Comments on: How Lehman Blew Up the City of London http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-city-of-london.html Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:23:14 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Ginger Yellow http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-city-of-london.html#comment-22385 Ginger Yellow Mon, 20 Oct 2008 09:53:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-the-city-of-london/#comment-22385 "The precedent set in that case means that individuals involved in financial transactions that were legal in the UK can still be prosecuted for violating US laws if the victims resided there."<br/><br/>Um, that's true for any crime, anywhere. The one-way extradition set-up is screwy, it's true, but if you commit a crime as a resident in a country, you shouldn't be surprised if you get prosecuted for it. And the NatWest 3 were certainly no martyrs.<br/><br/>On the main point of the thread, I've no love for Maggie, but it's fair to say that New Labour shares just as much of the blame on this front. They've consistently shied away from tighter regulation of hedge funds, despite making lots of noise, because they were dazzled by the argument that fund managers would take all their tax money overseas. “The precedent set in that case means that individuals involved in financial transactions that were legal in the UK can still be prosecuted for violating US laws if the victims resided there.”

Um, that’s true for any crime, anywhere. The one-way extradition set-up is screwy, it’s true, but if you commit a crime as a resident in a country, you shouldn’t be surprised if you get prosecuted for it. And the NatWest 3 were certainly no martyrs.

On the main point of the thread, I’ve no love for Maggie, but it’s fair to say that New Labour shares just as much of the blame on this front. They’ve consistently shied away from tighter regulation of hedge funds, despite making lots of noise, because they were dazzled by the argument that fund managers would take all their tax money overseas.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-city-of-london.html#comment-22369 Anonymous Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:49:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-the-city-of-london/#comment-22369 Try the financial stability forum. They have been working on this problem for years and have made many recommendations that were ignored.<br/><br/>http://www.fsforum.org/index.htm Try the financial stability forum. They have been working on this problem for years and have made many recommendations that were ignored.

http://www.fsforum.org/index.htm

]]> By: Glory's List http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-city-of-london.html#comment-22363 Glory's List Mon, 20 Oct 2008 05:47:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-the-city-of-london/#comment-22363 I think things will definately get worse in London, i.e., all eyes will soon turn from the Lehman train wreck to the Madonna-Ritchie train wreak. The fallout is expected to be considerable I'm afraid, and expect no bailout:<br/><br/>"Expect more ‘ugliness’ in Madonna-Ritchie split:"<br/><br/>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27271281/ I think things will definately get worse in London, i.e., all eyes will soon turn from the Lehman train wreck to the Madonna-Ritchie train wreak. The fallout is expected to be considerable I’m afraid, and expect no bailout:

“Expect more ‘ugliness’ in Madonna-Ritchie split:”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27271281/

]]> By: Glory's List http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-city-of-london.html#comment-53888 Glory's List Mon, 20 Oct 2008 05:47:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-the-city-of-london/#comment-53888 I think things will definately get worse in London, i.e., all eyes will soon turn from the Lehman train wreck to the Madonna-Ritchie train wreak. The fallout is expected to be considerable I'm afraid, and expect no bailout:<br/><br/>"Expect more ‘ugliness’ in Madonna-Ritchie split:"<br/><br/>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27271281/ I think things will definately get worse in London, i.e., all eyes will soon turn from the Lehman train wreck to the Madonna-Ritchie train wreak. The fallout is expected to be considerable I’m afraid, and expect no bailout:

“Expect more ‘ugliness’ in Madonna-Ritchie split:”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27271281/

]]> By: Raf http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-city-of-london.html#comment-22335 Raf Sun, 19 Oct 2008 21:31:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-the-city-of-london/#comment-22335 Anon: Re Fiat system...Gold doesn't stop monetary collapses. The first run on the Bank of England started shortly after its incorporation<br/><br/>http://sustento.org.nz/the-first-run-on-the-bank-of-england/<br/><br/><br/>Also in terms of boom/bust cycles they have been happening every 18 years in the UK. Read about the City of Liverpool nearly going under in 1794 due to speculation in rents from canals<br/><br/>http://sustento.org.nz/credit-crunched/<br/><br/>Plus ca change eh? Anon: Re Fiat system…Gold doesn’t stop monetary collapses. The first run on the Bank of England started shortly after its incorporation

http://sustento.org.nz/the-first-run-on-the-bank-of-england/

Also in terms of boom/bust cycles they have been happening every 18 years in the UK. Read about the City of Liverpool nearly going under in 1794 due to speculation in rents from canals

http://sustento.org.nz/credit-crunched/

Plus ca change eh?

]]> By: Matt Dubuque http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-city-of-london.html#comment-22321 Matt Dubuque Sun, 19 Oct 2008 19:47:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-the-city-of-london/#comment-22321 Matt Dubuque<br/><br/>Anonymous at 1215:<br/><br/>In terms of the 7 up series, you will likely remember the "sudden" transformation in 49-Up of the little East Ender miscreant who in 7-Up stated that fighting is a necessary part of life.<br/><br/>In 49-up he had now turned around his life and bought a little "palace" in Spain.... it now looks highly likely that the property he purchased was part of the Spanish real estate bubble.<br/><br/>Can't wait for 56 up to see how that story plays out!<br/><br/>Matt Dubuque<br/>nospammdubuque@yahoo.com Matt Dubuque

Anonymous at 1215:

In terms of the 7 up series, you will likely remember the “sudden” transformation in 49-Up of the little East Ender miscreant who in 7-Up stated that fighting is a necessary part of life.

In 49-up he had now turned around his life and bought a little “palace” in Spain…. it now looks highly likely that the property he purchased was part of the Spanish real estate bubble.

Can’t wait for 56 up to see how that story plays out!

Matt Dubuque
nospammdubuque@yahoo.com

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-city-of-london.html#comment-22319 Anonymous Sun, 19 Oct 2008 19:38:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-the-city-of-london/#comment-22319 When was the last time the world had a completely fiat monetary system?<br/>Precisely. Would it really be surprising that the result might be orders of magnitude worse than than the civilizational meltdown in the first half of the 20th century. Couldn't happen? How do you prove denial of the future? When was the last time the world had a completely fiat monetary system?
Precisely. Would it really be surprising that the result might be orders of magnitude worse than than the civilizational meltdown in the first half of the 20th century. Couldn’t happen? How do you prove denial of the future?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-city-of-london.html#comment-22318 Anonymous Sun, 19 Oct 2008 19:23:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-the-city-of-london/#comment-22318 Given what happened to the Nat West 3 there must be some bankers based in London who should be worried about being extradited to the US to face trial <br/><br/>http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article3411092.ece<br/><br/>The precedent set in that case means that individuals involved in financial transactions that were legal in the UK can still be prosecuted for violating US laws if the victims resided there. Given what happened to the Nat West 3 there must be some bankers based in London who should be worried about being extradited to the US to face trial

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article3411092.ece

The precedent set in that case means that individuals involved in financial transactions that were legal in the UK can still be prosecuted for violating US laws if the victims resided there.

]]> By: Aaron Krowne http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-city-of-london.html#comment-22315 Aaron Krowne Sun, 19 Oct 2008 18:32:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-the-city-of-london/#comment-22315 Ah, the eternal folly of a fractional reserve system. Since it's not real money, why stop at lending the same credits out only once?<br/><br/>Don't congratulate the US too much; over here they gave a wink and nod to de facto fraud like Citigroup's $2 trillion of off balance sheet SIVs and VIEs. <br/><br/>Seems like, as long as the government approves of this general system, they will find areas in which to allow enough credit hypothecation to generate at least a short-term "wealth effect". Ah, the eternal folly of a fractional reserve system. Since it’s not real money, why stop at lending the same credits out only once?

Don’t congratulate the US too much; over here they gave a wink and nod to de facto fraud like Citigroup’s $2 trillion of off balance sheet SIVs and VIEs.

Seems like, as long as the government approves of this general system, they will find areas in which to allow enough credit hypothecation to generate at least a short-term “wealth effect”.

]]> By: pow wow http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-city-of-london.html#comment-22311 pow wow Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:57:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/how-lehman-blew-up-the-city-of-london/#comment-22311 Well, in the 'fingers crossed' department, there seems to be at least some possibility that the U.S. Congress will actually listen to, study, and then proceed to <b>publicly and democratically debate</b> and enact the best ideas from a variety of government and <b>non</b>-government expert witnesses who are finally being invited to testify in full committee hearings, which are being pulled together during this campaign hiatus of Congress-as-a-whole. Putting on ice, perhaps, though way too late, the sort of <b>secret</b>, lobbyist-written, industry-rewarding, "leadership"-negotiated deals that have bypassed open Congressional hearings and honest debate to go straight into law in our corporate-financed, Party-leadership-ruled Congress of Parties-Not-Members, for far too long.<br/><br/>Here's the first of a number of promised hearings that (the apparently-conscientious and acting in good faith) Chris Dodd held last Thursday in the Senate Banking Committee (the committee members present for this hearing besides Dodd were Senators Crapo-ID, Akaka-HI, Brown-OH, Casey-PA, and Menendez-NJ); Dodd said he hopes to hear soon from two former Republican chairs of the SEC, in addition to Arthur Levitt's testimony on Thursday:<br/><br/><b>http://banking.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fuseaction=Hearings.Detail&HearingID=6de8e10c-e115-4686-9e40-ebceea2f1cb6</b><br/><br/>That Senate hearing is still being replayed by C-SPAN, and is available in its video archives, here:<br/><br/>http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=281812-1<br/><br/>Likewise, here's the line-up for the first meaningful committee of jurisdiction hearing (in HFSC) held since the Paulson Panic - scheduled for this <b>Tuesday at 10:00 a.m.</b>:<br/><br/><i><b>"This hearing will focus on the extent to which an outdated and weak regulatory system contributed to the current market turmoil and whether adoption of a stronger and more robust financial regulatory system could contribute to a more rapid recovery in the financial markets and the economy."</b></i><br/><br/>Witness List & Prepared Testimony:<br/><br/><b>Panel One</b><br/>The Honorable Alice M. Rivlin, Senior Fellow, Metropolitan Policy Program, Economic Studies, Director, Greater Washington Research Project, Brookings Institution<br/> <br/>Dr. Joseph E. Stiglitz, Professor Columbia University <br/><br/>Mr. Joel Seligman, President, University of Rochester <br/><br/>The Honorable Manuel H. Johnson, JohnsonSmick International <br/> <br/><br/><b>Panel Two</b><br/>The Honorable Steve Bartlett, President and Chief Executive Officer, The Financial Services Roundtable <br/><br/>Mr. Edward Yingling, President and Chief Executive Officer, American Bankers Association <br/><br/>Mr. T. Timothy Ryan, Jr., President and Chief Executive Officer, Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association <br/><br/>Mr. Mike Washburn, President and Chief Executive Officer, Red Mountain Bank on behalf of the Independent Community Bankers of America<br/><br/><br/><b>http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/hr102108.shtml</b> Well, in the ‘fingers crossed’ department, there seems to be at least some possibility that the U.S. Congress will actually listen to, study, and then proceed to publicly and democratically debate and enact the best ideas from a variety of government and non-government expert witnesses who are finally being invited to testify in full committee hearings, which are being pulled together during this campaign hiatus of Congress-as-a-whole. Putting on ice, perhaps, though way too late, the sort of secret, lobbyist-written, industry-rewarding, “leadership”-negotiated deals that have bypassed open Congressional hearings and honest debate to go straight into law in our corporate-financed, Party-leadership-ruled Congress of Parties-Not-Members, for far too long.

Here’s the first of a number of promised hearings that (the apparently-conscientious and acting in good faith) Chris Dodd held last Thursday in the Senate Banking Committee (the committee members present for this hearing besides Dodd were Senators Crapo-ID, Akaka-HI, Brown-OH, Casey-PA, and Menendez-NJ); Dodd said he hopes to hear soon from two former Republican chairs of the SEC, in addition to Arthur Levitt’s testimony on Thursday:

http://banking.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fuseaction=Hearings.Detail&HearingID=6de8e10c-e115-4686-9e40-ebceea2f1cb6

That Senate hearing is still being replayed by C-SPAN, and is available in its video archives, here:

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=281812-1

Likewise, here's the line-up for the first meaningful committee of jurisdiction hearing (in HFSC) held since the Paulson Panic – scheduled for this Tuesday at 10:00 a.m.:

“This hearing will focus on the extent to which an outdated and weak regulatory system contributed to the current market turmoil and whether adoption of a stronger and more robust financial regulatory system could contribute to a more rapid recovery in the financial markets and the economy.”

Witness List & Prepared Testimony:

Panel One
The Honorable Alice M. Rivlin, Senior Fellow, Metropolitan Policy Program, Economic Studies, Director, Greater Washington Research Project, Brookings Institution

Dr. Joseph E. Stiglitz, Professor Columbia University

Mr. Joel Seligman, President, University of Rochester

The Honorable Manuel H. Johnson, JohnsonSmick International

Panel Two
The Honorable Steve Bartlett, President and Chief Executive Officer, The Financial Services Roundtable

Mr. Edward Yingling, President and Chief Executive Officer, American Bankers Association

Mr. T. Timothy Ryan, Jr., President and Chief Executive Officer, Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association

Mr. Mike Washburn, President and Chief Executive Officer, Red Mountain Bank on behalf of the Independent Community Bankers of America

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/hr102108.shtml

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