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	<title>Comments on: CDS Too Risky for CME Trading, Key Members Say</title>
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	<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cds-too-risky-for-cme-trading-key.html</link>
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		<title>By: Yves Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cds-too-risky-for-cme-trading-key.html#comment-22854</link>
		<dc:creator>Yves Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 06:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Anon of 2:25 AM,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I made quite deliberate use of tenses. The CME &quot;APPEARED&quot; to be the front runner. If they back away from using their clearinghouse due to members refusing to back the idea, they are no longer the head of the pack. It was the supposed willingness to use their current platform that gave them a leg up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon of 2:25 AM,</p>
<p>I made quite deliberate use of tenses. The CME &#8220;APPEARED&#8221; to be the front runner. If they back away from using their clearinghouse due to members refusing to back the idea, they are no longer the head of the pack. It was the supposed willingness to use their current platform that gave them a leg up.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cds-too-risky-for-cme-trading-key.html#comment-22847</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 06:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yves, you claim &quot;CME appeared to the be frontrunner&quot; to be the CDS exchange and &quot;this wrinkle does not imperil the idea.&quot; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But read the Bloomberg article you posted! The owner of the firm doing 14% of the world&#039;s equity options trades says he prefers a separate exchange from the CME. And &quot;a rival proposal by ICE would avoid the issue raised by [the options trading firm&#039;s owner].&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;How can CME still be the frontrunner when this kind of systemic risk worry is raised? If there are going to be kinks in CDS settlement, why do we want to invite contagion into the equity options market or the other CME markets?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yves, you claim &#8220;CME appeared to the be frontrunner&#8221; to be the CDS exchange and &#8220;this wrinkle does not imperil the idea.&#8221; </p>
<p>But read the Bloomberg article you posted! The owner of the firm doing 14% of the world&#8217;s equity options trades says he prefers a separate exchange from the CME. And &#8220;a rival proposal by ICE would avoid the issue raised by [the options trading firm's owner].&#8221;</p>
<p>How can CME still be the frontrunner when this kind of systemic risk worry is raised? If there are going to be kinks in CDS settlement, why do we want to invite contagion into the equity options market or the other CME markets?</p>
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		<title>By: Yves Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cds-too-risky-for-cme-trading-key.html#comment-22793</link>
		<dc:creator>Yves Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>D,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Why do you think AIG needed $85 billion + $38 biliion + another $10 billion of rescue money from the Fed? That was for their CDS exposures. Had they gone under, everyone is agreed it would have constituted a systemic event. And the fact the numbers keep getting bigger says there is serious stress.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Just because the officialdom threw $133 billion at AIG to avert a crisis, and may have succeeded, you now argue that because there were no disastrous outcomes, there was no risk.  That is tantamount to saying that because no one died as a result of Three Mile Island, really it was not a big deal at all.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And per the later post citing Roubini, we are not through hedge fund failures. He thinks the worst is yet to come, and some hedge funds were protection writers. Now none of them may big enough players to do much damage individually (protection writing was concentrated in about ten firms), but if there were to be liquidations/failures in close succession, we might see some unravelling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D,</p>
<p>Why do you think AIG needed $85 billion + $38 biliion + another $10 billion of rescue money from the Fed? That was for their CDS exposures. Had they gone under, everyone is agreed it would have constituted a systemic event. And the fact the numbers keep getting bigger says there is serious stress.</p>
<p>Just because the officialdom threw $133 billion at AIG to avert a crisis, and may have succeeded, you now argue that because there were no disastrous outcomes, there was no risk.  That is tantamount to saying that because no one died as a result of Three Mile Island, really it was not a big deal at all.</p>
<p>And per the later post citing Roubini, we are not through hedge fund failures. He thinks the worst is yet to come, and some hedge funds were protection writers. Now none of them may big enough players to do much damage individually (protection writing was concentrated in about ten firms), but if there were to be liquidations/failures in close succession, we might see some unravelling.</p>
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		<title>By: D</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cds-too-risky-for-cme-trading-key.html#comment-22781</link>
		<dc:creator>D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>With regards to CDS&#039;, has it really been that bad?  I know there&#039;s been a lot of hysteria...and this lack of confidence has been troublesome...but past that---I&#039;m just not seeing what the super-charged fuss is all about.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The recent LEH auction was quite orderly.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;WM, also appears to be going without a hitch.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;After reading blogs like this, I was expecting MUCH worse.  It just hasn&#039;t been that bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regards to CDS&#8217;, has it really been that bad?  I know there&#8217;s been a lot of hysteria&#8230;and this lack of confidence has been troublesome&#8230;but past that&#8212;I&#8217;m just not seeing what the super-charged fuss is all about.</p>
<p>The recent LEH auction was quite orderly.</p>
<p>WM, also appears to be going without a hitch.</p>
<p>After reading blogs like this, I was expecting MUCH worse.  It just hasn&#8217;t been that bad.</p>
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		<title>By: wintermute</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cds-too-risky-for-cme-trading-key.html#comment-22775</link>
		<dc:creator>wintermute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yves. You once said that derivatives were like drugs - all have a place - but need to be used appropriately.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The simple solution with CDS is to make it illegal to purchase CDS that exceeds your holding of the underlying bonds issued by the refrence entity.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Further. If your bond holding is very liquid then you just have to accept that full CDS insurance may not be possible. Contracts must have a cancellation clause which takes effect if/when the CDS purchaser has received settlement funds upon sale of underlying bonds. There needs to be a duty to notify CDS writer that contact is now void.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This will cap the value of all CDS to the total issuance of the companies/entities covered. It may even overcome the concerns raised about exchange trading.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There is still a problem with managing transference to 3rd parties. Perhaps that should only be possible for exchanged traded CDS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yves. You once said that derivatives were like drugs &#8211; all have a place &#8211; but need to be used appropriately.</p>
<p>The simple solution with CDS is to make it illegal to purchase CDS that exceeds your holding of the underlying bonds issued by the refrence entity.</p>
<p>Further. If your bond holding is very liquid then you just have to accept that full CDS insurance may not be possible. Contracts must have a cancellation clause which takes effect if/when the CDS purchaser has received settlement funds upon sale of underlying bonds. There needs to be a duty to notify CDS writer that contact is now void.</p>
<p>This will cap the value of all CDS to the total issuance of the companies/entities covered. It may even overcome the concerns raised about exchange trading.</p>
<p>There is still a problem with managing transference to 3rd parties. Perhaps that should only be possible for exchanged traded CDS.</p>
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		<title>By: chuck roast</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cds-too-risky-for-cme-trading-key.html#comment-22747</link>
		<dc:creator>chuck roast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is an opaque financial market that currently threatens the world financial system.  In my neighborhood the market for heroin, a derivative of opium, is considered grossly anti-social and those that actively make a market in heroin are considered economic predators.  Consequently, the heroin market is actively suppressed.  Merely because a &quot;market&quot; exist for a &quot;financial product&quot;, we shouldn&#039;t automatically presume that the product adds social value. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Perhaps, like the market for heroin, Congress should consider whether the market for CDS and similar derivatives is simply a creation of financial speculators and predators, provides no positive social function and may actively undermine our political economy.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Here is a case where a market has not only delivered a grossly inefficient outcome, but it appears to be a product that does not conform to the public interest.  This is a market that Congress should consider dismantling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an opaque financial market that currently threatens the world financial system.  In my neighborhood the market for heroin, a derivative of opium, is considered grossly anti-social and those that actively make a market in heroin are considered economic predators.  Consequently, the heroin market is actively suppressed.  Merely because a &#8220;market&#8221; exist for a &#8220;financial product&#8221;, we shouldn&#8217;t automatically presume that the product adds social value. </p>
<p>Perhaps, like the market for heroin, Congress should consider whether the market for CDS and similar derivatives is simply a creation of financial speculators and predators, provides no positive social function and may actively undermine our political economy.</p>
<p>Here is a case where a market has not only delivered a grossly inefficient outcome, but it appears to be a product that does not conform to the public interest.  This is a market that Congress should consider dismantling.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cds-too-risky-for-cme-trading-key.html#comment-22743</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Alas, the payout on the CDS is uncertain. On a $10MM notional the payout could be anwhere from $1.00 to $10MM.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;What would then be the intial margin?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alas, the payout on the CDS is uncertain. On a $10MM notional the payout could be anwhere from $1.00 to $10MM.</p>
<p>What would then be the intial margin?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cds-too-risky-for-cme-trading-key.html#comment-22735</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>A CDS seller on a single name should deposit 100% initial margin. The only authorized way to post less than that should be to have a diversified portfolio of CDS&#039;s. THe portfolio margin should be determined using market implied correlation on standard tranches CDO&#039;s (that would be cleared on the exchange too).&lt;br/&gt;Anyway, there is no escape &lt;br/&gt;: the exchange margins are going to be way superior to the add-ons of OTC derivatives. That is part of the deleveraging story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A CDS seller on a single name should deposit 100% initial margin. The only authorized way to post less than that should be to have a diversified portfolio of CDS&#8217;s. THe portfolio margin should be determined using market implied correlation on standard tranches CDO&#8217;s (that would be cleared on the exchange too).<br />Anyway, there is no escape <br />: the exchange margins are going to be way superior to the add-ons of OTC derivatives. That is part of the deleveraging story.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cds-too-risky-for-cme-trading-key.html#comment-22730</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;How on earth does the Clearing House expect do that with illiquid CDS?&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Limit exchange traded CDS to fungible CDS.  Make any CDS that is not exchange traded illegal, and writer/buyer punishable by 5 years in prison and 200% of expected profits for each count.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;How on earth does the Clearing House expect do that with illiquid CDS?&#8221;</p>
<p>Limit exchange traded CDS to fungible CDS.  Make any CDS that is not exchange traded illegal, and writer/buyer punishable by 5 years in prison and 200% of expected profits for each count.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cds-too-risky-for-cme-trading-key.html#comment-22724</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Finally, people are waking up to the problem of clearing single name CDS!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Clearing Houses also depend on the ability of being able to transfer a failed position to someone else.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A trader can&#039;t meet a margin call on a future that he sold at 100 that is now trading at 110.  The Clearing House will transfer the short futures positon to another trader and along with the $10.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The Clearing House can even buy futures temporarily to hedge their positon. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;How on earth does the Clearing House expect do that with illiquid CDS?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally, people are waking up to the problem of clearing single name CDS!</p>
<p>Clearing Houses also depend on the ability of being able to transfer a failed position to someone else.</p>
<p>A trader can&#8217;t meet a margin call on a future that he sold at 100 that is now trading at 110.  The Clearing House will transfer the short futures positon to another trader and along with the $10.</p>
<p>The Clearing House can even buy futures temporarily to hedge their positon. </p>
<p>How on earth does the Clearing House expect do that with illiquid CDS?</p>
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