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	<title>Comments on: New York Times: Citi Woes Due to Lousy Risk Controls, Plus Prince&#8217;s and Rubin&#8217;s Strategy</title>
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	<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy.html</link>
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		<title>By: Sachin</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy.html#comment-40708</link>
		<dc:creator>Sachin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy-risk-controls-plus-princes-and-rubins-strategy/#comment-40708</guid>
		<description>I still find it terribly interesting that lending is flowing at all, and further, that it would be had the existing lines of credit not been available..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still find it terribly interesting that lending is flowing at all, and further, that it would be had the existing lines of credit not been available..</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy.html#comment-31851</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 10:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy-risk-controls-plus-princes-and-rubins-strategy/#comment-31851</guid>
		<description>When the world financial system was shuddering in 1997 -- in a climate of global fear similar to today, though less intense -- Messrs. Geithner and Summers spoke over Thanksgiving weekend that year to hash out a way to craft a rescue package for South Korea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the world financial system was shuddering in 1997 &#8212; in a climate of global fear similar to today, though less intense &#8212; Messrs. Geithner and Summers spoke over Thanksgiving weekend that year to hash out a way to craft a rescue package for South Korea.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy.html#comment-26805</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 01:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy-risk-controls-plus-princes-and-rubins-strategy/#comment-26805</guid>
		<description>you mean walter duranty. anyway, rubin&#039;s role in facilitating this mess is finally becoming known.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you mean walter duranty. anyway, rubin&#8217;s role in facilitating this mess is finally becoming known.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy.html#comment-26785</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy-risk-controls-plus-princes-and-rubins-strategy/#comment-26785</guid>
		<description>1) Yves: &quot;Um, credit risk and marker risk are two different things.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Respectfully, sir, this is plain wrong. In fact it was the mistaken notion that &#039;market risk&#039; and &#039;credit risk&#039; are wholly divisible that mightily contributed to this disaster.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As we just witnessed on a colossal scale, credit risk and market risk get more and more tightly bound as things go wrong.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;2) Blissex: Your comments suggest you view yourself as Ivy League material, but they also suggest you would be eliminated by any company adhering to the No A**hole rule.  Presume for a moment, painful as it may be, that both are true --- what does that alone say about the &#039;guaranteed value&#039; of a being a real winner with a Yale/Harvard education?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;3) Yves: Your point about the end beginning with Sandy Weil&#039;s assumption of leadership is dead on. And it should be remembered that it was --- no surprise --- Bob Rubin who sat atop Citi and arbitrated the removal of John Reed in favor of his buddy Weil.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As to the long-term value of Weil&#039;s &#039;roll-up and ignore operations&#039; scheme, funnily enough his daughter Jessica Bibliowicz is now scraping her knees with that same strategy. But all sorts of buildings now have Sandy&#039;s name etched onto them, so for the family it was a big win.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;4) The fact that the NY Times would dare pound a little on Bob Rubin is a remarkable turnabout --- they lionized him regularly until today, including featuring him on their Sunday magazine during the Clinton era. As we usually say in happier times with respect to a  job promotion: overdue and well-deserved!  Now, NY Times, how about Walter Durant?...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Yves: &#8220;Um, credit risk and marker risk are two different things.&#8221;</p>
<p>Respectfully, sir, this is plain wrong. In fact it was the mistaken notion that &#8216;market risk&#8217; and &#8216;credit risk&#8217; are wholly divisible that mightily contributed to this disaster.  </p>
<p>As we just witnessed on a colossal scale, credit risk and market risk get more and more tightly bound as things go wrong.</p>
<p>2) Blissex: Your comments suggest you view yourself as Ivy League material, but they also suggest you would be eliminated by any company adhering to the No A**hole rule.  Presume for a moment, painful as it may be, that both are true &#8212; what does that alone say about the &#8216;guaranteed value&#8217; of a being a real winner with a Yale/Harvard education?</p>
<p>3) Yves: Your point about the end beginning with Sandy Weil&#8217;s assumption of leadership is dead on. And it should be remembered that it was &#8212; no surprise &#8212; Bob Rubin who sat atop Citi and arbitrated the removal of John Reed in favor of his buddy Weil.  </p>
<p>As to the long-term value of Weil&#8217;s &#8216;roll-up and ignore operations&#8217; scheme, funnily enough his daughter Jessica Bibliowicz is now scraping her knees with that same strategy. But all sorts of buildings now have Sandy&#8217;s name etched onto them, so for the family it was a big win.</p>
<p>4) The fact that the NY Times would dare pound a little on Bob Rubin is a remarkable turnabout &#8212; they lionized him regularly until today, including featuring him on their Sunday magazine during the Clinton era. As we usually say in happier times with respect to a  job promotion: overdue and well-deserved!  Now, NY Times, how about Walter Durant?&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy.html#comment-26779</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy-risk-controls-plus-princes-and-rubins-strategy/#comment-26779</guid>
		<description>Robert Reich&#039;s Blog (http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2008/11/why-citigroup-is-about-to-be-bailed-out.html) makes a case for bailing out GM rather than Citi. That would mirror the thinking of the incoming administration. Who is more powerful at the moment: current or the incoming administration?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;Nonetheless, Citi is about to be bailed out while GM is allowed to languish. That&#039;s because Wall Street&#039;s self-serving view of the unique role of financial institutions is mirrored in the two agencies that run the American economy -- the Treasury and the Fed. Their job, as they see it, is to keep the financial economy &quot;sound,&quot; by which they mean keeping Wall Street&#039;s own investors and creditors happy.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Because the public doesn&#039;t understand the intricacies of finance, it&#039;s easily persuaded that this is the same thing as keeping credit flowing to Main Street. That&#039;s why the public and its representatives have committed $700 billion of taxpayer money to Wall Street and another $500 to $600 billion of subsidized loans to the Street from the Fed -- bailing out the investors and creditors of every major bank, including , momentarily, Citi -- only to discover, at the end of this frantic and unbelievably expensive exercise, that American jobs and communities are more endangered than they were at the start.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert Reich&#8217;s Blog (<a href="http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2008/11/why-citigroup-is-about-to-be-bailed-out.html" rel="nofollow">http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2008/11/why-citigroup-is-about-to-be-bailed-out.html</a>) makes a case for bailing out GM rather than Citi. That would mirror the thinking of the incoming administration. Who is more powerful at the moment: current or the incoming administration?</p>
<p>&#8220;Nonetheless, Citi is about to be bailed out while GM is allowed to languish. That&#8217;s because Wall Street&#8217;s self-serving view of the unique role of financial institutions is mirrored in the two agencies that run the American economy &#8212; the Treasury and the Fed. Their job, as they see it, is to keep the financial economy &#8220;sound,&#8221; by which they mean keeping Wall Street&#8217;s own investors and creditors happy.</p>
<p>Because the public doesn&#8217;t understand the intricacies of finance, it&#8217;s easily persuaded that this is the same thing as keeping credit flowing to Main Street. That&#8217;s why the public and its representatives have committed $700 billion of taxpayer money to Wall Street and another $500 to $600 billion of subsidized loans to the Street from the Fed &#8212; bailing out the investors and creditors of every major bank, including , momentarily, Citi &#8212; only to discover, at the end of this frantic and unbelievably expensive exercise, that American jobs and communities are more endangered than they were at the start.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy.html#comment-26777</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 18:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy-risk-controls-plus-princes-and-rubins-strategy/#comment-26777</guid>
		<description>seems to me the world will be a safer place without Citibank</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>seems to me the world will be a safer place without Citibank</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy.html#comment-26776</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 18:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy-risk-controls-plus-princes-and-rubins-strategy/#comment-26776</guid>
		<description>Why aren&#039;t guys such as Rubin, Greenspan and Summers in jail?  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The guys at Enron went to jail for similar and lesser crimes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why aren&#8217;t guys such as Rubin, Greenspan and Summers in jail?  </p>
<p>The guys at Enron went to jail for similar and lesser crimes.</p>
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		<title>By: doc holiday</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy.html#comment-26774</link>
		<dc:creator>doc holiday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy-risk-controls-plus-princes-and-rubins-strategy/#comment-26774</guid>
		<description>I love déjà vu and Jamais vu:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;When the world financial system was shuddering in 1997 -- in a climate of global fear similar to today, though less intense -- Messrs. Geithner and Summers spoke over Thanksgiving weekend that year to hash out a way to craft a rescue package for South Korea. Their boss, Mr. Rubin, was wary of intervening, afraid the country&#039;s financial problems were so big that an intervention might not make sense. Messrs. Geithner and Summers disagreed, seeing intervention as a key to stabilizing the country. That night, they crafted a proposal they thought would pass muster with Mr. Rubin, who ultimately agreed to the plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love déjà vu and Jamais vu:</p>
<p>When the world financial system was shuddering in 1997 &#8212; in a climate of global fear similar to today, though less intense &#8212; Messrs. Geithner and Summers spoke over Thanksgiving weekend that year to hash out a way to craft a rescue package for South Korea. Their boss, Mr. Rubin, was wary of intervening, afraid the country&#8217;s financial problems were so big that an intervention might not make sense. Messrs. Geithner and Summers disagreed, seeing intervention as a key to stabilizing the country. That night, they crafted a proposal they thought would pass muster with Mr. Rubin, who ultimately agreed to the plan.</p>
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		<title>By: VoiceFromTheWilderness</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy.html#comment-26772</link>
		<dc:creator>VoiceFromTheWilderness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy-risk-controls-plus-princes-and-rubins-strategy/#comment-26772</guid>
		<description>Beware news stories blaming people who are gone, and members of the Clinton admin.  Beware newspaper stories mixing a sudden influx of fact in support of an obviously politically motivated and thoroughly business as usual agenda.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Just remember: it&#039;s always someone elses fault, and you will do fine in corporate america.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beware news stories blaming people who are gone, and members of the Clinton admin.  Beware newspaper stories mixing a sudden influx of fact in support of an obviously politically motivated and thoroughly business as usual agenda.</p>
<p>Just remember: it&#8217;s always someone elses fault, and you will do fine in corporate america.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy.html#comment-26771</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/new-york-times-citi-woes-due-to-lousy-risk-controls-plus-princes-and-rubins-strategy/#comment-26771</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;This is fully legal money, so it must be that they have deserved to earn every dollar of their immense fortunes by creating real value, that&#039;s what their market value was.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Spoken like a true sophisticate.  By any chance, did you have a past life as a courtier at Versailles circa 1788?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This is fully legal money, so it must be that they have deserved to earn every dollar of their immense fortunes by creating real value, that&#8217;s what their market value was.</i></p>
<p>Spoken like a true sophisticate.  By any chance, did you have a past life as a courtier at Versailles circa 1788?</p>
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