Comments on: What do the Germans Think of Obama? http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-germans-think-of-obama.html Mon, 23 Nov 2009 03:54:45 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Yves Smith http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-germans-think-of-obama.html#comment-12441 Yves Smith Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:36:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-the-germans-think-of-obama/#comment-12441 Fernando,<br/><br/>Most discussions of "markets" are hopelessly imbued with politics. And the people who seem most critical of those who talk about politics on financially oriented sites, per Anon of 7:48 AM, seem to be of the libertarian stripe. <br/><br/>And your vitriol is unacceptable. I am about to go offline, but I am putting Ed Wright on notice. Ad hominem attacks will get your comments deleted. Fernando,

Most discussions of “markets” are hopelessly imbued with politics. And the people who seem most critical of those who talk about politics on financially oriented sites, per Anon of 7:48 AM, seem to be of the libertarian stripe.

And your vitriol is unacceptable. I am about to go offline, but I am putting Ed Wright on notice. Ad hominem attacks will get your comments deleted.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-germans-think-of-obama.html#comment-12427 Anonymous Sat, 02 Aug 2008 11:48:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-the-germans-think-of-obama/#comment-12427 Amazing! Yves goes away and the blog comments get hijacked by Moldbug's collection of intellectual posers, serial namedroppers and various and sundry losers proudly showing off their brand new dictionaries.<br/><br/>Ayyy, America. Amazing! Yves goes away and the blog comments get hijacked by Moldbug’s collection of intellectual posers, serial namedroppers and various and sundry losers proudly showing off their brand new dictionaries.

Ayyy, America.

]]> By: Hubert http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-germans-think-of-obama.html#comment-12426 Hubert Sat, 02 Aug 2008 09:49:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-the-germans-think-of-obama/#comment-12426 Somewhat nearer to the post,<br/><br/>The Spiegel does not think, it opinionates for the social academic part of society in Germany. Sometimes they lead opinion like maybe the NYT in the US, sometimes not.<br/>We Germans basically like Obama and do not care too much about details. We like the story, his voice, and generally enjoyed this primary theater against Hillary, as we saw it as non-establishment winning.<br/>On Afganistan: We have some soldiers there on strategically untenable ground. They are supposed not to fight but maybe police a little bit. As we neither have the history nor the propaganda apparatus for embellishing our historical military endeavours (nor the birth rates for male soldiers) -we are ill-prepared to go into real action in Afganistan. Any government who sees more than, say 50 soldiers dying, would be pressured to take the troops back and it would be secondary if Bush or Obama would suggest otherwise.<br/><br/>GErman military in Afganistan is a PR bluff for foreign and internal policy. Foreigners attribute historical belligerance to Germans confoundig it with Prussia. Two generations have grown up now learning about the misdeeds of german soldiers. There is no "real" military support we can give in Afghanistan. We could not stand the downside psychologically as a Nation. Somewhat nearer to the post,

The Spiegel does not think, it opinionates for the social academic part of society in Germany. Sometimes they lead opinion like maybe the NYT in the US, sometimes not.
We Germans basically like Obama and do not care too much about details. We like the story, his voice, and generally enjoyed this primary theater against Hillary, as we saw it as non-establishment winning.
On Afganistan: We have some soldiers there on strategically untenable ground. They are supposed not to fight but maybe police a little bit. As we neither have the history nor the propaganda apparatus for embellishing our historical military endeavours (nor the birth rates for male soldiers) -we are ill-prepared to go into real action in Afganistan. Any government who sees more than, say 50 soldiers dying, would be pressured to take the troops back and it would be secondary if Bush or Obama would suggest otherwise.

GErman military in Afganistan is a PR bluff for foreign and internal policy. Foreigners attribute historical belligerance to Germans confoundig it with Prussia. Two generations have grown up now learning about the misdeeds of german soldiers. There is no “real” military support we can give in Afghanistan. We could not stand the downside psychologically as a Nation.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-germans-think-of-obama.html#comment-12423 Anonymous Sat, 02 Aug 2008 06:57:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-the-germans-think-of-obama/#comment-12423 "m", thanks for the reply. I agree - the financial crises will not be over until housing prices bottom, wherever and whenever that may be, and any calls for a bottom before that happens are bound to be premature.<br/><br/>Doug “m”, thanks for the reply. I agree – the financial crises will not be over until housing prices bottom, wherever and whenever that may be, and any calls for a bottom before that happens are bound to be premature.

Doug

]]> By: Fernando08 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-germans-think-of-obama.html#comment-12419 Fernando08 Sat, 02 Aug 2008 05:20:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-the-germans-think-of-obama/#comment-12419 m<br/>third rate pseudo-intellectual. Doesn't know about science, social science, etc. And people pay you to manage money? I assume you do not like the role of government in our lives. You rely on the market to create and maintain our social order. Is the demand for war elastic or inelastic? How about the inability to distinguish one discipline, such as physics, which is a recognized science from sociology which is also a recognized science. It is not based on the experimental method alone but by observation, measurable phenomena which can be recognized and used to explain and predict the behavior of events, whether storms or the amount of prisons we need to start building now based on the juvenile delinquency rate. We will need to reeducate finaciopaths such as yourself in the coming restructuring of America. m
third rate pseudo-intellectual. Doesn’t know about science, social science, etc. And people pay you to manage money? I assume you do not like the role of government in our lives. You rely on the market to create and maintain our social order. Is the demand for war elastic or inelastic? How about the inability to distinguish one discipline, such as physics, which is a recognized science from sociology which is also a recognized science. It is not based on the experimental method alone but by observation, measurable phenomena which can be recognized and used to explain and predict the behavior of events, whether storms or the amount of prisons we need to start building now based on the juvenile delinquency rate. We will need to reeducate finaciopaths such as yourself in the coming restructuring of America.

]]> By: m http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-germans-think-of-obama.html#comment-12416 m Sat, 02 Aug 2008 02:53:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-the-germans-think-of-obama/#comment-12416 Doug, I view the collapse of the financial markets as ongoing. I think we're going to see dozens to hundreds of regional banks fail, and almost certainly some of the big boys as well before this is over. I think stabilization will occur when real estate prices bottom - a proposition which is probably a long way off. I could provide a lot of inductive evidence in support of this position - indeed, Yves writes about increasingly ominous signs in the financial markets daily - but I think the macro picture of where we're headed is fundamentally deductive in nature. I.e. you may or may not agree with my position, but if you are inclined, however, to be unconvinced, some pollyanna social scientist has facts and figures abound to unconvince you.<br/><br/>Objective scientific procedures about the real world can certainly tell us that there is some correlation between trait X and behavior Y. In order to exclude the possibility that some confounding variable is producing this pattern - the famed "chopsticks gene," for example - we often have to think intuitively and subjectively.<br/><br/>Thus, in order to obtain a meaningful result, we have both a scientific process, and one that is essentially literary and aesthetic. Lose either and the result has no validity.<br/><br/>At least as I can tell from the work that is high-profile and/or well-connected enough to reach the Gray Lady these days, it seems very easy for "social scientists" to finesse around the intuitive side of the problem, and emphasize the numbers, models, etc. Moreover, I usually find that the intuitive, phronetic side is the interesting one.<br/><br/>Thus my distaste for numbers in the study of society. Carlyle, as usual, expresses it more eloquently: http://books.google.com/books?id=3qQOAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA127&dq=carlyle+%22figures+of+arithmetic%22&ei=KKhXSJbzAY7WsAPOsqm-DQ#PPA124,M1<br/><br/>Have you considered the following, for example, as a major contributing factor to the mess we're in? <br/><br/>http://www.takimag.com/site/article/the_diversity_recession_or_how_affirmative_action_helped_cause_the_housing/ Doug, I view the collapse of the financial markets as ongoing. I think we're going to see dozens to hundreds of regional banks fail, and almost certainly some of the big boys as well before this is over. I think stabilization will occur when real estate prices bottom – a proposition which is probably a long way off. I could provide a lot of inductive evidence in support of this position – indeed, Yves writes about increasingly ominous signs in the financial markets daily – but I think the macro picture of where we're headed is fundamentally deductive in nature. I.e. you may or may not agree with my position, but if you are inclined, however, to be unconvinced, some pollyanna social scientist has facts and figures abound to unconvince you.

Objective scientific procedures about the real world can certainly tell us that there is some correlation between trait X and behavior Y. In order to exclude the possibility that some confounding variable is producing this pattern – the famed "chopsticks gene," for example – we often have to think intuitively and subjectively.

Thus, in order to obtain a meaningful result, we have both a scientific process, and one that is essentially literary and aesthetic. Lose either and the result has no validity.

At least as I can tell from the work that is high-profile and/or well-connected enough to reach the Gray Lady these days, it seems very easy for "social scientists" to finesse around the intuitive side of the problem, and emphasize the numbers, models, etc. Moreover, I usually find that the intuitive, phronetic side is the interesting one.

Thus my distaste for numbers in the study of society. Carlyle, as usual, expresses it more eloquently: http://books.google.com/books?id=3qQOAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA127&dq=carlyle+%22figures+of+arithmetic%22&ei=KKhXSJbzAY7WsAPOsqm-DQ#PPA124,M1

Have you considered the following, for example, as a major contributing factor to the mess we're in?

http://www.takimag.com/site/article/the_diversity_recession_or_how_affirmative_action_helped_cause_the_housing/

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-germans-think-of-obama.html#comment-12415 Anonymous Sat, 02 Aug 2008 02:24:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-the-germans-think-of-obama/#comment-12415 "m" - I would like to know how you define "the collapse of the financial markets". As you state this as fact, is there a metric or objective set or criteria that has been fulfilled?<br/><br/>Is it, in fact, a "collapse" or just a ... "severe contraction in the availability of credit" at this point in time??<br/><br/>TIA.<br/><br/>doug “m” – I would like to know how you define “the collapse of the financial markets”. As you state this as fact, is there a metric or objective set or criteria that has been fulfilled?

Is it, in fact, a “collapse” or just a … “severe contraction in the availability of credit” at this point in time??

TIA.

doug

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-germans-think-of-obama.html#comment-12414 Anonymous Sat, 02 Aug 2008 01:45:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-the-germans-think-of-obama/#comment-12414 WTF do The Germans think of covered bonds, would be far ore interesting and on topic than a political side-track WTF do The Germans think of covered bonds, would be far ore interesting and on topic than a political side-track

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-germans-think-of-obama.html#comment-12413 Anonymous Sat, 02 Aug 2008 01:21:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-the-germans-think-of-obama/#comment-12413 I want Yves back right now. I don't care for any of this plebian crap.<br/><br/><br/>I second that, Yves, get back here now, things are not going well! We need you, please call!! I want Yves back right now. I don’t care for any of this plebian crap.

I second that, Yves, get back here now, things are not going well! We need you, please call!!

]]> By: m http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-germans-think-of-obama.html#comment-12411 m Sat, 02 Aug 2008 00:58:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/08/what-do-the-germans-think-of-obama/#comment-12411 Anonymous - if how the Germans view Obama really interests you, I would highly recommend this post:<br/><br/>http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/secret-of-anti-americanism.html<br/><br/>Mencius works praxeologically, considering any so-called "evidence" after he's reached his conclusion. Anonymous – if how the Germans view Obama really interests you, I would highly recommend this post:

http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/secret-of-anti-americanism.html

Mencius works praxeologically, considering any so-called “evidence” after he’s reached his conclusion.

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