Comments on: Morgan Stanley Put on Watch for Possible Downgrade by Moody’s (Update: Goldman on Negative Outlook) http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for.html Sun, 22 Nov 2009 15:18:28 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Matt Dubuque http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for.html#comment-20593 Matt Dubuque Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:25:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for-possible-downgrade-by-moodys-update-goldman-on-negative-outlook/#comment-20593 Matt Dubuque<br/><br/>As I noted in August, the ratings agencies are starting to get very tough and nasty.<br/><br/>This is because of the large number of pending lawsuits against them, including shareholder derivative lawsuits.<br/><br/>Additionally, Henry Waxman is breathing down their neck and Obama has singled them out for particular blame. Recall the horrific fiasco about collateralized proportional debt obligations (CPDOs) at Moody's that broke over the summer.<br/><br/>That scandal alone could bankrupt the firm when current lawsuits play out. The FT caught them redhanded.<br/><br/>The attorneys for the ratings agencies have advised them that if they don't get organized QUICKLY, then the entire assets are at risk because of punitive damage awards.<br/><br/>A similar pattern holds for the large accounting firms. Look for dramatic changes when the AUDITED financials come out in January.<br/><br/>This is not a "paranoid" view. It is sober analysis, based on numerous competent data points.<br/><br/>Matt Dubuque<br/>mdubuque@yahoo.comP Matt Dubuque

As I noted in August, the ratings agencies are starting to get very tough and nasty.

This is because of the large number of pending lawsuits against them, including shareholder derivative lawsuits.

Additionally, Henry Waxman is breathing down their neck and Obama has singled them out for particular blame. Recall the horrific fiasco about collateralized proportional debt obligations (CPDOs) at Moody’s that broke over the summer.

That scandal alone could bankrupt the firm when current lawsuits play out. The FT caught them redhanded.

The attorneys for the ratings agencies have advised them that if they don’t get organized QUICKLY, then the entire assets are at risk because of punitive damage awards.

A similar pattern holds for the large accounting firms. Look for dramatic changes when the AUDITED financials come out in January.

This is not a “paranoid” view. It is sober analysis, based on numerous competent data points.

Matt Dubuque
mdubuque@yahoo.comP

]]> By: fresno dan http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for.html#comment-20548 fresno dan Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:53:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for-possible-downgrade-by-moodys-update-goldman-on-negative-outlook/#comment-20548 I have a philosophy, but I have been re-evaluating it in the light of reality. What does it say about the whole theory of markets if people blindly followed Moody's on the way up? You can't (actually, you can) complaine now about Moody's downgrade. Finally, this rating may be speeding the demise of MS, but if someone can knock you over with a feather, the problem isn't the person with a feather - its you. I have a philosophy, but I have been re-evaluating it in the light of reality. What does it say about the whole theory of markets if people blindly followed Moody’s on the way up? You can’t (actually, you can) complaine now about Moody’s downgrade. Finally, this rating may be speeding the demise of MS, but if someone can knock you over with a feather, the problem isn’t the person with a feather – its you.

]]> By: thomas j http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for.html#comment-20544 thomas j Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:41:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for-possible-downgrade-by-moodys-update-goldman-on-negative-outlook/#comment-20544 Probably just a coincidence that Berkshire is Moody's largest shareholder.<br/><br/>http://www.cnbc.com/id/24416731 Probably just a coincidence that Berkshire is Moody’s largest shareholder.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/24416731

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for.html#comment-20543 Anonymous Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:14:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for-possible-downgrade-by-moodys-update-goldman-on-negative-outlook/#comment-20543 This is sweet revenge by the ratings agencies who were coerced into giving top ratings to the toxic waste spewed by these same banks. This is sweet revenge by the ratings agencies who were coerced into giving top ratings to the toxic waste spewed by these same banks.

]]> By: doc holiday http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for.html#comment-20519 doc holiday Fri, 10 Oct 2008 07:43:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for-possible-downgrade-by-moodys-update-goldman-on-negative-outlook/#comment-20519 More rating agency collusion and conspiracy to defraud? Where are the investigations of ratings agencies, who without question, are unable to model financial securities or to have trustworthy reputations that can be connected to anything truthful?<br/><br/> The ratings agencies are conduits of fraud which abuse authority -- and one thus has to question why Congress or The Senate have not done anything at all to control these entities that threaten the financial stability of America! If the truth be known, Congress and The Senate work for lobby groups that use ratings agencies to contribute to a corrupted political system that depends on fraud from wall street! More rating agency collusion and conspiracy to defraud? Where are the investigations of ratings agencies, who without question, are unable to model financial securities or to have trustworthy reputations that can be connected to anything truthful?

The ratings agencies are conduits of fraud which abuse authority — and one thus has to question why Congress or The Senate have not done anything at all to control these entities that threaten the financial stability of America! If the truth be known, Congress and The Senate work for lobby groups that use ratings agencies to contribute to a corrupted political system that depends on fraud from wall street!

]]> By: wintermute http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for.html#comment-20515 wintermute Fri, 10 Oct 2008 07:19:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for-possible-downgrade-by-moodys-update-goldman-on-negative-outlook/#comment-20515 Settling LEH CDS will be a nightmare if at all possible. And perhaps Moodys knows MS won't survive that. But also the gorilla in the room which is the $1tn of GM CDS which will pay 12c in the dollar at best. Who can honour these debts in these market conditions. Settling LEH CDS will be a nightmare if at all possible. And perhaps Moodys knows MS won’t survive that. But also the gorilla in the room which is the $1tn of GM CDS which will pay 12c in the dollar at best. Who can honour these debts in these market conditions.

]]> By: Max http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for.html#comment-20512 Max Fri, 10 Oct 2008 06:45:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for-possible-downgrade-by-moodys-update-goldman-on-negative-outlook/#comment-20512 Does anyone know what the JPM exposure to the LEH CDS is? Does anyone know what the JPM exposure to the LEH CDS is?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for.html#comment-20509 Anonymous Fri, 10 Oct 2008 06:22:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for-possible-downgrade-by-moodys-update-goldman-on-negative-outlook/#comment-20509 Given that Moody's AAA rating of junk started all this, why does anyone care what they say? Given that Moody’s AAA rating of junk started all this, why does anyone care what they say?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for.html#comment-20506 Anonymous Fri, 10 Oct 2008 06:14:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for-possible-downgrade-by-moodys-update-goldman-on-negative-outlook/#comment-20506 downgrade the suckers! let them go bust! hope Goldman is next downgrade the suckers! let them go bust! hope Goldman is next

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for.html#comment-20501 Anonymous Fri, 10 Oct 2008 05:54:00 +0000 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/morgan-stanley-put-on-watch-for-possible-downgrade-by-moodys-update-goldman-on-negative-outlook/#comment-20501 First they came for the Bears,<br/>-- but I did not speak out<br/>Then the came for the Merrills<br/>-- but I did not speak out<br/>Then they came for the Lehmanites<br/>-- but I did not speak out<br/>Then they came for the Morganites<br/>-- but I did not speak out<br/>And then the came for me<br/>-- but Hank F'ing Paulson's got my back, bitches!<br/><br/>No, but seriously, this weekend's going to suck. First they came for the Bears,
– but I did not speak out
Then the came for the Merrills
– but I did not speak out
Then they came for the Lehmanites
– but I did not speak out
Then they came for the Morganites
– but I did not speak out
And then the came for me
– but Hank F’ing Paulson’s got my back, bitches!

No, but seriously, this weekend’s going to suck.

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