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	<title>Comments on: More on the Charge That JP Morgan Withheld $17 Billion From Lehman, Triggering Collapse</title>
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	<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld.html</link>
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		<title>By: Kafka</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld.html#comment-19564</link>
		<dc:creator>Kafka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-the-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld-17-billion-from-lehman-triggering-collapse/#comment-19564</guid>
		<description>Could it be the Fed was complicit in massive fraud with JP Morgan which perhaps is or was insolvent prior to Fed intervention?  I have heard Dimon is unhappy with the Bear Acquisition and estimates the true cost to be $106 per share as opposed to the $10 per share price paid.  Of course, this would be the ultimate payback by the Fed, $138 Billion, notwithstanding that LEH had to be forced into bankruptcy by JP Morgan prior to the Fed giving JP Morgan $138 Billion ostensibly to fund liabilities which were substantively owed by LEH to JP Morgan.  It seems the shell game is unending though the results are apparent.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………&lt;br/&gt;The advance was reportedly “to allow” Lehman to settle securities trades with clients. J.P. Morgan was then immediately reimbursed by the Federal Reserve for the same 138 billion.&lt;br/&gt;What was not originally reported, or likely not understood at the time due to the types of securities that Lehman did most of their business in [Credit Derivatives], it is a virtual certainty that J.P. Morgan [the largest derivatives player in the world with 8.1 Trillion in Credit Derivatives alone] was the “client” [the other side of the Lehman trades that needed to be settled].&lt;br/&gt;The critical piece of information that completes the daisy-chain: The world only learned about J.P. Morgan’s 138 billion advance from a bankruptcy court document, where Lehman was asking the court for the authority to give the settlement of claims of J.P. Morgan “special status.”&lt;br/&gt;It is highly likely [or a certainty on my planet] that J.P. Morgan was INSOLVENT and was “BAILED OUT” last Monday, September 15, to the tune of 138 billion dollars. This would explain why the Fed and Treasury dictated that Lehman fail – to disguise or otherwise obfuscate the recapitalization of or illicit transfer of 138 billion to A MUCH SICKER, TEETERING ENTITY, J.P. Morgan Chase.&lt;br/&gt;This makes sense. Investment banks are dropping like flies, owing to their involvement in credit derivatives – this is a fact. &lt;br/&gt;J. P. Morgan is – HANDS DOWN – the largest derivatives player in the world with a book of 90 Trillion in notional value on March 31, 2008 – with 9% of the book composed of Credit Derivatives. That amounts to a cool 8.1 Trillion worth of Credit Derivatives. We know this from the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency’s Quarterly Derivatives Report – pg. 24.&lt;br/&gt;http://www.financialsense.com/Market/kirby/2008/0922.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could it be the Fed was complicit in massive fraud with JP Morgan which perhaps is or was insolvent prior to Fed intervention?  I have heard Dimon is unhappy with the Bear Acquisition and estimates the true cost to be $106 per share as opposed to the $10 per share price paid.  Of course, this would be the ultimate payback by the Fed, $138 Billion, notwithstanding that LEH had to be forced into bankruptcy by JP Morgan prior to the Fed giving JP Morgan $138 Billion ostensibly to fund liabilities which were substantively owed by LEH to JP Morgan.  It seems the shell game is unending though the results are apparent.</p>
<p>……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………<br />The advance was reportedly “to allow” Lehman to settle securities trades with clients. J.P. Morgan was then immediately reimbursed by the Federal Reserve for the same 138 billion.<br />What was not originally reported, or likely not understood at the time due to the types of securities that Lehman did most of their business in [Credit Derivatives], it is a virtual certainty that J.P. Morgan [the largest derivatives player in the world with 8.1 Trillion in Credit Derivatives alone] was the “client” [the other side of the Lehman trades that needed to be settled].<br />The critical piece of information that completes the daisy-chain: The world only learned about J.P. Morgan’s 138 billion advance from a bankruptcy court document, where Lehman was asking the court for the authority to give the settlement of claims of J.P. Morgan “special status.”<br />It is highly likely [or a certainty on my planet] that J.P. Morgan was INSOLVENT and was “BAILED OUT” last Monday, September 15, to the tune of 138 billion dollars. This would explain why the Fed and Treasury dictated that Lehman fail – to disguise or otherwise obfuscate the recapitalization of or illicit transfer of 138 billion to A MUCH SICKER, TEETERING ENTITY, J.P. Morgan Chase.<br />This makes sense. Investment banks are dropping like flies, owing to their involvement in credit derivatives – this is a fact. <br />J. P. Morgan is – HANDS DOWN – the largest derivatives player in the world with a book of 90 Trillion in notional value on March 31, 2008 – with 9% of the book composed of Credit Derivatives. That amounts to a cool 8.1 Trillion worth of Credit Derivatives. We know this from the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency’s Quarterly Derivatives Report – pg. 24.<br /><a href="http://www.financialsense.com/Market/kirby/2008/0922.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.financialsense.com/Market/kirby/2008/0922.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld.html#comment-19519</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 16:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-the-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld-17-billion-from-lehman-triggering-collapse/#comment-19519</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I was going to say something but Dubuque beat me to it.  That JPM refused to release the funds might&#039;ve been wholly appropriate given whatever security interest was signed over.  Hard to tell without seeing any of the legal documents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I was going to say something but Dubuque beat me to it.  That JPM refused to release the funds might&#8217;ve been wholly appropriate given whatever security interest was signed over.  Hard to tell without seeing any of the legal documents.</p>
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		<title>By: omodes123</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld.html#comment-19504</link>
		<dc:creator>omodes123</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-the-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld-17-billion-from-lehman-triggering-collapse/#comment-19504</guid>
		<description>if what you say about citi is true, then the winners and losers of this morass has been decided.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if what you say about citi is true, then the winners and losers of this morass has been decided.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld.html#comment-19503</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-the-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld-17-billion-from-lehman-triggering-collapse/#comment-19503</guid>
		<description>Were these orignally Bears Stearns assets that JPM withheld?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think JPM is rapidly become the shadow MLEC...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Were these orignally Bears Stearns assets that JPM withheld?</p>
<p>I think JPM is rapidly become the shadow MLEC&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld.html#comment-19500</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-the-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld-17-billion-from-lehman-triggering-collapse/#comment-19500</guid>
		<description>Haven&#039;t I seen this scene in The Godfather?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haven&#8217;t I seen this scene in The Godfather?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Dubuque</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld.html#comment-19491</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Dubuque</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 14:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-the-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld-17-billion-from-lehman-triggering-collapse/#comment-19491</guid>
		<description>Matt Dubuque&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Without access to the legal documents, it seems entirely possible to me that JP Morgan used this paltry 17 billion as a setoff against sums to it owed by Lehman.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It would seem highly likely that, during the Lehman endgame, ALL the sums advanced by JP Morgan would have been secured by assets of Lehman.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I recall the howls of Bear Stearns that they were never bankrupt, but that they merely suffered a &quot;liquidity&quot; crisis.  However, after their books were closely examined, they were in FAR worse shape than their public pronouncements at the end.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It seems to be a similar situation with Lehman, in my view.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I recall how Lehman was continually floating stories in the media that their crown jewel Neuberger unit was worth 10 billion alone.  Last week it sold for 2 billion.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Matt Dubuque&lt;br/&gt;mdubuque@yahoo.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt Dubuque</p>
<p>Without access to the legal documents, it seems entirely possible to me that JP Morgan used this paltry 17 billion as a setoff against sums to it owed by Lehman.</p>
<p>It would seem highly likely that, during the Lehman endgame, ALL the sums advanced by JP Morgan would have been secured by assets of Lehman.</p>
<p>I recall the howls of Bear Stearns that they were never bankrupt, but that they merely suffered a &#8220;liquidity&#8221; crisis.  However, after their books were closely examined, they were in FAR worse shape than their public pronouncements at the end.</p>
<p>It seems to be a similar situation with Lehman, in my view.</p>
<p>I recall how Lehman was continually floating stories in the media that their crown jewel Neuberger unit was worth 10 billion alone.  Last week it sold for 2 billion.</p>
<p>Matt Dubuque<br /><a href="mailto:mdubuque@yahoo.com">mdubuque@yahoo.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld.html#comment-19485</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 13:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;The firm [LEH]had a gaping hole in its balance sheet, vastly bigger than what the public at large believed.&quot;  Doesn&#039;t this mean that the top management of Lehman will be subject to criminal charges?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The firm [LEH]had a gaping hole in its balance sheet, vastly bigger than what the public at large believed.&#8221;  Doesn&#8217;t this mean that the top management of Lehman will be subject to criminal charges?</p>
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		<title>By: FairEconomist</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld.html#comment-19471</link>
		<dc:creator>FairEconomist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 11:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Pardon the tinfoil, but TPTB have to be covering up something disturbing in that $138 billion emergency loan. The need for the system to loan $138 bb to a bankrupt organization says something important about the weaknesses in the system. Even more so that it hasn&#039;t been repaid and has been dumped in as one of the creditor interests in the Lehman bankruptcy. However, I haven&#039;t heard a peep about what it is. I would think every  financial reporter in New York would be dying to talk about this - who it was owed to, and why, and why it doesn&#039;t seem to have been balanced out yet. But  - silence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pardon the tinfoil, but TPTB have to be covering up something disturbing in that $138 billion emergency loan. The need for the system to loan $138 bb to a bankrupt organization says something important about the weaknesses in the system. Even more so that it hasn&#8217;t been repaid and has been dumped in as one of the creditor interests in the Lehman bankruptcy. However, I haven&#8217;t heard a peep about what it is. I would think every  financial reporter in New York would be dying to talk about this &#8211; who it was owed to, and why, and why it doesn&#8217;t seem to have been balanced out yet. But  &#8211; silence.</p>
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		<title>By: EvilHenryPaulson</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld.html#comment-19454</link>
		<dc:creator>EvilHenryPaulson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 08:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What I find extremely weird is that Citigroup was announced as an unsecured creditor for exactly $138 billion. You can be sure that if Bank of NY Fed hadn&#039;t channelled money through JPM to LEH and presumably at least in part to Citigroup, that Citigroup would have made some kind of major announcement in the 2-3 weeks since.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It&#039;s only a matter of time before that money must be returned to the NY Fed. The threat of Citigroup failing likely is what triggered the emergency bailout</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find extremely weird is that Citigroup was announced as an unsecured creditor for exactly $138 billion. You can be sure that if Bank of NY Fed hadn&#8217;t channelled money through JPM to LEH and presumably at least in part to Citigroup, that Citigroup would have made some kind of major announcement in the 2-3 weeks since.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s only a matter of time before that money must be returned to the NY Fed. The threat of Citigroup failing likely is what triggered the emergency bailout</p>
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		<title>By: Viv</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld.html#comment-19452</link>
		<dc:creator>Viv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 08:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/more-on-the-charge-that-jp-morgan-withheld-17-billion-from-lehman-triggering-collapse/#comment-19452</guid>
		<description>Dog eat dog world</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dog eat dog world</p>
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