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	<title>Comments on: Cuomo Seeks to Claw Back AIG Bonuses</title>
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	<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cumom-seeks-to-claw-back-aig-bonuses.html</link>
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		<title>By: MattJ</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cumom-seeks-to-claw-back-aig-bonuses.html#comment-22303</link>
		<dc:creator>MattJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 16:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interesting approach; can AIG follow it up by clawing back the taxes they and their officers paid on fraudulent profits?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting approach; can AIG follow it up by clawing back the taxes they and their officers paid on fraudulent profits?</p>
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		<title>By: DownSouth</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cumom-seeks-to-claw-back-aig-bonuses.html#comment-21892</link>
		<dc:creator>DownSouth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I would think the discovery process here might be just as or even more important than the ultimate verdict.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;When you start turning over rocks, there&#039;s no telling what you might find crawling underneath.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would think the discovery process here might be just as or even more important than the ultimate verdict.</p>
<p>When you start turning over rocks, there&#8217;s no telling what you might find crawling underneath.</p>
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		<title>By: tz</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cumom-seeks-to-claw-back-aig-bonuses.html#comment-21887</link>
		<dc:creator>tz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is one of those &quot;innocent fraud&quot; cases.  They paid themselves big bonuses on the basis of profits.  Those bonuses were real.  They did not pay themselves in stock which vests only in 5 years.  It was like a dividend check.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I don&#039;t know about AIG, but lots of &quot;mark-to-market&quot; was find when the market was paying a premium.  Many extracted that premium which only existed on the books into their accounts.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;They required the government to bail them out.  It isn&#039;t too much to ask if there were huge errors in the valuations that it be corrected on all sides.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;No more than a huge sales bonus paid on orders that were all from friends that cancelled them on the first day of the next quarter after the bonus was paid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is one of those &#8220;innocent fraud&#8221; cases.  They paid themselves big bonuses on the basis of profits.  Those bonuses were real.  They did not pay themselves in stock which vests only in 5 years.  It was like a dividend check.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about AIG, but lots of &#8220;mark-to-market&#8221; was find when the market was paying a premium.  Many extracted that premium which only existed on the books into their accounts.</p>
<p>They required the government to bail them out.  It isn&#8217;t too much to ask if there were huge errors in the valuations that it be corrected on all sides.</p>
<p>No more than a huge sales bonus paid on orders that were all from friends that cancelled them on the first day of the next quarter after the bonus was paid.</p>
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		<title>By: Blissex</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cumom-seeks-to-claw-back-aig-bonuses.html#comment-21885</link>
		<dc:creator>Blissex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, in jurisdictions with somewhat less weak bankruptcy laws than the the USA, all payments made in the last 6 months or a year before a bankruptcy are clawed back, and the payees join the list of creditors, and good luck.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In particular, *discretionary* payments are seen as first evidence of bankruptcy fraud (&quot;take out&quot; fraud).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Anyhow bonuses to CEOs, CFOs, vice presidents are usually owed on the basis of a formula related to profits; a very good argument can be made that those profits were misreported by the culprits and therefore the bonuses are simply not owed.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But hey, when so many years of so many company accounts were restated in the wave of accounting fraud cases a few years ago, were the bonuses paid on the basis of fraudulently reported profits clawed back?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Of course no, because CEOs and CFOs and vice presidents are the best and brightest, the most productive americans, and WINNERS take all!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As to that, I am still waiting to see a number of convictions for the massive income tax fraud achieved with backdated options, but fat chance of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, in jurisdictions with somewhat less weak bankruptcy laws than the the USA, all payments made in the last 6 months or a year before a bankruptcy are clawed back, and the payees join the list of creditors, and good luck.</p>
<p>In particular, *discretionary* payments are seen as first evidence of bankruptcy fraud (&#8221;take out&#8221; fraud).</p>
<p>Anyhow bonuses to CEOs, CFOs, vice presidents are usually owed on the basis of a formula related to profits; a very good argument can be made that those profits were misreported by the culprits and therefore the bonuses are simply not owed.</p>
<p>But hey, when so many years of so many company accounts were restated in the wave of accounting fraud cases a few years ago, were the bonuses paid on the basis of fraudulently reported profits clawed back?</p>
<p>Of course no, because CEOs and CFOs and vice presidents are the best and brightest, the most productive americans, and WINNERS take all!</p>
<p>As to that, I am still waiting to see a number of convictions for the massive income tax fraud achieved with backdated options, but fat chance of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cumom-seeks-to-claw-back-aig-bonuses.html#comment-21857</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 06:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Bank bailout and executive pay:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;1. &quot;how much do you think a bank CEO makes per day/week&quot; and &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;2. &quot;who covers the fat guy&#039;s salary under the bailout plan&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://financialtraders.blogspot.com/2008/10/bank-bailout-and-executive-pay.html&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;PS: Answer to 2. is YOU!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bank bailout and executive pay:</p>
<p>1. &#8220;how much do you think a bank CEO makes per day/week&#8221; and </p>
<p>2. &#8220;who covers the fat guy&#8217;s salary under the bailout plan&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://financialtraders.blogspot.com/2008/10/bank-bailout-and-executive-pay.html" rel="nofollow">http://financialtraders.blogspot.com/2008/10/bank-bailout-and-executive-pay.html</a></p>
<p>PS: Answer to 2. is YOU!</p>
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		<title>By: CrocodileChuck</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cumom-seeks-to-claw-back-aig-bonuses.html#comment-21853</link>
		<dc:creator>CrocodileChuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 05:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yves&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The Australian PM, Kevin Rudd, inveighs against &#039;exteme capitalism&#039; (exec. remuneration in finance sector) in today&#039;s Fairfax press.  (four days after the govt instituted a &#039;full deposit insurance regime&#039; for a period of three years&#039;).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And, APRA (our bank regulator) has gone on record to state that it is developing a model &#039;not just for Australia, but also for review by the G20 and other international institutions, of how excessive compensation can be reigned in&#039;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This is one for the zeitgeist.  May we live in interesting times...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;CrocodileChuck</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yves</p>
<p>The Australian PM, Kevin Rudd, inveighs against &#8216;exteme capitalism&#8217; (exec. remuneration in finance sector) in today&#8217;s Fairfax press.  (four days after the govt instituted a &#8216;full deposit insurance regime&#8217; for a period of three years&#8217;).</p>
<p>And, APRA (our bank regulator) has gone on record to state that it is developing a model &#8216;not just for Australia, but also for review by the G20 and other international institutions, of how excessive compensation can be reigned in&#8217;</p>
<p>This is one for the zeitgeist.  May we live in interesting times&#8230;</p>
<p>CrocodileChuck</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cumom-seeks-to-claw-back-aig-bonuses.html#comment-21852</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 05:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ag clawing back bonuses ex post facto?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;NFW&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Would be wonderful, but only happens in frank capra movies.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;tomd</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ag clawing back bonuses ex post facto?</p>
<p>NFW</p>
<p>Would be wonderful, but only happens in frank capra movies.</p>
<p>tomd</p>
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		<title>By: Yves Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cumom-seeks-to-claw-back-aig-bonuses.html#comment-21851</link>
		<dc:creator>Yves Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 05:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cuomo-seeks-to-claw-back-aig-bonuses/#comment-21851</guid>
		<description>Carrick,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Thanks but the &quot;Recent Posts&quot; takes a while, sometimes a very long while, to update. I saw the typo in the title earlier and fixed it, but  I don&#039;t control &quot;Recent Posts.&quot; So apologies!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carrick,</p>
<p>Thanks but the &#8220;Recent Posts&#8221; takes a while, sometimes a very long while, to update. I saw the typo in the title earlier and fixed it, but  I don&#8217;t control &#8220;Recent Posts.&#8221; So apologies!</p>
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		<title>By: Carrick</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cumom-seeks-to-claw-back-aig-bonuses.html#comment-21850</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 05:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>In case you missed it, Cuomo is misspelled in the title.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In case you missed it, Cuomo is misspelled in the title.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/cumom-seeks-to-claw-back-aig-bonuses.html#comment-21841</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 03:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>He should take care of existing CEO first! Hypocrisy?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Comments from CR:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;&lt;br/&gt; Yet, bailout plan guarantees banking CEO 70M salary!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://www.marketwarnings.com/2008/10/bail-out-plans-and-ceo-salaries-lloyd.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He should take care of existing CEO first! Hypocrisy?</p>
<p>Comments from CR:</p>
<p>&#8220;<br /> Yet, bailout plan guarantees banking CEO 70M salary!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.marketwarnings.com/2008/10/bail-out-plans-and-ceo-salaries-lloyd.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.marketwarnings.com/2008/10/bail-out-plans-and-ceo-salaries-lloyd.html</a></p>
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