<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Germany Relents, Drafting Plan for Bank Rescue Facility</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank.html</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:08:55 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: melpol</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank.html#comment-21108</link>
		<dc:creator>melpol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank-rescue-facility/#comment-21108</guid>
		<description>No finagling at the top alone will restore the American economy. 75 percent of the economy is driven by the spending of ordinary consumers and they are frightened. Call it PTS and it will not be cured easily. The distribution of free booze and Prozac will jerk start spending again. That is the only quick fix that is possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No finagling at the top alone will restore the American economy. 75 percent of the economy is driven by the spending of ordinary consumers and they are frightened. Call it PTS and it will not be cured easily. The distribution of free booze and Prozac will jerk start spending again. That is the only quick fix that is possible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank.html#comment-21051</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 16:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank-rescue-facility/#comment-21051</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a Euro too. The Yanks are expensive, violent, and atavistic. They&#039;ve pushed the entire world back into the 19th c., but armed with radioactive weapons and toxic securities.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It is financial war Yves. &lt;b&gt;You act as though the Paulson plan is a solution when it&#039;s actually a means to create a US banking oligarchy.&lt;/b&gt; These emergency conditions are totally manufactured. A simple proof: Look at how quiet the weekend is compared to the weekly rollercoaster from hell. Having lived through a few myself, I can tell you that a real storm doesn&#039;t take weekend breathers.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;States ultimately dominate the banks and seek to dominate each other. &lt;i&gt;This is a crisis of sovereignty not merely profit.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Post asset devaluation the US intends to use its trillions in &quot;bailout&quot; money to buy up cheap assets then flood the world with liquidity to devalue its debt. The &quot;bailouts&quot; will weaken the dollar and wreck international trade by design. They&#039;ve led the world into chaos and plan more chaos to gain ground. Isn&#039;t it obvious that stability is not the US government&#039;s interest?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It is naive to think that the US wants to save the world economic system when it is clearly interested in saving only its own banking elite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a Euro too. The Yanks are expensive, violent, and atavistic. They&#8217;ve pushed the entire world back into the 19th c., but armed with radioactive weapons and toxic securities.</p>
<p>It is financial war Yves. <b>You act as though the Paulson plan is a solution when it&#8217;s actually a means to create a US banking oligarchy.</b> These emergency conditions are totally manufactured. A simple proof: Look at how quiet the weekend is compared to the weekly rollercoaster from hell. Having lived through a few myself, I can tell you that a real storm doesn&#8217;t take weekend breathers.</p>
<p>States ultimately dominate the banks and seek to dominate each other. <i>This is a crisis of sovereignty not merely profit.</i></p>
<p>Post asset devaluation the US intends to use its trillions in &#8220;bailout&#8221; money to buy up cheap assets then flood the world with liquidity to devalue its debt. The &#8220;bailouts&#8221; will weaken the dollar and wreck international trade by design. They&#8217;ve led the world into chaos and plan more chaos to gain ground. Isn&#8217;t it obvious that stability is not the US government&#8217;s interest?</p>
<p>It is naive to think that the US wants to save the world economic system when it is clearly interested in saving only its own banking elite.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank.html#comment-21025</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank-rescue-facility/#comment-21025</guid>
		<description>See what does come out of the Euro-zone 15 meeting in Paris today. It is covered quite widely in the French and German papers this morning with an outline of what to expect.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Yesterday&#039;s opening of the De Gaulle memorial at Colombey-les-Deux-Eglises featured &quot;sozial markt wirtschaft&quot; language from both Sarkozy and Merkel. There is a need to shape markets to serve people and not be destructive is a formulation among the reports. Markel is quoted widely with an adaption of an old French saying &quot;chacun ses onions&quot; to &quot;chacun sa merde&quot; which I guess means &quot;everyone clean up their own mess.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It might be that &quot;clean-up&quot; and &quot;way forward&quot; can be treated under different headings of discussion.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Brown was invited to a pre-meeting with Sarkozy, Trichet and the EC commissioner to lay out his plan. I don&#039;t think Brown will be attending the Eurozone-15 meeting because UK isn&#039;t in it.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There will be reports on this over the late morning and early afternoon I think. French and German governments look like they will be implementing tomorrow.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think this is something which has been prepared over a longer time, and it will be worth paying attention to the words used to present what is proposed as well as what ever the proposals are as a practical matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See what does come out of the Euro-zone 15 meeting in Paris today. It is covered quite widely in the French and German papers this morning with an outline of what to expect.</p>
<p>Yesterday&#8217;s opening of the De Gaulle memorial at Colombey-les-Deux-Eglises featured &#8220;sozial markt wirtschaft&#8221; language from both Sarkozy and Merkel. There is a need to shape markets to serve people and not be destructive is a formulation among the reports. Markel is quoted widely with an adaption of an old French saying &#8220;chacun ses onions&#8221; to &#8220;chacun sa merde&#8221; which I guess means &#8220;everyone clean up their own mess.&#8221;</p>
<p>It might be that &#8220;clean-up&#8221; and &#8220;way forward&#8221; can be treated under different headings of discussion.</p>
<p>Brown was invited to a pre-meeting with Sarkozy, Trichet and the EC commissioner to lay out his plan. I don&#8217;t think Brown will be attending the Eurozone-15 meeting because UK isn&#8217;t in it.</p>
<p>There will be reports on this over the late morning and early afternoon I think. French and German governments look like they will be implementing tomorrow.</p>
<p>I think this is something which has been prepared over a longer time, and it will be worth paying attention to the words used to present what is proposed as well as what ever the proposals are as a practical matter.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank.html#comment-21012</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank-rescue-facility/#comment-21012</guid>
		<description>As a Euro I say let&#039;s sink the Yanks. This debacle is US made. Kick them out of NATO. Put up an Atlantic barrier. Make friends with the Russians and the Arabs and dump the dollar.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A unified Europe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Euro I say let&#8217;s sink the Yanks. This debacle is US made. Kick them out of NATO. Put up an Atlantic barrier. Make friends with the Russians and the Arabs and dump the dollar.</p>
<p>A unified Europe.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank.html#comment-20976</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 07:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank-rescue-facility/#comment-20976</guid>
		<description>Matt Dubuque &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;When you quote someone just cut and paste. Then you won&#039;t leave any words out. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I said &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;“... all-out war going on between the United States and the EU to define the future face of __European__ banking.”&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Of course this is not the endgame. This is a move on Europe. China comes later. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If we allow fear to dissuade us. If we worry about the millions who will suffer - and millions _will_  suffer terribly – then next time you will have to worry about tens or hundreds of suffering millions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt Dubuque </p>
<p>When you quote someone just cut and paste. Then you won&#8217;t leave any words out. </p>
<p>I said </p>
<p>“&#8230; all-out war going on between the United States and the EU to define the future face of __European__ banking.”</p>
<p>Of course this is not the endgame. This is a move on Europe. China comes later. </p>
<p>If we allow fear to dissuade us. If we worry about the millions who will suffer &#8211; and millions _will_  suffer terribly – then next time you will have to worry about tens or hundreds of suffering millions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kevin de bruxelles</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank.html#comment-20971</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin de bruxelles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank-rescue-facility/#comment-20971</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not seeing in the FT article the suggestion for a change in policy from the current nation-to-nation solution to a EU-level solution.  The closest it comes is the quote about: &quot;a systemic solution . . . I am convinced that case-by-case solutions are no longer helping. They are now exhausted&quot;.  But the system he is discussing is either the German system or at the limit the global system.  That is reinforced by the next statement about coordinating action with France.  That tells me the plan is still government-to-government in Europe, with the governments themselves closely coordinating, but not at the EU level. What this means is that funds for say an Italian bailout will still come from Italy, etc.  I have heard nothing that suggests an EU-level fund that would effectively transfer money from the countries with a successful economic history to those countries with less stellar economic traditions in Europe.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In other words each country is still responsible for its own banks, the only  change is that the individual nations will coordinate more closely their policies and solutions.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Let’s wait and see, maybe I am missing something,  but in my mind the EU would insist on radical changes to the political architecture of Europe before taking on a job similar to the US Treasury.  And Germany and France would insist on safeguards against a majority of the nations of the periphery  voting to fire up the printing presses.   As it stands there is an insufficient amount of political legitimacy on the EU level and so it is not yet ready to take the politically difficult decisions of choosing winners and losers among European banks; let alone ot order on the EU-level the transfer of funds from say Germany to Italy.  Any such move today would put the entire EU project in danger.  While most rational people would agree that ideally the EU would possess the institutions capable of making these decisions; it will take a lot of work after the current crisis is resolved to bring those fundamental changes to reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not seeing in the FT article the suggestion for a change in policy from the current nation-to-nation solution to a EU-level solution.  The closest it comes is the quote about: &#8220;a systemic solution . . . I am convinced that case-by-case solutions are no longer helping. They are now exhausted&#8221;.  But the system he is discussing is either the German system or at the limit the global system.  That is reinforced by the next statement about coordinating action with France.  That tells me the plan is still government-to-government in Europe, with the governments themselves closely coordinating, but not at the EU level. What this means is that funds for say an Italian bailout will still come from Italy, etc.  I have heard nothing that suggests an EU-level fund that would effectively transfer money from the countries with a successful economic history to those countries with less stellar economic traditions in Europe.</p>
<p>In other words each country is still responsible for its own banks, the only  change is that the individual nations will coordinate more closely their policies and solutions.  </p>
<p>Let’s wait and see, maybe I am missing something,  but in my mind the EU would insist on radical changes to the political architecture of Europe before taking on a job similar to the US Treasury.  And Germany and France would insist on safeguards against a majority of the nations of the periphery  voting to fire up the printing presses.   As it stands there is an insufficient amount of political legitimacy on the EU level and so it is not yet ready to take the politically difficult decisions of choosing winners and losers among European banks; let alone ot order on the EU-level the transfer of funds from say Germany to Italy.  Any such move today would put the entire EU project in danger.  While most rational people would agree that ideally the EU would possess the institutions capable of making these decisions; it will take a lot of work after the current crisis is resolved to bring those fundamental changes to reality.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Kline</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank.html#comment-20965</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Kline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 05:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank-rescue-facility/#comment-20965</guid>
		<description>Well, well, wadda yah know; the Deutsch are finally passing through customs at the landing gate of the airport of reality.  The idea that they could go it alone is piffle.  Their economy is integrated; their currency is integrated; their _banks_ are integrated in how they operate.  Their regulatory structure is fragmented, and their fiscs are segregated, but a crisis sinks ALL on board.  Sovereignty is a thing of the past in the EU.  Germany can either pull on the oars along with the rest or go down with them; sensibly they are reaching for the oars.  What the Germans should do is to make damn sure that _they_ set HARD conditions for the restructure of finance in the EU immediately after the crisis peak.  Like hard caps on profligate spending without revenue in member states, and a tight, common regulatory framework.  You&#039;ve got to pay, kamerade, but power is lying on the table so collect your winnings for your chips.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This crisis is harsh; the hopes and dreams of many are trapped below decks and aren&#039;t going to make it.  But what I _like_ about it is how quickly self-serving socio-political illusions are colliding nose first with the cold hard surface of The Way Things Really Are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, well, wadda yah know; the Deutsch are finally passing through customs at the landing gate of the airport of reality.  The idea that they could go it alone is piffle.  Their economy is integrated; their currency is integrated; their _banks_ are integrated in how they operate.  Their regulatory structure is fragmented, and their fiscs are segregated, but a crisis sinks ALL on board.  Sovereignty is a thing of the past in the EU.  Germany can either pull on the oars along with the rest or go down with them; sensibly they are reaching for the oars.  What the Germans should do is to make damn sure that _they_ set HARD conditions for the restructure of finance in the EU immediately after the crisis peak.  Like hard caps on profligate spending without revenue in member states, and a tight, common regulatory framework.  You&#8217;ve got to pay, kamerade, but power is lying on the table so collect your winnings for your chips.  </p>
<p>This crisis is harsh; the hopes and dreams of many are trapped below decks and aren&#8217;t going to make it.  But what I _like_ about it is how quickly self-serving socio-political illusions are colliding nose first with the cold hard surface of The Way Things Really Are.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Yves Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank.html#comment-20929</link>
		<dc:creator>Yves Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 02:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank-rescue-facility/#comment-20929</guid>
		<description>The FT (and British press in general) does not hew to the US convention of saying &quot;according to several sources&quot; or &quot;according to a source&quot;. And I am told that the art of spin is not practiced as actively on the other side of the pond as here.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Their source may be wrong, or a fluid situation may decay, but I&#039;d take the FT any day, hands down, over any US MSM outlet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The FT (and British press in general) does not hew to the US convention of saying &#8220;according to several sources&#8221; or &#8220;according to a source&#8221;. And I am told that the art of spin is not practiced as actively on the other side of the pond as here.</p>
<p>Their source may be wrong, or a fluid situation may decay, but I&#8217;d take the FT any day, hands down, over any US MSM outlet.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank.html#comment-20927</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 01:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank-rescue-facility/#comment-20927</guid>
		<description>I flat disbelieve the FT report. It&#039;s unsourced and probably push media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I flat disbelieve the FT report. It&#8217;s unsourced and probably push media.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt Dubuque</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank.html#comment-20919</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Dubuque</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 00:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/germany-relents-drafting-plan-for-bank-rescue-facility/#comment-20919</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think what is occurring can ultimately be described as &quot;an all out battle between the US and Europe over the future shape of banking&quot;.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Surely the endgame structures need to include the Chinese in a major and central way.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;They are the ones, after all, with the cold hard cash.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And they are brilliant negotiators, negotiating along the lines of &quot;What&#039;s mine is mine and what&#039;s yours is negotiable&quot;.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And we are a LONG way from the endgame.   This is just the end of the first phase, when the credit catastrophe BEGINS to affect the real economy.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There is MUCH more to come.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Everything is ad hoc until the Chinese are on board.  They have veto power.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Is this why Paul Volcker is in Asia now?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think what is occurring can ultimately be described as &#8220;an all out battle between the US and Europe over the future shape of banking&#8221;.</p>
<p>Surely the endgame structures need to include the Chinese in a major and central way.</p>
<p>They are the ones, after all, with the cold hard cash.</p>
<p>And they are brilliant negotiators, negotiating along the lines of &#8220;What&#8217;s mine is mine and what&#8217;s yours is negotiable&#8221;.</p>
<p>And we are a LONG way from the endgame.   This is just the end of the first phase, when the credit catastrophe BEGINS to affect the real economy.</p>
<p>There is MUCH more to come.</p>
<p>Everything is ad hoc until the Chinese are on board.  They have veto power.</p>
<p>Is this why Paul Volcker is in Asia now?</p>
<p>Matt</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
