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	<title>Comments on: JP Morgan Under Criminal Investigation for Jefferson County, Other Swaps</title>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/jp-morgan-under-criminal-investigation.html#comment-23758</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>madame old lady,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;just got my absentee ballot for new york yesterday.  there&#039;s a constitutional amendment in regards to veteran&#039;s affairs on there.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;wait til you get a load of this one...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://tinyurl.com/6ewdk8&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;say what?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>madame old lady,</p>
<p>just got my absentee ballot for new york yesterday.  there&#8217;s a constitutional amendment in regards to veteran&#8217;s affairs on there.</p>
<p>wait til you get a load of this one&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/6ewdk8" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/6ewdk8</a></p>
<p>say what?</p>
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		<title>By: luther</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/jp-morgan-under-criminal-investigation.html#comment-23756</link>
		<dc:creator>luther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>from the article:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Erie school board member Eva Tucker asked DiCarlo how much JPMorgan would make in the deal.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;``Everybody has asked, and it is a reasonable question, what does JPMorgan, what do we get on this transaction?&#039;&#039; DiCarlo said, according to minutes of a school board meeting.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;``I can&#039;t quantify that to you,&#039;&#039; he said. ``What this transaction is, is a financial transaction that is put into a huge hedge fund that JPMorgan controls. There&#039;s a trillion dollars of investments in that hedge fund. There&#039;s some other issuer in Tokyo or somewhere else who&#039;s got an opposite bet and they&#039;re going to offset each other.&#039;&#039;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;i/o/w this story and the yen story may be 2 sides of the same story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>from the article:</p>
<p>Erie school board member Eva Tucker asked DiCarlo how much JPMorgan would make in the deal.</p>
<p>&#8220;Everybody has asked, and it is a reasonable question, what does JPMorgan, what do we get on this transaction?&#8221; DiCarlo said, according to minutes of a school board meeting.</p>
<p>&#8220;I can&#8217;t quantify that to you,&#8221; he said. &#8220;What this transaction is, is a financial transaction that is put into a huge hedge fund that JPMorgan controls. There&#8217;s a trillion dollars of investments in that hedge fund. There&#8217;s some other issuer in Tokyo or somewhere else who&#8217;s got an opposite bet and they&#8217;re going to offset each other.&#8221;</p>
<p>i/o/w this story and the yen story may be 2 sides of the same story.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/jp-morgan-under-criminal-investigation.html#comment-23754</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;Japanese regulators were once hugely protective of retail investors and placed tough restrictions on what products could be sold to them ...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The products, which are known as power reverse dual currency notes (PRDC), were &lt;b&gt;sold to Japanese households as simple products offering higher yields than regular savings&lt;/b&gt; but the bonds were in reality &lt;b&gt;hugely complex structures “with 15 moving parts and multiple points of pain&lt;/b&gt;”, derivatives experts at RBS in Tokyo said.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The products combine exposure to foreign exchange, interest rate differentials and domestic inflation&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Topic: Reform&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;the above can go a long way toward a definition of the current crises to educate the public on what has happened to them and how. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;US News media, if they understand it themselves, are useless -indeed, worse than useless because their skill is acting as if they know what they are talking about and people starved for news who watch c-span think they are being educated by congressional hearings that further exploit this absence with sensationalized history, pandering to the public, and more propaganda from witnesses.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;every financial instrument including credit cards, mortgages and bank agreements sold to the public must feature language that can be understood by any high school student with an above B average grade.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;...the old lady</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Japanese regulators were once hugely protective of retail investors and placed tough restrictions on what products could be sold to them &#8230;</p>
<p>The products, which are known as power reverse dual currency notes (PRDC), were <b>sold to Japanese households as simple products offering higher yields than regular savings</b> but the bonds were in reality <b>hugely complex structures “with 15 moving parts and multiple points of pain</b>”, derivatives experts at RBS in Tokyo said.</p>
<p>The products combine exposure to foreign exchange, interest rate differentials and domestic inflation</i></p>
<p>Topic: Reform</p>
<p>the above can go a long way toward a definition of the current crises to educate the public on what has happened to them and how. </p>
<p>US News media, if they understand it themselves, are useless -indeed, worse than useless because their skill is acting as if they know what they are talking about and people starved for news who watch c-span think they are being educated by congressional hearings that further exploit this absence with sensationalized history, pandering to the public, and more propaganda from witnesses.</p>
<p>every financial instrument including credit cards, mortgages and bank agreements sold to the public must feature language that can be understood by any high school student with an above B average grade.</p>
<p>&#8230;the old lady</p>
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		<title>By: fresno dan</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/jp-morgan-under-criminal-investigation.html#comment-23743</link>
		<dc:creator>fresno dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think what this shows is that anyone trying to sell you anything should be trusted to the same extent that you would trust a used car salesman.  &lt;br/&gt;I used to think that the guys who ran finance understood complex transactions and could therefore creat value.  Now I believe they were just running a casino and all profits were due to the house advantage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what this shows is that anyone trying to sell you anything should be trusted to the same extent that you would trust a used car salesman.  <br />I used to think that the guys who ran finance understood complex transactions and could therefore creat value.  Now I believe they were just running a casino and all profits were due to the house advantage.</p>
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		<title>By: Yves Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/jp-morgan-under-criminal-investigation.html#comment-23724</link>
		<dc:creator>Yves Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 06:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Cool Head,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The reasons I suspect not is that (admittedly a decade ago) I had some peripheral knowledge of the sales practices of Bankers Trust, which at the time was one of the two biggest players in complex OTC derivatives. They would regularly fleece customers by taking structures that might have made sense and pricing them and/or larding them with fees so that they were a bad deal for the customer.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And these customers were the Treasury departments of Fortune 500 companies. And when Proctor &amp; Gamble went after them in court, that was basically the end of BT.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Now you would think P&amp;G would have no case. They are a big sophisticated company, right?  Caveat emptor, right?  The case never went to trial, but the sales force comments on tape and the (apparent) misrepresentations by the sales force were bad enough that BT was a goner.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Now, to understand complex derivatives, you do not merely need to have a good grasp of calculus. You need to work enough with calculus (as in daily, a ton), that it is INTUITIVE to you.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;How many people like that do you think are working in city and state government? I&#039;d guess if there were ANY, they&#039;d be on the fund management side, not the fund raising side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool Head,</p>
<p>The reasons I suspect not is that (admittedly a decade ago) I had some peripheral knowledge of the sales practices of Bankers Trust, which at the time was one of the two biggest players in complex OTC derivatives. They would regularly fleece customers by taking structures that might have made sense and pricing them and/or larding them with fees so that they were a bad deal for the customer.</p>
<p>And these customers were the Treasury departments of Fortune 500 companies. And when Proctor &amp; Gamble went after them in court, that was basically the end of BT.</p>
<p>Now you would think P&amp;G would have no case. They are a big sophisticated company, right?  Caveat emptor, right?  The case never went to trial, but the sales force comments on tape and the (apparent) misrepresentations by the sales force were bad enough that BT was a goner.</p>
<p>Now, to understand complex derivatives, you do not merely need to have a good grasp of calculus. You need to work enough with calculus (as in daily, a ton), that it is INTUITIVE to you.</p>
<p>How many people like that do you think are working in city and state government? I&#39;d guess if there were ANY, they&#39;d be on the fund management side, not the fund raising side.</p>
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		<title>By: Cool Head</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/jp-morgan-under-criminal-investigation.html#comment-23722</link>
		<dc:creator>Cool Head</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 06:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I smell some corruption here. The counties and school boards can&#039;t be that dumb. It may have been &quot;wink, wink, nod, nod&quot; on both sides. Methinks something is really rotten here. Also remember that these deals are now coming out in the open ONLY NOW after the subprime and other messes. Otherwise we may not have come to know of such deals ever. Only some bankers and politicians/bureaucrats would be happily be richer by a few millions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I smell some corruption here. The counties and school boards can&#8217;t be that dumb. It may have been &#8220;wink, wink, nod, nod&#8221; on both sides. Methinks something is really rotten here. Also remember that these deals are now coming out in the open ONLY NOW after the subprime and other messes. Otherwise we may not have come to know of such deals ever. Only some bankers and politicians/bureaucrats would be happily be richer by a few millions.</p>
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		<title>By: Francois</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/jp-morgan-under-criminal-investigation.html#comment-23705</link>
		<dc:creator>Francois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 05:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;whatever happened to caveat emptor? The deal seems to give JPM much more (all?) of the benefit but nobody put a gun to the heads of this county.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You think? Like these counties and school districts are swimming in an ocean of cash.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Do you also think JP Morgan sales reps were, shall we say, upfront about the risks involved? That they didn&#039;t &quot;help&quot; the financial advisor&#039;s that were supposed to work for their clients?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There are several legitimate reasons why US prosecutors are on these cases. Especially when one considers how difficult they are to successfully prosecute.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;whatever happened to caveat emptor? The deal seems to give JPM much more (all?) of the benefit but nobody put a gun to the heads of this county.&#8221;</p>
<p>You think? Like these counties and school districts are swimming in an ocean of cash.</p>
<p>Do you also think JP Morgan sales reps were, shall we say, upfront about the risks involved? That they didn&#8217;t &#8220;help&#8221; the financial advisor&#8217;s that were supposed to work for their clients?</p>
<p>There are several legitimate reasons why US prosecutors are on these cases. Especially when one considers how difficult they are to successfully prosecute.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/jp-morgan-under-criminal-investigation.html#comment-23693</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 03:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>john bougearel has it correct. It was some perverted type of insurance, with fees paid upfront on the originals and then the secondaries.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Probably threatened the municipalities rating and used as a selling pressure point.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Fees the first time around, the second the around, third time........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>john bougearel has it correct. It was some perverted type of insurance, with fees paid upfront on the originals and then the secondaries.</p>
<p>Probably threatened the municipalities rating and used as a selling pressure point.</p>
<p>Fees the first time around, the second the around, third time&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/jp-morgan-under-criminal-investigation.html#comment-23691</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 03:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What JP Morgan did to the Bethleham school district was unconscionable. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The district needed money so JP Morgan bought a swaption off them for around $750k. JPM then proceeded to immediately turn around and sell that same derivative for its market price of $2 million. After paying around 250k in fees, JPM made an easy million. It would later cost the school district $2.9m to get out of the deal.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Now one could say &lt;i&gt;caveat emptor&lt;/i&gt; but obviously a school board has no chance at figuring out the risks of something like that. Before the deal was signed, the school board&#039;s law firm turned to an outside investment consultancy to advise on the deal. Being far too trusting, the law firm failed to see the conflict of interest in hiring the consultancy that was recommend by JP Morgan. The consultant said the school district should sign the deal and thus the sheep were sheared.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;d have trouble sleeping at night knowing I just plundered a struggling school district but apparently those at JPM have no such problems.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The full story is even more sickening than you could possibly imagine. Refer to this should you ever have a twinge of sympathy for the big banks.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20602007&amp;sid=ay5LDbjbjy6c&amp;refer=rates</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What JP Morgan did to the Bethleham school district was unconscionable. </p>
<p>The district needed money so JP Morgan bought a swaption off them for around $750k. JPM then proceeded to immediately turn around and sell that same derivative for its market price of $2 million. After paying around 250k in fees, JPM made an easy million. It would later cost the school district $2.9m to get out of the deal.</p>
<p>Now one could say <i>caveat emptor</i> but obviously a school board has no chance at figuring out the risks of something like that. Before the deal was signed, the school board&#39;s law firm turned to an outside investment consultancy to advise on the deal. Being far too trusting, the law firm failed to see the conflict of interest in hiring the consultancy that was recommend by JP Morgan. The consultant said the school district should sign the deal and thus the sheep were sheared.</p>
<p>I&#39;d have trouble sleeping at night knowing I just plundered a struggling school district but apparently those at JPM have no such problems.</p>
<p>The full story is even more sickening than you could possibly imagine. Refer to this should you ever have a twinge of sympathy for the big banks.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20602007&amp;sid=ay5LDbjbjy6c&amp;refer=rates" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20602007&amp;sid=ay5LDbjbjy6c&amp;refer=rates</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/jp-morgan-under-criminal-investigation.html#comment-23687</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 02:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>macndub, you&#039;re RIGHT! Typical of complicated stories like this, even Bloomberg is reporting it WRONG. writing a swaption is no risk reducer! Also receiving fixed is nothing to fear if you originally feared rates going UP!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>macndub, you&#8217;re RIGHT! Typical of complicated stories like this, even Bloomberg is reporting it WRONG. writing a swaption is no risk reducer! Also receiving fixed is nothing to fear if you originally feared rates going UP!</p>
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