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	<title>Comments on: Has UBS Ruined Switzerland&#8217;s Standing as a Financial Haven?</title>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/has-ubs-ruined-switzerlands-standing-as.html#comment-27892</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 06:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I said it earlier and I say it again: Some Americans have exploited the Swiss bank secrecy laws to evade taxes. Now, who is guilty? According to your logic, if you shoot someone, the gunmaker is the culprit. I know an American who showed up in a Swiss bank and presented a Canadian passport to open an account. The clerk was not suspicious and accepted the application. Another example: You go to a jeweller or bank and buy gold bullions. Now, the gold price goes up. Are you reporting to the IRS that you made a capital gain? I bet no! Swiss banks currently pay 1% interest on savings accounts. Off this 1% capital gain, they deduct 35% withholding tax, which they transfer back to the source - in this case the IRS. Now, who evades taxes here? I think it is just mistrust of the IRS. And, to end the discussion about the arrogant US pressure to eliminate the Swiss bank secrecy laws, the laws are written into constitution and a removal would require a referendum. Even if UBS or the Swiss government is standing with their back against the wall, the US, EU and other OECD bandits won&#039;t be able to take on the swiss voters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I said it earlier and I say it again: Some Americans have exploited the Swiss bank secrecy laws to evade taxes. Now, who is guilty? According to your logic, if you shoot someone, the gunmaker is the culprit. I know an American who showed up in a Swiss bank and presented a Canadian passport to open an account. The clerk was not suspicious and accepted the application. Another example: You go to a jeweller or bank and buy gold bullions. Now, the gold price goes up. Are you reporting to the IRS that you made a capital gain? I bet no! Swiss banks currently pay 1% interest on savings accounts. Off this 1% capital gain, they deduct 35% withholding tax, which they transfer back to the source &#8211; in this case the IRS. Now, who evades taxes here? I think it is just mistrust of the IRS. And, to end the discussion about the arrogant US pressure to eliminate the Swiss bank secrecy laws, the laws are written into constitution and a removal would require a referendum. Even if UBS or the Swiss government is standing with their back against the wall, the US, EU and other OECD bandits won&#8217;t be able to take on the swiss voters.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/has-ubs-ruined-switzerlands-standing-as.html#comment-24818</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&gt;The consumer is the ultimate taxpayer.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Why not just say the taxpayer is the ultimate taxpayer? Because then the idiocy of your line of reasoning becomes patent.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Somebody has to pay taxes. Economists tend to agree that non-distortionary taxes are best, and this usually means moderate taxes on everything (income, capital gains, profits, property, sales, etc) rather than high taxes in one area but low taxes elsewhere. Double taxation of economic activity tends to produce high taxes, and thus is bad. But in the end, no matter how you slice it, the taxpayer in aggregate end up paying all the taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;The consumer is the ultimate taxpayer.</p>
<p>Why not just say the taxpayer is the ultimate taxpayer? Because then the idiocy of your line of reasoning becomes patent.</p>
<p>Somebody has to pay taxes. Economists tend to agree that non-distortionary taxes are best, and this usually means moderate taxes on everything (income, capital gains, profits, property, sales, etc) rather than high taxes in one area but low taxes elsewhere. Double taxation of economic activity tends to produce high taxes, and thus is bad. But in the end, no matter how you slice it, the taxpayer in aggregate end up paying all the taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/has-ubs-ruined-switzerlands-standing-as.html#comment-24736</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 04:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sorry, but the Swiss Banking Secrecy Law effectively ceased to exist when Switzerland agreed that banks hand out all information on criminal offense charges of EU countries (and most likely to all other big western countries as well). Even though &quot;tax evasion is not considered a criminal offence in the country&quot; some official just has to make something up that IS a criminal offense also in Switzerland and there you go.&lt;br/&gt;So all these articles just seem to be scapegoating.&lt;br/&gt;a&lt;br/&gt;It has become the other way round, the IRA has now setup such a mass of forms and regulations that ALL financial institutions over the world have to honor, that e.g. it has become close to impossible to find a Swiss online broker that will let you open an account if you have a US passport...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;living in Switzerland for 10+ years (without being a high net worth individual),</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but the Swiss Banking Secrecy Law effectively ceased to exist when Switzerland agreed that banks hand out all information on criminal offense charges of EU countries (and most likely to all other big western countries as well). Even though &#8220;tax evasion is not considered a criminal offence in the country&#8221; some official just has to make something up that IS a criminal offense also in Switzerland and there you go.<br />So all these articles just seem to be scapegoating.<br />a<br />It has become the other way round, the IRA has now setup such a mass of forms and regulations that ALL financial institutions over the world have to honor, that e.g. it has become close to impossible to find a Swiss online broker that will let you open an account if you have a US passport&#8230;</p>
<p>living in Switzerland for 10+ years (without being a high net worth individual),</p>
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		<title>By: CrocodileChuck</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/has-ubs-ruined-switzerlands-standing-as.html#comment-24718</link>
		<dc:creator>CrocodileChuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 21:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/has-ubs-ruined-switzerlands-standing-as-a-financial-haven/#comment-24718</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve long had an interest in the history of banking.  For a eye opening survey of off shore banking since the first Oil Crisis of &#039;73, try &quot;The Sink&quot; by Jeffrey Robinson.  Amusing and shocking at once-a riveting read.  One will never regard Private Banking in the same way....&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Thank you for this post, Yves&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;CrocodileChuck</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve long had an interest in the history of banking.  For a eye opening survey of off shore banking since the first Oil Crisis of &#8216;73, try &#8220;The Sink&#8221; by Jeffrey Robinson.  Amusing and shocking at once-a riveting read.  One will never regard Private Banking in the same way&#8230;.</p>
<p>Thank you for this post, Yves</p>
<p>CrocodileChuck</p>
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		<title>By: ECForster</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/has-ubs-ruined-switzerlands-standing-as.html#comment-24716</link>
		<dc:creator>ECForster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 21:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&gt;...the price of something is what the purchaser values it at..&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I do not disagree. Only the market will determine consumer prices for goods and services that have to support an additional tax on a business. But simple accounting of sales revenue reveals that the consumer will bear the entire burden of that tax in those prices. The consumer is the ultimate taxpayer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&#8230;the price of something is what the purchaser values it at..</p>
<p>I do not disagree. Only the market will determine consumer prices for goods and services that have to support an additional tax on a business. But simple accounting of sales revenue reveals that the consumer will bear the entire burden of that tax in those prices. The consumer is the ultimate taxpayer.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/has-ubs-ruined-switzerlands-standing-as.html#comment-24701</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&gt;If the customer does not contribute to these tax bills, who does?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Arrgghhh!! Another one that simply cannot grasp the concept that the price of something is what the purchaser values it at, and if none or 99.9% of that money goes to the taxman the consumer is indifferent.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But even having it your way - as I&#039;m sure you will no matter how many times I try to explain it to you:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A given government needs some level of revenue, nobody is going to do anything for free - a concept you should be comfortable with.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So if nobody pays taxes on the transactions you described, then the revenue will have to come from some other set of transactions.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And now we have economic distortion - which again, I suspect you would agree is a bad thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;If the customer does not contribute to these tax bills, who does?</p>
<p>Arrgghhh!! Another one that simply cannot grasp the concept that the price of something is what the purchaser values it at, and if none or 99.9% of that money goes to the taxman the consumer is indifferent.</p>
<p>But even having it your way &#8211; as I&#39;m sure you will no matter how many times I try to explain it to you:</p>
<p>A given government needs some level of revenue, nobody is going to do anything for free &#8211; a concept you should be comfortable with.</p>
<p>So if nobody pays taxes on the transactions you described, then the revenue will have to come from some other set of transactions.</p>
<p>And now we have economic distortion &#8211; which again, I suspect you would agree is a bad thing.</p>
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		<title>By: River</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/has-ubs-ruined-switzerlands-standing-as.html#comment-24660</link>
		<dc:creator>River</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 13:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There is certainly nothing new about tax havens, so why the sudden interest in them. Could it be that TPTB are going to significantly increase taxes on those most familiar with the use of tax havens? Is it possible that TPTB want to insure that laws are changed everywhere to make tax avoidance illegal? Surely this is not to be! Where would those in charge of changing the laws stash their loot?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;One argument in favor of tax havens is that they help pressure developed countries to reduce their tax rates.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&#039;To a certain extent, the founding concept of a tax haven appeared as an economic response to the principle of taxes. For instance, in Ancient Greece, some of the Greek Islands were used as depositories by the sea traders of the era to place their foreign goods to thus avoid the two-percent tax imposed by the city-state of Athens on imported goods. In the Middle Ages, Hanseatic traders who set up business in London were exempt from tax. The U.S. is not new to tax haven users. In 1721, American colonies traded from Latin America to avoid English taxes.&#039;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is certainly nothing new about tax havens, so why the sudden interest in them. Could it be that TPTB are going to significantly increase taxes on those most familiar with the use of tax havens? Is it possible that TPTB want to insure that laws are changed everywhere to make tax avoidance illegal? Surely this is not to be! Where would those in charge of changing the laws stash their loot?</p>
<p>One argument in favor of tax havens is that they help pressure developed countries to reduce their tax rates.</p>
<p>&#8216;To a certain extent, the founding concept of a tax haven appeared as an economic response to the principle of taxes. For instance, in Ancient Greece, some of the Greek Islands were used as depositories by the sea traders of the era to place their foreign goods to thus avoid the two-percent tax imposed by the city-state of Athens on imported goods. In the Middle Ages, Hanseatic traders who set up business in London were exempt from tax. The U.S. is not new to tax haven users. In 1721, American colonies traded from Latin America to avoid English taxes.&#8217;</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/has-ubs-ruined-switzerlands-standing-as.html#comment-24655</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 13:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>not in the same league as Reykjavík, at least the swiss produce something usefull and are good at value adding! with no natural resources they run a trade surplus (not to mention the service balance) and the looming close-out of the CHF carry supports their ccy - have a good one!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>not in the same league as Reykjavík, at least the swiss produce something usefull and are good at value adding! with no natural resources they run a trade surplus (not to mention the service balance) and the looming close-out of the CHF carry supports their ccy &#8211; have a good one!</p>
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		<title>By: cansarnoso</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/has-ubs-ruined-switzerlands-standing-as.html#comment-24646</link>
		<dc:creator>cansarnoso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 11:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/has-ubs-ruined-switzerlands-standing-as-a-financial-haven/#comment-24646</guid>
		<description>aw70&lt;br/&gt;third man&lt;br/&gt;drug traficking in another indiscriminate alpine country&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;belge&lt;br/&gt;buying same ticket on reykjavik replay -at least in top three-</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aw70<br />third man<br />drug traficking in another indiscriminate alpine country</p>
<p>belge<br />buying same ticket on reykjavik replay -at least in top three-</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/has-ubs-ruined-switzerlands-standing-as.html#comment-24645</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 11:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/has-ubs-ruined-switzerlands-standing-as-a-financial-haven/#comment-24645</guid>
		<description>Taxation is another matter that requires some logical thinking.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The accounts of any company will show that all taxation, whether corporate, or on the payroll, or contributions to government insurance and pension schemes, is financed from a proportion of sales revenue. At the end of the supply chain, real paying customers, i.e. individual people with money, will be found that support the production costs of each associated supplying enterprise. If the customer does not contribute to these tax bills, who does?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The concept of tax evasion is interesting in that, these people are big spenders and will be big tax payers already by the implicit taxation of their consumption. Assuming they derive their money from enterprise, then their customers have not been burdened with an extra tax bill. Government demands that these rich entrepreneurs tow the line and force their customers to pay up in future. Meanwhile, the government looks good by targeting fat cats. However you look at it, the consumer always pays.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;One must conclude that our complex tax system is a charade to hide the true cost of government from consumers and voters.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;ECForster</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taxation is another matter that requires some logical thinking.</p>
<p>The accounts of any company will show that all taxation, whether corporate, or on the payroll, or contributions to government insurance and pension schemes, is financed from a proportion of sales revenue. At the end of the supply chain, real paying customers, i.e. individual people with money, will be found that support the production costs of each associated supplying enterprise. If the customer does not contribute to these tax bills, who does?</p>
<p>The concept of tax evasion is interesting in that, these people are big spenders and will be big tax payers already by the implicit taxation of their consumption. Assuming they derive their money from enterprise, then their customers have not been burdened with an extra tax bill. Government demands that these rich entrepreneurs tow the line and force their customers to pay up in future. Meanwhile, the government looks good by targeting fat cats. However you look at it, the consumer always pays.</p>
<p>One must conclude that our complex tax system is a charade to hide the true cost of government from consumers and voters.</p>
<p>ECForster</p>
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