A some level, this assumes a zero sum game, and it is a major assertion that globalization is anything but. Is this assertion then wrong? Then by extension … ?</p>
<p>tz said&#8230; <br /><i>&#8220;Free Trade&#8221; … means 10,000 page agreements protecting kleptocrats on both sides of the borders</i></p>
<p> This might otherwise be said: Free trade might be a nice idea, but we haven&#8217;t tried it yet. Other commenters seem to agree.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/death-of-globalisation-consensus.html#comment-11286</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 03:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Even economists are beginning to understand the staggering, all-in, true cost of globalization to the US (and the world).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;We supply the consumer market, and they supply the gulag labor. Short run slash and burn capialism at it&#039;s finest. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The platform, asset lite, stateless corporations have their way, financed by wall street, marketed by academia, and implemented by the US government. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Hold on to your financial seat belts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even economists are beginning to understand the staggering, all-in, true cost of globalization to the US (and the world).</p>
<p>We supply the consumer market, and they supply the gulag labor. Short run slash and burn capialism at it&#8217;s finest. </p>
<p>The platform, asset lite, stateless corporations have their way, financed by wall street, marketed by academia, and implemented by the US government. </p>
<p>Hold on to your financial seat belts.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael McKinlay</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/death-of-globalisation-consensus.html#comment-11254</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael McKinlay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;b&gt; Not one mention of Peak Oil&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Everything about the debate relies on ignoring the elephant in the living room ~ Peak Oil ... In a word,  using 6 barrels of crude oil for every new barrel discovered is called ~ unsustainable. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And ... those new barrels are from smaller deposits, deeper in the ground, further under the ocean, in nationalized countries, in politically unstable countries and \ or all of the above. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The low hanging fruit of crude oil production has been picked and no new production can replace the low cost nor can alternative fuels be scaled up to cover the shortfall even at higher costs.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;b&gt; And just what do economists think will happen to trade if and when oil prices go quickly higher than today? &lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b> Not one mention of Peak Oil</b></p>
<p>Everything about the debate relies on ignoring the elephant in the living room ~ Peak Oil &#8230; In a word,  using 6 barrels of crude oil for every new barrel discovered is called ~ unsustainable. </p>
<p>And &#8230; those new barrels are from smaller deposits, deeper in the ground, further under the ocean, in nationalized countries, in politically unstable countries and \ or all of the above. </p>
<p>The low hanging fruit of crude oil production has been picked and no new production can replace the low cost nor can alternative fuels be scaled up to cover the shortfall even at higher costs.</p>
<p><b> And just what do economists think will happen to trade if and when oil prices go quickly higher than today? </b></p>
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		<title>By: Fledermaus</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/death-of-globalisation-consensus.html#comment-11251</link>
		<dc:creator>Fledermaus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 21:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/dani-rodrik-death-of-globalisation-consensus/#comment-11251</guid>
		<description>&quot;None of these intellectuals is against globalisation, of course. What they want is not to turn back globalisation, but to create new institutions and compensation mechanisms . . . that will render globalisation more effective, fairer, and more sustainable.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Their policy proposals are often vague (when specified at all), and command little consensus.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;That&#039;s the rub ain&#039;t it.  Whenever i saw one of the free traders casually mention how disappearing manufacturing jobs was no problem because there&#039;d be a bunch of new better jobs created - hand waiving - somehow.  But they could never say what these jobs were.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Further it just doesn&#039;t make logical sence that a company would ship 50 $40K/year jobs overseas where 100 people would work for $8k/year.  Yeah that would save money and lead to lower prices.  But there would not be 50 new $60k/year jobs.  At most you might get a few shipping or logistics jobs, or lower paid retail jobs covering the new demand created  by the lower price.  But not enough to  be a full replacement for the jobs lost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;None of these intellectuals is against globalisation, of course. What they want is not to turn back globalisation, but to create new institutions and compensation mechanisms . . . that will render globalisation more effective, fairer, and more sustainable.</p>
<p>Their policy proposals are often vague (when specified at all), and command little consensus.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the rub ain&#8217;t it.  Whenever i saw one of the free traders casually mention how disappearing manufacturing jobs was no problem because there&#8217;d be a bunch of new better jobs created &#8211; hand waiving &#8211; somehow.  But they could never say what these jobs were.</p>
<p>Further it just doesn&#8217;t make logical sence that a company would ship 50 $40K/year jobs overseas where 100 people would work for $8k/year.  Yeah that would save money and lead to lower prices.  But there would not be 50 new $60k/year jobs.  At most you might get a few shipping or logistics jobs, or lower paid retail jobs covering the new demand created  by the lower price.  But not enough to  be a full replacement for the jobs lost.</p>
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		<title>By: rexl</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/death-of-globalisation-consensus.html#comment-11245</link>
		<dc:creator>rexl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>i do not believe people have  changed or &#039;evolved&#039; very much and therefore the probable &#039;compensation mechanism&#039; is and will be &#039;WAR&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i do not believe people have  changed or &#8216;evolved&#8217; very much and therefore the probable &#8216;compensation mechanism&#8217; is and will be &#8216;WAR&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Forex Blog View</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/death-of-globalisation-consensus.html#comment-11241</link>
		<dc:creator>Forex Blog View</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Globalization is dead untill money will start flowing once again...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Globalization is dead untill money will start flowing once again&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: david from seattle</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/death-of-globalisation-consensus.html#comment-11239</link>
		<dc:creator>david from seattle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/dani-rodrik-death-of-globalisation-consensus/#comment-11239</guid>
		<description>I agree with TZ. We only have to look back in history to understand that we have not had a true free trade economy in the US if that is what Dani Rodrick is going to use as the measuring stick.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The fact of the matter is, how can we have free trade or better labeled earlier, &#039;fair trade&#039; from Chevez (which I&#039;d define as free trade where both the interests of business and consumers are protected by law) if we have a centralized monetary system?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Our money is manipulated by central banks with no competing domestic currency to provide checks and balances. If your money is not solid but can vary in value from day to day you&#039;re not in a fair trade system, because your currency can be unfairly manipulated.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In addition, if we are looking at the U.S. economy, we need to understand the unfair legal and tax restrictions that domestic companies face here that don&#039;t necessarily exist in the rest of the world. Think NAFTA and where jobs and profitability went. Think, China, where low cost labor (and lack of labor laws) further outsourced our economic infrastructure in manufacturing.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Now when you put it all together, you realize that central banking and over regulation of an economy produces this Harvard theorists results. His research should more correctly be an illustration and an analysis of an unfair and fettered global trade system.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A true fair/free trade system has not existed since 1914 as TZ said earlier. I don&#039;t think the world globalised before 1914 and so therefore, this research and these metrics aren&#039;t even based on a true free economy.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Probably the closest snapshot of a free trade economy would be better measured in e-commerce. You only have to look at the rapid growth and profits from those who have less taxation and less limitation on their abilities to market and conduct business.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;However, even the virtual world has tinges of manipulation as the currency used is still largely from central banks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with TZ. We only have to look back in history to understand that we have not had a true free trade economy in the US if that is what Dani Rodrick is going to use as the measuring stick.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is, how can we have free trade or better labeled earlier, &#8216;fair trade&#8217; from Chevez (which I&#8217;d define as free trade where both the interests of business and consumers are protected by law) if we have a centralized monetary system?</p>
<p>Our money is manipulated by central banks with no competing domestic currency to provide checks and balances. If your money is not solid but can vary in value from day to day you&#8217;re not in a fair trade system, because your currency can be unfairly manipulated.</p>
<p>In addition, if we are looking at the U.S. economy, we need to understand the unfair legal and tax restrictions that domestic companies face here that don&#8217;t necessarily exist in the rest of the world. Think NAFTA and where jobs and profitability went. Think, China, where low cost labor (and lack of labor laws) further outsourced our economic infrastructure in manufacturing.</p>
<p>Now when you put it all together, you realize that central banking and over regulation of an economy produces this Harvard theorists results. His research should more correctly be an illustration and an analysis of an unfair and fettered global trade system.</p>
<p>A true fair/free trade system has not existed since 1914 as TZ said earlier. I don&#8217;t think the world globalised before 1914 and so therefore, this research and these metrics aren&#8217;t even based on a true free economy.</p>
<p>Probably the closest snapshot of a free trade economy would be better measured in e-commerce. You only have to look at the rapid growth and profits from those who have less taxation and less limitation on their abilities to market and conduct business.</p>
<p>However, even the virtual world has tinges of manipulation as the currency used is still largely from central banks.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/death-of-globalisation-consensus.html#comment-11238</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;If free trade is improving the lives of unskilled workers in poor developing countries&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Nonsense. Neo-liberalism has actually stunted growth for most developing economies.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I suggest everyone read &quot;Bad Samaritans&quot; by Ha-Joon Chang&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://www.amazon.com/Bad-Samaritans-Secret-History-Capitalism/dp/1596913991&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The author pretty much demolishes the world is flat-free trade Orwellian doublespeak crapaganda.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If you want a specific case read:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And the Money Kept Rolling in (And Out): Wall Street, the Imf, And the Bankrupting of Argentina by Paul Blustein.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If free trade is improving the lives of unskilled workers in poor developing countries&#8221;</p>
<p>Nonsense. Neo-liberalism has actually stunted growth for most developing economies.</p>
<p>I suggest everyone read &#8220;Bad Samaritans&#8221; by Ha-Joon Chang</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Bad-Samaritans-Secret-History-Capitalism/dp/1596913991" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Bad-Samaritans-Secret-History-Capitalism/dp/1596913991</a></p>
<p>The author pretty much demolishes the world is flat-free trade Orwellian doublespeak crapaganda.</p>
<p>If you want a specific case read:</p>
<p>And the Money Kept Rolling in (And Out): Wall Street, the Imf, And the Bankrupting of Argentina by Paul Blustein.</p>
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