Spain has a tradition of dictatorship? What should we say then about Germany? It was German bombers and US money what brought us that tradition with Dictator Franco.

On the contrary, Spain’s first universal suffrage took place in 1933, three decades before that happened in the US (1964).

Much more important to economic growth than EU funds (which were under 1% GDP and just a payment for dismantling some key Spanish industries such as vessel construction and ironworks) are education (40% of the Madrid population hold a university degree, compared to 35% in New York, 28% in Paris or 24% in Sydney) and immigration (over 700,000 immigrants every year in the last decade, compared to none in France and Germany).

By the way, education and immigration are also key factors behind US and UK economic growth; and, admittedly, education stats are much worse in Portugal and Greece.

Best regards,

Diego

Thank you! Finally, somebody spoke the Gospel truth about what the EU really is. One day soon, Germany will wake up, shake the parasites off its back, and start rebuilding its own decaying infrastructure, improving its failing education system, and satisfying its hard-working but exasperated citizenry.

A few months later famine sets into Eastern and Southern Europe. But alas, Mother Russia offers the PIGS free grains and cheap gas in exchange for membership in the New and Improved Soviet Union and the oil-backed RubleZone. And the PIGS make it through the winter!

Vinny Goldberg out.

You must have witnessed the prosperity of Italy’s largest industry: the Mafia.

Vinny Goldberg

BTW, there is a reason why the nations mentioned above have a tradition with dictatorships – that’s the only form of government that works there. I say let’s export Bush to them, and establish an Empire of Texas in Southern and Eastern Europe.

As far as some of the other points made above, I beg to differ that prices in the UK have risen since the pound shed 25%. I currently reside in the UK, but travel frequently to Germany and France (btw, France is another near-backward nation that has become an EU liability), and can assure you a cup of coffee costs nearly twice as much in Germany as it does in the UK. Actually, at the moment I find the UK more affordable than the US, where I lived until a few months ago.

Vinny Goldgerg — a proud American on business exile in Europe, but looking forward to returning to the Land of the Free asap, to spend his fiat currency Dollars on quality American-made products (such as GM and Chrysler 8 cylinder SUVs).

Germany is very dependent on its investment good and long term stuff (like cars) industries. That means a very strong response to the global cycle. But I doubt that in the medium term the market for such stuff is already saturated in Eastern Europe and Asia. So there should be a significant recovery as well, once the global economy gets footage again.

But in general less developed nations grow more than more developed ones, because we measure growth in relative terms but in reality the economy doesn’t grow exponential.

Greece has tons of problems in an absolute sense but is curiously doing better than many other countries. Germany has already entered a recession period but Greece has not yet done so. Here are statistics regarding the third quarter 2008:

http://greeceinfo.wordpress.com/2008/11/18/greeces-economy-surpasses-eurozone-peers/

Greece will be affected by the crisis but let us not jump the gun.

The East Europeans get it. They are fighting like demons and willing to make large sacrifices to get under the Euro. The weaker a country’s own finances and situation are, the more it needs somebody else to run its currency. The only reason a country would want out of the Euro is if the Euro became toxic, probably from deflation in the current scenario.

Devaluation is a temporary help with large long-term harm. Even on a short-term the benefits would probably be outweighed by the mess resulting from leaving the Eurozone and effectively having to renegotiate every contract written by anyone in the country.

@pv: only the ECB can print euros, not the countries

Why is the S&P opining about these 2 countries? It sounds to me that by doing this they are deflecting attention from our own eventual collapse. Its like a very insecure person talking bad everyone they work with to hide there own failings in life. I just got back from Italy (been going there for 13 years). I havent seen so many apartments being built and so many people with pockets full of cash. As we flew into Rome you can see the active mining going on for raw materials to build with. Stores being renovated, brand new BMW's, Audi's and Porsche's. Where is the financial crisis in Italy that we keep reading about? I remember when they didn't have a pot to piss in.