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	<title>Comments on: Hedgies Still Blowing Up the Markets, Oh My!</title>
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	<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/hedgies-still-blowing-up-markets-oh-my.html</link>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/hedgies-still-blowing-up-markets-oh-my.html#comment-24857</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 02:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hedge funds (with fee structure of 2-20) going down in a bear market. And commenters  pointing out people &quot;should have known&quot; about redemption restrictions--Priceless. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I have 4 words: Opaque, expensive, and levereged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hedge funds (with fee structure of 2-20) going down in a bear market. And commenters  pointing out people &#8220;should have known&#8221; about redemption restrictions&#8211;Priceless. </p>
<p>I have 4 words: Opaque, expensive, and levereged.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/hedgies-still-blowing-up-markets-oh-my.html#comment-24829</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 20:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The massive redemptions at hedge funds points to a highly emotional response by investors.  This can be a great time to get in at far lower prices.  It may be worth while to look for the best hedge fund managers out there and shoot for the long term.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I have no exposure to hedgefunds ATM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The massive redemptions at hedge funds points to a highly emotional response by investors.  This can be a great time to get in at far lower prices.  It may be worth while to look for the best hedge fund managers out there and shoot for the long term.</p>
<p>I have no exposure to hedgefunds ATM.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Kline</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/hedgies-still-blowing-up-markets-oh-my.html#comment-24755</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Kline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 07:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/hedgies-still-blowing-up-the-markets-oh-my/#comment-24755</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s see:  Wildcat banks in the 1830s.  Railroad shares in the 1870s.  Utility securities in the 1920s.  Junk bonds in the 1980s.  Hedgies in ASBs et. al. in the 2000s.  I skipped a few but there&#039;s a trend.  One can always find fat alphas spreaders, but when they gorge in packs rather than as solitary hunters their arc is a parabolic.  What&#039;s hard to understand about that if one reads a little history?  . . . Oh, I get it:  the leisure class doesn&#039;t read, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s see:  Wildcat banks in the 1830s.  Railroad shares in the 1870s.  Utility securities in the 1920s.  Junk bonds in the 1980s.  Hedgies in ASBs et. al. in the 2000s.  I skipped a few but there&#8217;s a trend.  One can always find fat alphas spreaders, but when they gorge in packs rather than as solitary hunters their arc is a parabolic.  What&#8217;s hard to understand about that if one reads a little history?  . . . Oh, I get it:  the leisure class doesn&#8217;t read, either.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/hedgies-still-blowing-up-markets-oh-my.html#comment-24734</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 02:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/hedgies-still-blowing-up-the-markets-oh-my/#comment-24734</guid>
		<description>tompain is right. The redemption suspension is usually clearly defined in the prospectus and is necessary to protect the remaining shareholders from forced fire sales.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As for the transparency, with my company I invest in about 20 hedge funds and they all give me full access to their positions at any time, under the agreement that it&#039;s for our eyes only (last year one manager wanted to stop showing us the book and we sold straight away, no second thoughts). &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This is just to say that the common perception that ALL hedge funds are evil black boxes is an ignorant generalization and it&#039;s possible to invest with very honest and transparent managers, who have great reputations and stay in touch with the investors. It&#039;s just a matter of doing the homeworks before investing...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tompain is right. The redemption suspension is usually clearly defined in the prospectus and is necessary to protect the remaining shareholders from forced fire sales.</p>
<p>As for the transparency, with my company I invest in about 20 hedge funds and they all give me full access to their positions at any time, under the agreement that it&#8217;s for our eyes only (last year one manager wanted to stop showing us the book and we sold straight away, no second thoughts). </p>
<p>This is just to say that the common perception that ALL hedge funds are evil black boxes is an ignorant generalization and it&#8217;s possible to invest with very honest and transparent managers, who have great reputations and stay in touch with the investors. It&#8217;s just a matter of doing the homeworks before investing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: tompain</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/hedgies-still-blowing-up-markets-oh-my.html#comment-24713</link>
		<dc:creator>tompain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 20:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The ability of the general partner to block or slow the rate of redemptions is a standard feature of almost all hedge funds.  Normally this ability is triggered by redemption requests that exceed a certain percentage of the total fund. Any investor claiming to be surprised by this is either lying or failed to read the prospectus. In most cases, it is not, as Yves suggests, some sort of violation of the contract. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Hedge fund fees are ridiculous and the gating features are perhaps onerous, but they are not entirely unjustified. They can serve to protect the interests of a fund&#039;s investors by preventing a fire sale of illiquid assets and by ensuring that all clients are treated equally.  It&#039;s also true that the gate has the convenient side benefit of temporarily propping up the fee due to the manager.  Even this is not entirely without logic, however. Many of the hedge funds that were started in the last few years have no operating capital behind them.  Without the fees coming in, they can&#039;t pay the rent or the analysts.  Investors could have chosen to invest only with hedge funds that could sustain themselves through hard times, but they didn&#039;t. They chose instead to give the fund managers a sort of &quot;insurance&quot; that the fees would not dry up immediately.  Caveat emptor.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The prevalence of gating features creates an interesting effect on any new hedge fund that might be interested in launching without a gate.  If you try to start a fund like that, the lawyers who advise you will highlight to you the fact that if you have no gate but everyone else does, your clients will view you as their first source of liquidity when times get tough.  You could be the very best manager in your client&#039;s portfolio, but if he needs money, he&#039;s going to take it from where he can, and if that means all the money comes from you and that you are going to go under, too bad for you, you should have had a gate too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ability of the general partner to block or slow the rate of redemptions is a standard feature of almost all hedge funds.  Normally this ability is triggered by redemption requests that exceed a certain percentage of the total fund. Any investor claiming to be surprised by this is either lying or failed to read the prospectus. In most cases, it is not, as Yves suggests, some sort of violation of the contract. </p>
<p>Hedge fund fees are ridiculous and the gating features are perhaps onerous, but they are not entirely unjustified. They can serve to protect the interests of a fund&#8217;s investors by preventing a fire sale of illiquid assets and by ensuring that all clients are treated equally.  It&#8217;s also true that the gate has the convenient side benefit of temporarily propping up the fee due to the manager.  Even this is not entirely without logic, however. Many of the hedge funds that were started in the last few years have no operating capital behind them.  Without the fees coming in, they can&#8217;t pay the rent or the analysts.  Investors could have chosen to invest only with hedge funds that could sustain themselves through hard times, but they didn&#8217;t. They chose instead to give the fund managers a sort of &#8220;insurance&#8221; that the fees would not dry up immediately.  Caveat emptor.</p>
<p>The prevalence of gating features creates an interesting effect on any new hedge fund that might be interested in launching without a gate.  If you try to start a fund like that, the lawyers who advise you will highlight to you the fact that if you have no gate but everyone else does, your clients will view you as their first source of liquidity when times get tough.  You could be the very best manager in your client&#8217;s portfolio, but if he needs money, he&#8217;s going to take it from where he can, and if that means all the money comes from you and that you are going to go under, too bad for you, you should have had a gate too.</p>
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		<title>By: fresno dan</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/hedgies-still-blowing-up-markets-oh-my.html#comment-24688</link>
		<dc:creator>fresno dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Basic (or stupid) question here.  How far out (in time) do typical (like 90%) hedges go?  Whats the extreme?  Do institution hedge for a month?  6 months?  A year?  3 or 4 years?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basic (or stupid) question here.  How far out (in time) do typical (like 90%) hedges go?  Whats the extreme?  Do institution hedge for a month?  6 months?  A year?  3 or 4 years?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/hedgies-still-blowing-up-markets-oh-my.html#comment-24682</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>there is too much money in this world</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there is too much money in this world</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/hedgies-still-blowing-up-markets-oh-my.html#comment-24681</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hedge funds charge a 20% fee for alpha AND beta. I can buy beta from a Vanguard index fund for 9 basis points. Hedge fund fees are a joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hedge funds charge a 20% fee for alpha AND beta. I can buy beta from a Vanguard index fund for 9 basis points. Hedge fund fees are a joke.</p>
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		<title>By: mxq</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/hedgies-still-blowing-up-markets-oh-my.html#comment-24679</link>
		<dc:creator>mxq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>So long, 2/20!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/43a0a110-ac43-11dd-bf71-000077b07658.html&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;FT&lt;/a&gt;: &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Mr Owayda said the “2 and 20” model, whereby private equity groups charge an annual fee of 2 per cent of funds raised and take 20 per cent of any profits – was a relic from a time when most buy-out funds were much smaller. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;“For some reason that 2 per cent stuck even when somebody is raising $10bn,” he said. Hedge funds, which use a similar 2 and 20 model, have already come under pressure to cut fees after the dire returns suffered by their industry this year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So long, 2/20!</p>
<p><a HREF="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/43a0a110-ac43-11dd-bf71-000077b07658.html" REL="nofollow">FT</a>: </p>
<p>Mr Owayda said the “2 and 20” model, whereby private equity groups charge an annual fee of 2 per cent of funds raised and take 20 per cent of any profits – was a relic from a time when most buy-out funds were much smaller. </p>
<p>“For some reason that 2 per cent stuck even when somebody is raising $10bn,” he said. Hedge funds, which use a similar 2 and 20 model, have already come under pressure to cut fees after the dire returns suffered by their industry this year.</p>
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		<title>By: thomas j</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/hedgies-still-blowing-up-markets-oh-my.html#comment-24666</link>
		<dc:creator>thomas j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 14:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>In a speech given at NYU law school during March 2007, Bernanke explained:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Bernanke said the regulatory oversight applied to hedge funds was “relatively light” and acknowledged that their growing market share had raised concerns about possible systemic risks. “The failure of a highly leveraged fund holding large, concentrated positions could involve the forced liquidation of those positions, possibly at fire-sale prices, thereby imposing heavy losses on counterparties,” primarily very large commercial and investment banks, Mr. Bernanke said. “In the worst scenarios, these counterparty losses could lead to further defaults or threaten systemically important institutions,” he added.&lt;br/&gt;Reuters&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;No shit sherlock. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;(Reuters)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a speech given at NYU law school during March 2007, Bernanke explained:</p>
<p>Mr. Bernanke said the regulatory oversight applied to hedge funds was “relatively light” and acknowledged that their growing market share had raised concerns about possible systemic risks. “The failure of a highly leveraged fund holding large, concentrated positions could involve the forced liquidation of those positions, possibly at fire-sale prices, thereby imposing heavy losses on counterparties,” primarily very large commercial and investment banks, Mr. Bernanke said. “In the worst scenarios, these counterparty losses could lead to further defaults or threaten systemically important institutions,” he added.<br />Reuters</p>
<p>No shit sherlock. </p>
<p>(Reuters)</p>
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