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	<title>Comments on: Merrill: Low Treasury Yields to Go Even Lower</title>
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		<title>By: Richard Kline</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/merrill-low-treasury-yields-to-go-even.html#comment-18647</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Kline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 08:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>And SlimCarlos, I agree with you completely that most economic analysis suffers severely from perspectivistic distortions---and virtually all American analysis.  Comparable parties are view differently, and also durations of effects are routinely compressed to make situations which are not truly comparable appear so.  I didn&#039;t mention the latter problem in the context of discussing whether mid-term inflationary moves purportedly offset against near-term price movements, but this deserves deeper consideration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And SlimCarlos, I agree with you completely that most economic analysis suffers severely from perspectivistic distortions&#8212;and virtually all American analysis.  Comparable parties are view differently, and also durations of effects are routinely compressed to make situations which are not truly comparable appear so.  I didn&#8217;t mention the latter problem in the context of discussing whether mid-term inflationary moves purportedly offset against near-term price movements, but this deserves deeper consideration.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Kline</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/merrill-low-treasury-yields-to-go-even.html#comment-18568</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Kline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/merrill-low-treasury-yields-to-go-even-lower/#comment-18568</guid>
		<description>So Yves, that is good if worrisome content to hear, re: sovereign wealth fund losses.  I can&#039;t say I&#039;m surprised, and particularly not with regard to the kinds of exposures mentioned in by your contact, commodities and hush-hush hedge fund placements.  Well, sovereign wealth will _not_ ride to the reflation in the US quickly.  I didn&#039;t particularly think this was going to happen, to be frank, but included the possibility in my leading comment here because to ignore the potential would have been a significant omission.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But let&#039;s extend this insight then:  What has been the _response_ from the backers of those sovereign wealth funds to &#039;instability in the financial system,&#039; including presumably their unstated losses?  Well, China lowered rates and loosened reserve requirements, actions of far more import than their concurrent rollback of fuel subsidies.  Faced with losses, they are sur-flating.  No one, but no one, at the sovereign level is going to accept deflation while they have computers to post pixels.  If overseas wealth doesn&#039;t flow into the US, we will only balloon our own balance sheets more to cover the slack, in my view.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So Juan, I agree with you that derived figures (such as Rosenberg&#039;s) for the nominal level of the velocity of money are an academic exercise, and cannot be considered firm readings.  But velocity IS a real component of financial system process and behavior, whose first order impacts can be broadly represented.  Yeah, any actual number is suspect, but if money is hard or easy to get the system acts quite differently in aggregate.  So velocity is not a moot concept, to me, only it&#039;s measurement.  . . . You&#039;ll notice that I didn&#039;t put any &#039;number&#039; on my own surmises there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Yves, that is good if worrisome content to hear, re: sovereign wealth fund losses.  I can&#8217;t say I&#8217;m surprised, and particularly not with regard to the kinds of exposures mentioned in by your contact, commodities and hush-hush hedge fund placements.  Well, sovereign wealth will _not_ ride to the reflation in the US quickly.  I didn&#8217;t particularly think this was going to happen, to be frank, but included the possibility in my leading comment here because to ignore the potential would have been a significant omission.  </p>
<p>But let&#8217;s extend this insight then:  What has been the _response_ from the backers of those sovereign wealth funds to &#8216;instability in the financial system,&#8217; including presumably their unstated losses?  Well, China lowered rates and loosened reserve requirements, actions of far more import than their concurrent rollback of fuel subsidies.  Faced with losses, they are sur-flating.  No one, but no one, at the sovereign level is going to accept deflation while they have computers to post pixels.  If overseas wealth doesn&#8217;t flow into the US, we will only balloon our own balance sheets more to cover the slack, in my view.  </p>
<p>So Juan, I agree with you that derived figures (such as Rosenberg&#8217;s) for the nominal level of the velocity of money are an academic exercise, and cannot be considered firm readings.  But velocity IS a real component of financial system process and behavior, whose first order impacts can be broadly represented.  Yeah, any actual number is suspect, but if money is hard or easy to get the system acts quite differently in aggregate.  So velocity is not a moot concept, to me, only it&#8217;s measurement.  . . . You&#8217;ll notice that I didn&#8217;t put any &#8216;number&#8217; on my own surmises there.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/merrill-low-treasury-yields-to-go-even.html#comment-18551</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Is the argument really inflation or deflation?  Why not both at once...I am no economist but the combination together seems far scarier.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Asset price deflation (delveraging), goods inflation (central bank cash pumping - transmitted through lower US dollar/higher commodity prices) - whilst wages are stagnant..ouch.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Is this possible?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is the argument really inflation or deflation?  Why not both at once&#8230;I am no economist but the combination together seems far scarier.</p>
<p>Asset price deflation (delveraging), goods inflation (central bank cash pumping &#8211; transmitted through lower US dollar/higher commodity prices) &#8211; whilst wages are stagnant..ouch.</p>
<p>Is this possible?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/merrill-low-treasury-yields-to-go-even.html#comment-18529</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;&quot;So, if we&#039;re entering a deflationary environment, where do I invest??&quot;&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Hold on cowboy!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think most people would say park it and be friggin thankful you have it!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This market has defied all thinking previous to this point.  One used to say &quot;0 coupon bonds&quot;... or utilities.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Maybe someone else can help you out more than I.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8221;So, if we&#8217;re entering a deflationary environment, where do I invest??&#8221;"</p>
<p>Hold on cowboy!</p>
<p>I think most people would say park it and be friggin thankful you have it!</p>
<p>This market has defied all thinking previous to this point.  One used to say &#8220;0 coupon bonds&#8221;&#8230; or utilities.</p>
<p>Maybe someone else can help you out more than I.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/merrill-low-treasury-yields-to-go-even.html#comment-18509</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/merrill-low-treasury-yields-to-go-even-lower/#comment-18509</guid>
		<description>So, if we&#039;re entering a deflationary environment, where do I invest??&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Treasuries seem incredibly expensive, I&#039;m not brave enough to take on corporate debt in this environment.  So where do I park my money for the next year ir two?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, if we&#8217;re entering a deflationary environment, where do I invest??</p>
<p>Treasuries seem incredibly expensive, I&#8217;m not brave enough to take on corporate debt in this environment.  So where do I park my money for the next year ir two?</p>
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		<title>By: SlimCarlos</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/merrill-low-treasury-yields-to-go-even.html#comment-18500</link>
		<dc:creator>SlimCarlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/merrill-low-treasury-yields-to-go-even-lower/#comment-18500</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt; The Flow of Funds report has showed a remarkable growth in mortgage credit from 02 thru 07 to the tune of 5 trillion dollars.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Five trillion over five years -- a trillion per year -- isn&#039;t too shabby, but the Fed has created, including TARP, between one and two trillion in less than two months.  There has never been a printing press that couldn&#039;t keep up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt; The Flow of Funds report has showed a remarkable growth in mortgage credit from 02 thru 07 to the tune of 5 trillion dollars.</p>
<p>Five trillion over five years &#8212; a trillion per year &#8212; isn&#39;t too shabby, but the Fed has created, including TARP, between one and two trillion in less than two months.  There has never been a printing press that couldn&#39;t keep up.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/merrill-low-treasury-yields-to-go-even.html#comment-18496</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The money on the side waiting to buy up all the financial bargins seems much like the SS trust fund or the Airline Trust fund, more IOU&#039;s rather then cash.  The Flow of Funds report has showed a remarkable growth in mortgage credit from 02 thru 07 to the tune of 5 trillion dollars.  Very little capital backs up that mortgage credit creation and it that does not cover all the credit card, LBO, student loan, auto etc that was up dumped on the every growing pile.  Those that view credit deflation as some type of minor bump along the inflation road may be correct based on historical information but then again the speed at which assets value is being destroyed should be a warning that credit defation is a far larger problem then anybody can imagine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The money on the side waiting to buy up all the financial bargins seems much like the SS trust fund or the Airline Trust fund, more IOU&#8217;s rather then cash.  The Flow of Funds report has showed a remarkable growth in mortgage credit from 02 thru 07 to the tune of 5 trillion dollars.  Very little capital backs up that mortgage credit creation and it that does not cover all the credit card, LBO, student loan, auto etc that was up dumped on the every growing pile.  Those that view credit deflation as some type of minor bump along the inflation road may be correct based on historical information but then again the speed at which assets value is being destroyed should be a warning that credit defation is a far larger problem then anybody can imagine.</p>
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		<title>By: SlimCarlos</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/merrill-low-treasury-yields-to-go-even.html#comment-18491</link>
		<dc:creator>SlimCarlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/merrill-low-treasury-yields-to-go-even-lower/#comment-18491</guid>
		<description>tompain is so right.  &lt;b&gt;Most&lt;/b&gt; weakening economies are accompanied by inflation.  And, indeed, deflation is exceptionally rare in a fiat currency world.  Japan is the one, near unqiue, exception.  But remember Japan ran (and still does) a huge trade surplus -- it was only their domestic economy that sagged.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A lot of the analysis we see suffers from a perspective deficit.  For some reason we in the western world feel that we are exceptional and the normal rules of economic forces do not apply to us.  If one presented the vital signs of the American economy -- massive debts, consumption-oriented candy-floss economy, massive trade deficits -- and showed it to Rosenberg without naming the country, would he predict deflation?  I think not.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This is just another case of a false belief in American Exceptionalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tompain is so right.  <b>Most</b> weakening economies are accompanied by inflation.  And, indeed, deflation is exceptionally rare in a fiat currency world.  Japan is the one, near unqiue, exception.  But remember Japan ran (and still does) a huge trade surplus &#8212; it was only their domestic economy that sagged.</p>
<p>A lot of the analysis we see suffers from a perspective deficit.  For some reason we in the western world feel that we are exceptional and the normal rules of economic forces do not apply to us.  If one presented the vital signs of the American economy &#8212; massive debts, consumption-oriented candy-floss economy, massive trade deficits &#8212; and showed it to Rosenberg without naming the country, would he predict deflation?  I think not.  </p>
<p>This is just another case of a false belief in American Exceptionalism.</p>
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		<title>By: tompain</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/merrill-low-treasury-yields-to-go-even.html#comment-18483</link>
		<dc:creator>tompain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Several posters suggest that a weakening economy creates deflationary forces that must be sufficient to offset inflationary pressure.  Collapsing economies routinely experience inflation.  Look at any instance of hyperinflation.  Did they occur in strong economies or weak ones? The economy in Zimbabwe is pretty bad.  Inflation is over 1 million percent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several posters suggest that a weakening economy creates deflationary forces that must be sufficient to offset inflationary pressure.  Collapsing economies routinely experience inflation.  Look at any instance of hyperinflation.  Did they occur in strong economies or weak ones? The economy in Zimbabwe is pretty bad.  Inflation is over 1 million percent.</p>
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		<title>By: tompain</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/merrill-low-treasury-yields-to-go-even.html#comment-18482</link>
		<dc:creator>tompain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/merrill-low-treasury-yields-to-go-even-lower/#comment-18482</guid>
		<description>What happens to the velocity of money if the rest of the world loses confidence in the dollar as a reserve currency? &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Inflation is the easiest way out of the debt mess.  If the government wants inflation, it will get it.  Even if velocity declines, it can only go so far, whereas the ability to print dollars is both unlimited and politically rewarding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What happens to the velocity of money if the rest of the world loses confidence in the dollar as a reserve currency? </p>
<p>Inflation is the easiest way out of the debt mess.  If the government wants inflation, it will get it.  Even if velocity declines, it can only go so far, whereas the ability to print dollars is both unlimited and politically rewarding.</p>
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