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	<title>Comments on: More on the Simply Dreadful Performance of CDOs</title>
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		<title>By: Ginger Yellow</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/02/more-on-simply-dreadful-performance-of.html#comment-39034</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginger Yellow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>While I&#039;m all for writing down CDOs of ABS to zero or thereabouts, I&#039;m not really sure where Tett&#039;s logic is coming from.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;After all, if an open auction ends up pricing mortgage-linked CDOs near zero, at least the capital hit to the banks and insurance companies will be clear&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Investors are free to completely write off the CDO of ABS holdings themselves in their capital calculations if they want a worst case scenario. The holders are finally giving enough disclosure to allow that. I fail to see how actually liquidating the entire sector in the middle of a financial and economic crisis and guaranteeing a worst case scenario helps things. It certainly doesn&#039;t make things clearer in any meaningful sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I&#8217;m all for writing down CDOs of ABS to zero or thereabouts, I&#8217;m not really sure where Tett&#8217;s logic is coming from.</p>
<p>&#8220;After all, if an open auction ends up pricing mortgage-linked CDOs near zero, at least the capital hit to the banks and insurance companies will be clear&#8221;</p>
<p>Investors are free to completely write off the CDO of ABS holdings themselves in their capital calculations if they want a worst case scenario. The holders are finally giving enough disclosure to allow that. I fail to see how actually liquidating the entire sector in the middle of a financial and economic crisis and guaranteeing a worst case scenario helps things. It certainly doesn&#8217;t make things clearer in any meaningful sense.</p>
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		<title>By: dd</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/02/more-on-simply-dreadful-performance-of.html#comment-38844</link>
		<dc:creator>dd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Can we stop calling them &quot;CDOs?&quot; They are beneficial interests in a trust. It&#039;s the modern version of Bleakhouse and the entire trust estate will be consumed soon enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can we stop calling them &#8220;CDOs?&#8221; They are beneficial interests in a trust. It&#8217;s the modern version of Bleakhouse and the entire trust estate will be consumed soon enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Krakpotkin</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/02/more-on-simply-dreadful-performance-of.html#comment-38841</link>
		<dc:creator>Krakpotkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 23:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Brits tend to use different terminology in structured finance.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This FT piece seems to be talking about what we call CMOs -- Collateralized Mortgage Obligations.  What we call CDOs tend to be diversified (eg, all the CDOs I worked on this decade had no more than 5% mortgage assets).  This article is not talking about them.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A CMO goes into technical default if ANY of its tranches eg fail to meet an interest payment. Thus a AAA tranche can be in default even if it&#039;s still getting its interest every quarter.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As for the miserable liquidation return reported.  If a CMO gets unwound, that means you crack open the s-f shell and sell the assets inside.  In this case, mortgage bonds (MBS -- mortgage ABS).  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But the market for same has been zero during the crisis.  Thus anyone unfortunate enough to liquidate a CMO during the crisis is going to get very little when he goes to sell the MBS inside -- regardless of how the MBS are themselves performing.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;All of this to my eye tends to mitigate the horror of the headline to this story.  Not that the world is not horrible.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The great error during this time is to liquidate the mortgage assets in a non-existent market.  Compulsions to do so can come from various sources.  Lucky are the holders who are able either by the terms of their agreements or negotiation to re-write the instruments to allow the portfolio managers to hold on.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;At bottom the question is -- how are the mortgages performing?  And then:  how are the MBS (composed of mortgages) performing?  Only then can one evaluate, really, the state of affairs at to CMO (composed ob MBS) performance.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Still -- the numerical tidbits in the article are worth filing.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Accurate data on true performance is generally closely held by the holders.  No different that the daily price of porgies among the various players at the Fulton Fish Market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brits tend to use different terminology in structured finance.</p>
<p>This FT piece seems to be talking about what we call CMOs &#8212; Collateralized Mortgage Obligations.  What we call CDOs tend to be diversified (eg, all the CDOs I worked on this decade had no more than 5% mortgage assets).  This article is not talking about them.</p>
<p>A CMO goes into technical default if ANY of its tranches eg fail to meet an interest payment. Thus a AAA tranche can be in default even if it&#8217;s still getting its interest every quarter.</p>
<p>As for the miserable liquidation return reported.  If a CMO gets unwound, that means you crack open the s-f shell and sell the assets inside.  In this case, mortgage bonds (MBS &#8212; mortgage ABS).  </p>
<p>But the market for same has been zero during the crisis.  Thus anyone unfortunate enough to liquidate a CMO during the crisis is going to get very little when he goes to sell the MBS inside &#8212; regardless of how the MBS are themselves performing.</p>
<p>All of this to my eye tends to mitigate the horror of the headline to this story.  Not that the world is not horrible.</p>
<p>The great error during this time is to liquidate the mortgage assets in a non-existent market.  Compulsions to do so can come from various sources.  Lucky are the holders who are able either by the terms of their agreements or negotiation to re-write the instruments to allow the portfolio managers to hold on.</p>
<p>At bottom the question is &#8212; how are the mortgages performing?  And then:  how are the MBS (composed of mortgages) performing?  Only then can one evaluate, really, the state of affairs at to CMO (composed ob MBS) performance.</p>
<p>Still &#8212; the numerical tidbits in the article are worth filing.  </p>
<p>Accurate data on true performance is generally closely held by the holders.  No different that the daily price of porgies among the various players at the Fulton Fish Market.</p>
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		<title>By: CityUnslicker</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/02/more-on-simply-dreadful-performance-of.html#comment-38839</link>
		<dc:creator>CityUnslicker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 22:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Cathryn do you work in the educational system per chance?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Nothing will be fixed until the ratings agencies get tar heeled. Auditors too. You can&#039;t have a clean system run by dirty players.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cathryn do you work in the educational system per chance?</p>
<p>Nothing will be fixed until the ratings agencies get tar heeled. Auditors too. You can&#8217;t have a clean system run by dirty players.</p>
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		<title>By: Cathryn Mataga</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/02/more-on-simply-dreadful-performance-of.html#comment-38838</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathryn Mataga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 22:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I just thought of something.  Didn&#039;t CITI get something like $300B in  guarantees for this stuff?  How does that work exactly?  Does this mean the government might actually have to come up with the $300B?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just thought of something.  Didn&#8217;t CITI get something like $300B in  guarantees for this stuff?  How does that work exactly?  Does this mean the government might actually have to come up with the $300B?</p>
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		<title>By: Cathryn Mataga</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/02/more-on-simply-dreadful-performance-of.html#comment-38835</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathryn Mataga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m a little relieved, really.  After all this time, the true level of the disaster is coming out.  Let&#039;s get more of the bad news out sooner!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think this means we&#039;re finally done with screwball schemes to transfer this stuff to Uncle Sam in exchange for actual money.  Like come on.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I would also suggest a AAAA rating and an AAAAA (no we really mean it this time) for investments that are actually safe, now that AAA has been so debased.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a little relieved, really.  After all this time, the true level of the disaster is coming out.  Let&#8217;s get more of the bad news out sooner!</p>
<p>I think this means we&#8217;re finally done with screwball schemes to transfer this stuff to Uncle Sam in exchange for actual money.  Like come on.  </p>
<p>I would also suggest a AAAA rating and an AAAAA (no we really mean it this time) for investments that are actually safe, now that AAA has been so debased.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/02/more-on-simply-dreadful-performance-of.html#comment-38826</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;How can a mortgage backed CDO have only a 5 percent recovery rate?&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Costs associated with foreclosure, legal fees, back taxes, neglect, vandalism, fraud in pricing, zombie neighborhoods, no buyers, no financing for new buyers, no bottom in sight, cheap rentals, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;How can a mortgage backed CDO have only a 5 percent recovery rate?&#8221;</p>
<p>Costs associated with foreclosure, legal fees, back taxes, neglect, vandalism, fraud in pricing, zombie neighborhoods, no buyers, no financing for new buyers, no bottom in sight, cheap rentals, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Disgusted</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/02/more-on-simply-dreadful-performance-of.html#comment-38814</link>
		<dc:creator>Disgusted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Astonishingly, the lawyers and credit officers who oversaw this business (FI Legal, Structured Credit) are STILL WORKING at the large firms (or their successors) who went down as a result of over-indulging in this crap.  One big one is head of AI at Credit Suisse and another keeping his head under the radar at Merrill, while yet another is holding down the fort for Legal and trying to edge out the competition at Barclays.  To those of us who for years screamed to senior management, the Fed, the SEC, whoever would listen, that this business was unsustainable and much of it illegal (they were shilling it like it was IBM when I was at one of them in the late 90s/early 2000s)...it seems like nothing has changed.  The same peabrains are calling the shots and the regulators are keeping their heads in the sand.  One very good lawyer from UVa I believe had his head chopped off for drawing to his bosses&#039; (and Gary Lynch&#039;s) attention how very nefarious the CDO business at Credit Suisse was circa about 2000-2001.  His former managers are still hanging around, one at CS, one at UBS, and of course Gary Lynch is GC at MS.  To this day, no one at the SEC has an interest in hearing what really went on on those desks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Astonishingly, the lawyers and credit officers who oversaw this business (FI Legal, Structured Credit) are STILL WORKING at the large firms (or their successors) who went down as a result of over-indulging in this crap.  One big one is head of AI at Credit Suisse and another keeping his head under the radar at Merrill, while yet another is holding down the fort for Legal and trying to edge out the competition at Barclays.  To those of us who for years screamed to senior management, the Fed, the SEC, whoever would listen, that this business was unsustainable and much of it illegal (they were shilling it like it was IBM when I was at one of them in the late 90s/early 2000s)&#8230;it seems like nothing has changed.  The same peabrains are calling the shots and the regulators are keeping their heads in the sand.  One very good lawyer from UVa I believe had his head chopped off for drawing to his bosses&#8217; (and Gary Lynch&#8217;s) attention how very nefarious the CDO business at Credit Suisse was circa about 2000-2001.  His former managers are still hanging around, one at CS, one at UBS, and of course Gary Lynch is GC at MS.  To this day, no one at the SEC has an interest in hearing what really went on on those desks.</p>
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		<title>By: russell1200</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/02/more-on-simply-dreadful-performance-of.html#comment-38806</link>
		<dc:creator>russell1200</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>http://www.riskglossary.com/link/collateralized_debt_obligation.htm&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A good link.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;CDO is not all what it appears to be.  It can have a credit default swap sold out of it (making it a synthetic CDO) for instance.  In some cases the higher rated portions were made up of large chunks of agglomerated left overs that had no takers.  Through a second tranching of the junk, they were able to turn some of the junk into a higher grade product (take the top of the income stream of a bunch of  Bs and get some As out of it.  The idea being that not all of the lower tranche mortgage bonds will go belly up because &quot;of course&quot; they act independently of each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.riskglossary.com/link/collateralized_debt_obligation.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.riskglossary.com/link/collateralized_debt_obligation.htm</a></p>
<p>A good link.</p>
<p>CDO is not all what it appears to be.  It can have a credit default swap sold out of it (making it a synthetic CDO) for instance.  In some cases the higher rated portions were made up of large chunks of agglomerated left overs that had no takers.  Through a second tranching of the junk, they were able to turn some of the junk into a higher grade product (take the top of the income stream of a bunch of  Bs and get some As out of it.  The idea being that not all of the lower tranche mortgage bonds will go belly up because &#8220;of course&#8221; they act independently of each other.</p>
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		<title>By: Beanster</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/02/more-on-simply-dreadful-performance-of.html#comment-38801</link>
		<dc:creator>Beanster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is depressing.  I need some comfort food - pass the pork brains!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is depressing.  I need some comfort food &#8211; pass the pork brains!</p>
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