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	<title>Comments on: Credit Markets Roiled Despite AIG Rescue</title>
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		<title>By: Richard Kline</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig.html#comment-15861</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Kline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 05:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig-rescue/#comment-15861</guid>
		<description>So RN, I&#039;m with you:  We have to have the re-reg to know what it is that we are re-capitalizing, and what the rules of the game are.  As we have seen through the last fourteen months, re-capping the existing big busted players is just pouring liquid treasure into broken crocks.  To a degree, we have to during the next six months since Congress and the Administration have wasted their first, best, and only opportunity to get out front of the crash and choose where and how they were going to land.  Now, they can only keep pouring and hope that the well doesn&#039;t run dry before we can do the re-reg after the election.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Them than can plan, do; them that can&#039;t, punt.  Given the craptastic proposals for &#039;regulation&#039; Paulson coughed up last Autumn, I&#039;m only too happy to have someone _else_ as point man on the re-build.  If we get that far.  . . . The Ides of September Massacre grind down, grind on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So RN, I&#8217;m with you:  We have to have the re-reg to know what it is that we are re-capitalizing, and what the rules of the game are.  As we have seen through the last fourteen months, re-capping the existing big busted players is just pouring liquid treasure into broken crocks.  To a degree, we have to during the next six months since Congress and the Administration have wasted their first, best, and only opportunity to get out front of the crash and choose where and how they were going to land.  Now, they can only keep pouring and hope that the well doesn&#8217;t run dry before we can do the re-reg after the election.  </p>
<p>Them than can plan, do; them that can&#8217;t, punt.  Given the craptastic proposals for &#8216;regulation&#8217; Paulson coughed up last Autumn, I&#8217;m only too happy to have someone _else_ as point man on the re-build.  If we get that far.  . . . The Ides of September Massacre grind down, grind on.</p>
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		<title>By: Sergei</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig.html#comment-15859</link>
		<dc:creator>Sergei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 05:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig-rescue/#comment-15859</guid>
		<description>BTW, i just found out that the 85bn loan from the government to AIG gives the government ability to veto dividend payments to AIG preferred shares investors.  More reason for investors to avoid this type of instrument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, i just found out that the 85bn loan from the government to AIG gives the government ability to veto dividend payments to AIG preferred shares investors.  More reason for investors to avoid this type of instrument.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig.html#comment-15825</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig-rescue/#comment-15825</guid>
		<description>Love this site!  Best analysis around, and great comments to boot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love this site!  Best analysis around, and great comments to boot.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig.html#comment-15783</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig-rescue/#comment-15783</guid>
		<description>&quot;credit analysts are constitutional pessimists&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;hah, glad you&#039;re keeping your sense of humor, that&#039;s what got in this mess right? All those pessimistic credit ratings</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;credit analysts are constitutional pessimists&#8221;</p>
<p>hah, glad you&#8217;re keeping your sense of humor, that&#8217;s what got in this mess right? All those pessimistic credit ratings</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig.html#comment-15778</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig-rescue/#comment-15778</guid>
		<description>It seems anyone who comes into contact with AIG seems bound to lose their shirts - Eliot, Hank, Henry and now the long-suffering taxpayer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems anyone who comes into contact with AIG seems bound to lose their shirts &#8211; Eliot, Hank, Henry and now the long-suffering taxpayer.</p>
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		<title>By: mxq</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig.html#comment-15775</link>
		<dc:creator>mxq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig-rescue/#comment-15775</guid>
		<description>There are several ironies present in this whole cluster****. But one irony that is near and dear to my own heart happens to be the down jones/AIG commodity index.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;m just wondering how much of that &lt;i&gt;tax-payer-funded&lt;/i&gt; 85 bazillion dollar loan is going to keep that index gig going?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The fact that the CFTC just admitted they have no clue as to if there are adverse effects of this type of investing, makes this just another fiasco within a fiasco.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are several ironies present in this whole cluster****. But one irony that is near and dear to my own heart happens to be the down jones/AIG commodity index.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just wondering how much of that <i>tax-payer-funded</i> 85 bazillion dollar loan is going to keep that index gig going?</p>
<p>The fact that the CFTC just admitted they have no clue as to if there are adverse effects of this type of investing, makes this just another fiasco within a fiasco.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig.html#comment-15768</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig-rescue/#comment-15768</guid>
		<description>&quot;The reflation that took place during the Depression, when the US went off the gold standard in 1934, entailed a fall in the value of the dollar of roughly 40%. You would think the powers that be would recognize that our ability to trash the currency is constrained (or ought to be) by the risk of causing a currency crisis.&quot; -- Yves Smith&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I guess the question is, which kind of crisis do you prefer -- an economic crisis, or a currency crisis? During 1930, 1931 and 1932, deflation was running at about 10% per year, steadily wiping out debtors whose nominal liabilities didn&#039;t change, although their nominal incomes and assets had shrunk by 30% or more.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Frank Roosevelt&#039;s 40% devaluation of the dollar against gold apparently stopped the deflation in its tracks. In fact, it may have been the SOLE effective policy measure employed, along with many others which backfired.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Funny, in the histories of the period, the dollar&#039;s massive devaluation is not described as a &quot;currency crisis,&quot; although it certainly was for foreign holders of dollar-denominated assets (a/k/a &quot;beggar thy neighbor&quot;).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;One way to stop real estate deflation in its tracks would be another massive devaluation of the dollar. Lower the dollar index from 78 to 50; crank CPI inflation to 10%; welcome hordes of foreign buyers; and real estate won&#039;t sink much longer.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Admittedly, the US would be selling its birthright. It would be obliged to forfeit its de facto foreign empire, much as Britain did in the 1940s.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But all indications are that this is, in fact, the choice our politicians will make. Their planning horizon (by constitutional edict) ranges from 2 to 6 years -- the next election. Selling out the country now to get re-elected 3 months hence is an entirely rational policy ... from THEIR perspective.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And speaking as a prospective victim, it&#039;s entirely rational for me and you to do some TWO-FISTED BUYING of the OLD YELLER DAWG.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The reflation that took place during the Depression, when the US went off the gold standard in 1934, entailed a fall in the value of the dollar of roughly 40%. You would think the powers that be would recognize that our ability to trash the currency is constrained (or ought to be) by the risk of causing a currency crisis.&#8221; &#8212; Yves Smith</p>
<p>I guess the question is, which kind of crisis do you prefer &#8212; an economic crisis, or a currency crisis? During 1930, 1931 and 1932, deflation was running at about 10% per year, steadily wiping out debtors whose nominal liabilities didn&#8217;t change, although their nominal incomes and assets had shrunk by 30% or more.</p>
<p>Frank Roosevelt&#8217;s 40% devaluation of the dollar against gold apparently stopped the deflation in its tracks. In fact, it may have been the SOLE effective policy measure employed, along with many others which backfired.</p>
<p>Funny, in the histories of the period, the dollar&#8217;s massive devaluation is not described as a &#8220;currency crisis,&#8221; although it certainly was for foreign holders of dollar-denominated assets (a/k/a &#8220;beggar thy neighbor&#8221;).</p>
<p>One way to stop real estate deflation in its tracks would be another massive devaluation of the dollar. Lower the dollar index from 78 to 50; crank CPI inflation to 10%; welcome hordes of foreign buyers; and real estate won&#8217;t sink much longer.</p>
<p>Admittedly, the US would be selling its birthright. It would be obliged to forfeit its de facto foreign empire, much as Britain did in the 1940s.</p>
<p>But all indications are that this is, in fact, the choice our politicians will make. Their planning horizon (by constitutional edict) ranges from 2 to 6 years &#8212; the next election. Selling out the country now to get re-elected 3 months hence is an entirely rational policy &#8230; from THEIR perspective.</p>
<p>And speaking as a prospective victim, it&#8217;s entirely rational for me and you to do some TWO-FISTED BUYING of the OLD YELLER DAWG.</p>
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		<title>By: doc holiday</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig.html#comment-15767</link>
		<dc:creator>doc holiday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig-rescue/#comment-15767</guid>
		<description>Here is spread:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=.TEDSP:IND&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;From Yves Vault:  THURSDAY, APRIL 17, 2008&lt;br/&gt;Why the Happy Talk About the Credit Crisis?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I am frequently mystified at what goes on in the markets. I am even more mystified when people who ought to know better make pronouncements that appear to be profoundly counter-factual. Even if they are talking their own book, the high odds of being revealed as bald-faced liars proven wrong ought to make them worry about damaging their credibility. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Is this wishful thinking? Delusion? A hope that that a united front can change perceptions and therefore reality? (see this as Tinkerbell behavior: if we all clap together, the markets won&#039;t die).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/why-happy-talk-about-credit-crisis.html&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;See Also:  OIS (overnight index swap)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is spread:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=.TEDSP:IND" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=.TEDSP:IND</a></p>
<p>From Yves Vault:  THURSDAY, APRIL 17, 2008<br />Why the Happy Talk About the Credit Crisis?</p>
<p>I am frequently mystified at what goes on in the markets. I am even more mystified when people who ought to know better make pronouncements that appear to be profoundly counter-factual. Even if they are talking their own book, the high odds of being revealed as bald-faced liars proven wrong ought to make them worry about damaging their credibility. </p>
<p>Is this wishful thinking? Delusion? A hope that that a united front can change perceptions and therefore reality? (see this as Tinkerbell behavior: if we all clap together, the markets won&#8217;t die).</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/why-happy-talk-about-credit-crisis.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/04/why-happy-talk-about-credit-crisis.html</a></p>
<p>See Also:  OIS (overnight index swap)</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig.html#comment-15764</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig-rescue/#comment-15764</guid>
		<description>I hope you US-people still can put faith in your leaders...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;-------------------&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Reid Says `No One Knows What to Do&#039; to Solve Crisis (Update2) &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;By James Rowley and Brian Faler&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Sept. 17 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Congress is unlikely to pass new legislation to overhaul financial regulations this year because ``no one knows what to do,&#039;&#039; Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said today. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;``We are in new territory, this is a different game,&#039;&#039; Reid said at a briefing in Washington. Neither Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke nor Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson ``know what to do but they are trying to come up with ideas,&#039;&#039; Reid said. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&amp;sid=aHVyPBMMM9MA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope you US-people still can put faith in your leaders&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>Reid Says `No One Knows What to Do&#39; to Solve Crisis (Update2) </p>
<p>By James Rowley and Brian Faler</p>
<p>Sept. 17 (Bloomberg) &#8212; The U.S. Congress is unlikely to pass new legislation to overhaul financial regulations this year because &#8220;no one knows what to do,&#39;&#39; Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said today. </p>
<p>&#8220;We are in new territory, this is a different game,&#39;&#39; Reid said at a briefing in Washington. Neither Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke nor Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson &#8220;know what to do but they are trying to come up with ideas,&#39;&#39; Reid said. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&amp;sid=aHVyPBMMM9MA" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&amp;sid=aHVyPBMMM9MA</a></p>
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		<title>By: RN</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig.html#comment-15763</link>
		<dc:creator>RN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/credit-markets-roiled-despite-aig-rescue/#comment-15763</guid>
		<description>The problem is that so many asset prices were bid up because of an unrestrained credit bubble.  In the absence of fundamental support, those prices cannot be sustained, and as we see now the fear during a credit deflation can be more powerful (and certainly more rapid) in effect than the greed during credit inflation.   &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The common perception is that a more sensible regulatory structure should be put in place after the &quot;damage is done&quot;.  In my opinion, this is backwards.  The regulatory structure should be written and implemented NOW so that new firms can spring up operating under the clear new rules of the game and replace the ones with the opaque balance sheets, and begin to provide the credit and the confidence that is desperately missing now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is that so many asset prices were bid up because of an unrestrained credit bubble.  In the absence of fundamental support, those prices cannot be sustained, and as we see now the fear during a credit deflation can be more powerful (and certainly more rapid) in effect than the greed during credit inflation.   </p>
<p>The common perception is that a more sensible regulatory structure should be put in place after the &#8220;damage is done&#8221;.  In my opinion, this is backwards.  The regulatory structure should be written and implemented NOW so that new firms can spring up operating under the clear new rules of the game and replace the ones with the opaque balance sheets, and begin to provide the credit and the confidence that is desperately missing now.</p>
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