By Lambert Strether of Corrente.
“At what point shall we expect the approach of danger?” –Abraham Lincoln, The Lyceum Address
Here is the current EC status from 270toWin (which nets out the same as O.G. Larry Sabato’s):
Agonizingly close, then.
I think it’s fair to say that if the Democrats believe what they say about Trump, then they cannot possibly allow him to take office. And yet, there has been curiously little public discussion about what they might actually do to prevent that event, should Trump be in a position to win the Electoral College (EC) vote, the day after Election Day.
I would speculate that discussion of “The Day After” has taken place — like so many matters of importance, these days — in rooms we will never enter. And so — again as like so many matters of importance — we don’t really know what anyone is after. But it would be irresponsible not to speculate. In this post, I’m going to focus on what the Democrats might do, partly because I came up through the Democrats, so I’m more familiar with the players and their collective mentality. More importantly, from 2016 (RussiaGate) – 2020 (lawfare), the Democrats have form.
Readers will recall that I have periodically muttered that the parties must be wargaming out 2024 (just as Democrats did in 2020). In fact, the Democrats are doing just that. In this post, I’ll first compare 2020’s “Transition Integrity Project” with 2024’s “Democracy Futures Project.” I will then present one scenario that seems to have emerged from whatever hive mind produced the wargame, and that depends on the functional equivalent of a Color Revolution. I will then speculate on where the energy to mobilize such a color revolution would come from, and who the footsoldiers would be. Finally, I will present the closest thing there was in Election 2016 to a color revolution, the Women’s March (“pink pussy hats”), and speculate how a successor might be modified to achieve greater success through the admixture of more items from the list of Gene Sharp’s “198 Methods of Non-Violent Resistance” (Sharp being the theorist of color revolutions). Of course, all this meta-war gaming is a little bit mad, with a hegemonic yet unelected establishment using the tools of, er, resistance, to carry out an autogolpe, but here we are. Because we know so little, I will have to string together a lot of this with bubbe gum and baling wire (that being my preference to an overly tight yarn diagram). I hope this post stimulates discussion, at least.
Projects to Defend “Our Democracy”: 2020 and 2024
Vox describes Election 2020’s Transition Integrity[1] Project (TIP) (Aug 18, 2020):
This may sound far-fetched. But in June, an organization called the Transition Integrity Project (TIP) convened a group of more than 100 bipartisan experts to simulate what might happen the day after Election Day — running a kind of political “war game” where veteran Democrats role-played as the Biden campaign and veteran Republicans acted as the Trump team.
They simulated four scenarios: a big Biden victory, a narrow Biden win, an indeterminate result à la the 2000 election, and a narrow Trump victory. In every scenario but a massive Biden blowout, things went south.
Here are the results of the wargames. More:
“We anticipate lawsuits, divergent media narratives, attempts to stop the counting of ballots, and protests drawing people from both sides,” TIP writes in a post-exercise report summarizing their findings. “The potential for violent conflict is high, particularly since Trump encourages his supporters to take up arms.”
Nils Gilman, the vice president of programs at the Berggruen Institute think tank, is one of the project’s co-founders. In his view, the exercise highlighted key flaws in our electoral system, ranging from the rickety 18th-century design of the presidential election system to our modern plague of hyperpartisanship. These problems, Gilman says, make the electoral system particularly vulnerable to a catastrophic collapse in 2020 — and some of them could still be addressed before it’s too late.
Note that mass mobilization has formed part of Democrat “Day After” thinking since 2020[2]:
Nils Gilman, the vice president of programs at the Berggruen Institute think tank, is one of the project’s co-founders…. And ordinary citizens, Gilman says, “need to be prepared to take to the street in nonviolent protest” if the results appear to be corrupted — one of the last lines of defense when a political system breaks down.
Biden won, so no mass mobilization was needed.
The Guardian describes Election 2024’s (notably bipartisan) Democracy Futures Project (July 30, 2024):
About 175 people participated in five exercises, bringing to the process an extraordinary wealth of bipartisan institutional knowledge. Among the lineup were senior officials from successive administrations of both parties, including the Trump administration.
They came with a mission: to wargame Trump acting out the most extreme authoritarian elements of his agenda and explore what could be done, should he win in November, to protect democracy in the face of possible abuses of power.
Here again we have mass mobilization along with what seems to be the desired result. Trump, in the scenario, is legitimately elected, and then this happens:
It is the afternoon of 20 January 2025 and Donald Trump is in his White House dining room, glued to the same TV where he sat transfixed as the January 6 attack on the US Capitol unfolded four years ago. This morning, he completed one of the most spectacular political comebacks in US history, reciting the oath of office at the inauguration ceremony that returned him to the most powerful job on Earth.
His political resurrection has caused turmoil in the transition period, and massive anti-Trump demonstrations have erupted in several big cities. In his inaugural address, the 47th president makes clear his intention to deal with his detractors: “They are rioting in the streets. We are not safe. Make our cities safe again!” he commands.
The peaceful marches are portrayed on Fox News, the channel he is watching, as anarchic disorder. Trump grows increasingly incensed, and that evening calls his top team into the situation room with one purpose in mind: to end the demonstrations by any means necessary.
“I need to make sure that our streets are safe from those who are running amok trying to overthrow our administration,” he tells the group of top law enforcement, national security and military officials. A flicker of alarm ripples through the room as the president cites the Insurrection Act, saying it allows him to call up the national guard in key states to suppress what he calls the “rebellion”.
Discerning the concern among his top officials, Trump gives them an ultimatum. He is in no mood to compromise or stand down – he did that in his first term in the face of “deep state” opposition. “I have been charged by the American people to make this country great again,” he states, “and I need to know right now that everybody in this room is on board.”
(This war game was put on by the Brennan Center, although Rosa Brooks[3] participated in both.) Do note the lack of agency in “has caused” and “have erupted.”
Let me know turn to one published proposal for how Democrats might leverage mass mobilization.
“Option 5:” Mass Mobilization (a.k.a. Color Revolution)
From the New York Times Op-Ed page, “There Are Four Anti-Trump Pathways We Failed to Take. There Is a Fifth” (October 24, 2024):
That leaves a fifth strategy: societal mobilization. Democracy’s last bastion of defense is civil society. When the constitutional order is under threat, influential groups and societal leaders — chief executives, religious leaders, labor leaders and prominent retired public officials — must speak out, reminding citizens of the red lines that democratic societies must never cross. And when politicians cross those red lines, society’s most prominent voices must publicly and forcefully repudiate them.
[In Germany, public declarations [by leaders against an AfD meeting with neo-Nazi leaders] took place against the backdrop of the largest street demonstrations in the history of the Federal Republic of Germany. The demonstrations were organized by a civil society coalition called ‘Hand in Hand,’ which encompassed 1,300 different organizations, including unions, churches, doctors’ associations, refugee protection agencies and even environmental groups. Millions of citizens from across the political spectrum gathered week after week in large cities and small towns in defense of democracy. Although the AfD remains very popular in several east German states, its national support has declined by approximately 25 percent since the protest movement began.
When President Bolsonaro began to threaten democratic institutions in the run-up to the 2022 election, Brazilian civil society mobilized in a similar manner. Mr. Bolsonaro threatened the Supreme Court, attacked the legitimacy of the electoral system, and sought to dismantle Brazil’s electronic voting system. This spurred business, religious and civic groups to mobilize.
The authors of this Op-Ed are carefully non-committal about whether this “societal mobilization” takes place before election day, or “The Day After,” if Trump wins, and, if so, what the goal is. I’m going to assume the latter, simply because of the publication date of October 24, and that, unlike the efforts in Germany and Brazil, the Op-Ed seeks to replace an elected government. Therefore, I’d classify it as a Color Revolution.(As in the Democracy Futures Project, the agents and organizers of social mobilization is carefully undefined). WikiPedia (sorry) defines a Color Revolution:
The colour revolutions (sometimes coloured revolutions) were a series of often non-violent protests and accompanying (attempted or successful) changes of government and society that took place in post-Soviet states (particularly Georgia, Ukraine, and Kyrgyzstan) and the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia during the early 21st century. The aim of the colour revolutions was to establish Western-style liberal democracies They were primarily triggered by election results widely viewed as falsified. The colour revolutions were marked by the usage of the internet as a method of communication, as well as a strong role of non-governmental organizations [NGOs: in the protests.
(Russia’s Social Engineering Agency (!!) gives an account of color revolution stages here[4]).
The Women’s March of Election 2016
If we look at the the characteristics of the Women’s March of Election 2016, it looks very much like an self-abortive color revolution (abortive, because if the demand was not for a change of government, what was the point?). WikiPedia once more:
The Women’s March was a worldwide protest on January 21, 2017, the day after the inauguration of Donald Trump as US president…. It was at the time the largest single-day protest in U.S. history… The main protest was in Washington, D.C., and is known as the Women’s March on Washington with many other marches taking place worldwide… The Washington March drew over 470,000 people…. The crowds were peaceful: no arrests were made in D.C., Chicago, Los Angeles, New York City, or Seattle, where a combined total of about two million people marched. The organization’s website states that they wanted to adhere to “the nonviolent ideology of the Civil Rights movement”. Following the march, the organizers of the Women’s March on Washington posted the “10 Actions for the first 100 Days” campaign for joint activism to keep up momentum from the march.
We have the non-violent ideology, we have the heavy NGO involvement, we have the election trigger, we have the color. Here I cannot help but present the following image and caption from Vogue: “The Missoni family wearing pink pussy hats during the finale of the Fall 2017 runway show in Milan“:
Perhaps the most enduring result of the Women’s March was the addition of “pink pussy hat” to the Pantone system of colorways.[5]
Mass Mobilization in 2024
Where would the protest potential for mass mobilization come from the 2024? We can turn to the now-famous Mark Halperin interview with Tucker Carlson for the answer. From the transcript:
[CARLSON:] Let’s say Trump wins. Three weeks from today, what happens? The Democratic Party, I mean, as you said, a lot of Democrats, maybe the majority, believe that Trump becoming president again is the worst thing that ever could happen. So how do they respond to that?
[HALPERIN:] I say this not flippantly. I think it will be the cause of the greatest mental health crisis in the history of the country. I think tens of millions of people will question their connection to the nation, their connection to other human beings, their connection to their vision of what their future for them and their children could be like. And I think that will require an enormous amount of access to mental health professionals. I think it’ll lead to trauma in the workplace. I think there’ll be some degree of.
[CARLSON:] Are you being serious?
[HALPERIN:]100% serious. 100% serious. I think there’ll be alcoholism, there’ll be broken marriages.
[CARLSON:] What?
[HALPERIN:]Yeah, they think he’s the worst person possible to be president. And having won by the hand of Jim Comey and Fluke in 2016 and then performed in office for four years and denied who won the election last time. And January 6, the fact that under a fair election, America chose by the rules, pre agreed to Donald Trump again, I think it will cause the biggest mental health crisis in the history of America. And I don’t think it will be kind of a passing thing that by the inauguration will be fine. I think it will be sustained and unprecedented and hideous, and I don’t think the country is ready for it. It.
[CARLSON:] So mental health crises often manifest in violence.
[HALPERIN:]Yeah, I think there’ll be some violence. I think there’ll be workplace fights. There’ll be fights at birthday kids birthday parties. I think there’ll be protests that will turn violent.
I think Halperin is right on the “psychic energy” that so many liberal Democrats, especially PMC women, have invested in a Kamala win and a Harris loss. But I think Halperin has the order of events reversed. First will come the protests (ideally non-violent, from the standpoint of the organizers), and only afterwards the therapy, alchoholism, broken marriages, and so forth (in fact, protest may be seen as a form of empowerment to avoid all those bad outcomes.
A Color Revolution in 2024?
So, assuming that we have (1) a model for a Color Revolution in the election 2016 Women’s March, and (2) a mobilized populatiion very demographically similar to the Women’s March, plus (3) the non-violent ideology, the heavy NGO involvement, the election trigger, and color (to come: blue?), how would we improve on the Women’s March to yeild a “better” outcome, ideally preventing him from taking office, but certainly punishing his base?
Let’s turn to Gene Sharp, the architect of color revolutions[6], and his famous “198 METHODS OF NONVIOLENT ACTION“[7] (all the methods are numbered, which is really neat). The Women’s March clearly used the following methods:
- Formal statements of all kinds (#1-#6)
- Communications With A Wider Audience (#7-#12), but most importantly:
- #19 Wearing of symbols (the “pink pussy hats”)
- #38 Marches
And that’s basically it. No economic non-cooperation; no political non-cooperation; no non-violent interventions.
Now let’s fast forward to 2024, and realize that (1) our “mobilized population” is the PMC, and that it’s class-conscious, and that (2) the NGOs include, as the Women’s March did not, members of the intelligence community (remember this is an autogolpe by a hegemonic class):
- #50 Teach-ins (on Constitutional issues)
- #55 Social boycott (of Trumpists)
- #57 Lysistratic nonaction (we’ve seen this from Kamala already)
- #76 National consumers’ boycott (of Trump-supporting entities)
- #143 Blocking of lines of command and information (by the organs of state security)
- #173 Nonviolent occupation (perhaps not the capital, this time)
- #187 Seizure of assets (bank employees, as with the Canadian truckers)
- #86 Withdrawal of bank deposits (major corporatioons, from big banks)
- #198 Dual sovereignty and parallel government (why not?)
This “Color Revolution” would have, as the Women’s March did not, but previous color revolutions in foreign countries did, the weight of the entire Democratic apparatus behind it (Democrat electeds, the press, NGOs, the organs of state security, etc.) So if you want to establish a “permission structure” for overthrowing a government that you regard as fascist. the above methods could be very helpful, particularly if they appeared to be outpourings from a spontaneous movement, as the press would surely present it.
Conclusion
“We’re bringing the war back home!” as Firesign Theatre sang. In the case of a Trump victory, it would certainly seem odd if the Democratic apparatus, allied with the Blob, did not use same tools to “defend democracy” here at home that they have used with such success abroad
NOTES
[1] “Never eat at a place called “Mom’s”.’
[2] The example cited is the Movement for Black Lives, which ultimately accomplished little.
[3] Rosa Brooks is the daughter of John Ehrenreich and Barbara Ehrenreich (of “PMC” fame). Pete Buttigieg’s father translated Gramsci; Kamala’s father was a Marxist scholar. What is it with these blue diaper babies?
[4] Amusingly, the Russian view: “Put simply, the Russian understanding of ‘colour revolutions’ is a ‘coup d’ état’ supported by the West” (or what we might define as The Blob).
[5] Unkind to the creator of the hat, Krista Suh, but here we are.
[6] See Jacobin, “Gene Sharp, the Cold War Intellectual Whose Ideas Seduced the Left.”
[7] As readers know, I love classification systems, and have been quite taken with “198 Methods,” but I don’t think it’s a very rigorous scheme. For example, “Establishing new social patterns” (174) and “Overloading of facilities” (175) are clearly at different levels of abstraction, but are placed adjacent to each other.
123 comments
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Everybody needs to get a grip.
There will be another blue and red circus in four years.
I hate that “needs to” locution; it’s infantilizing. I don’t go around telling other people what they need.
You’re a dick.
I’m sure you’re talking mean street detective which beat lambert walks, avoiding the glare of streetlights and frequenting low places in the wee hours, hoping for a peaceful moment…when in walks a wiseacre stranger in a wedding dress…
Strether sighed, and put down his coffee. Just looking at the dame’s face he could tell this was a real long-wader job.
“Sure doll-face,” he snarled, “I’ll find your democracy. But first, cough up the transcript.”
But she said that she was-
‘Just a small town girl
Livin’ in a lonely world
She took the midnight train going anywhere’
> “Sure doll-face,” he snarled, “I’ll find your democracy. But first, cough up the transcript.”
I very, very rarely laugh out loud. So thank you for this comment!
Then my day has not been wasted :)
In seriousness, I’ve been reading your work for a long time and I appreciate all you do.
> You’re a dick
A badge of honor, given the source. I hope you find the happiness you seek, elsewhere.
“… cough up the transcript.” So what happens next? It was just getting good.
The action being described is so vague – “get a grip” – that it doesn’t amount to much of an instruction.
More like a phrase expressing exasperation with a situation.
Completely agree. Reading the freakout by WaPo commenters to the Bezos’ editorial defending his non-endorsement tells me we are definitely heading into dangerous territory. Also, the series of editorials by recently resigned WaPo contributing editor, Robert Kagan, is nothing less than a call for a coup, or an assassination, if Trump wins.
When Victoria Nuland’s husband talks about coup-like activities, it carries some weight.
I think in this case ‘ needs to’ is appropriate. ‘Infantalising’ ? Isn’t that how we should treat people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don’t get their way?
Yep. It’s true I live a sheltered life but I have to believe the hysteria is as fake as Kamala’s rallies. Should Trump win it will be helpful for him to also take the popular vote and for that reason the electoral college is a damaging antique.
But the true power centers in the country will be perfectly happy with a Trump win because their DEI is likely also fake. And for any genuine revolution to take place they will need a leader and it can’t be the feckless Harris. The “about nothing” party is a long way from producing another Napoleon, Castro, Lenin etc. People are not going to go to the barricades for Harris the instacandidate. Deep down they know she isn’t qualified for the job.
So it’s all about Trump hate by people who fear the MAGA. Meanwhile out here in MAGA land the Walmarts are crowded with Halloween shoppers. Just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean they are out to get you.
That’s the curious thing. We know that Harris is not going to be the real president even if she wins the election, much the way Joe Biden is not the real president now. The same people did manage to topple governments in Egypt (a deeply divided country), in Ukraine (a nutcase of a country) and South Korea (probably–I strongly suspect it–which was much closer to a nutcase of a country than people thinnk) in the past decade or two. In both cases, there were plenty of potential “trobulemakers” who saw gains for themselves in overthrowing hte existing political structure even if they didn’t share the agenda of their enablers and, well, in all such cases, the outcome did not exactly turn out to be what hte planners decided: the poeple who supply the “muscle” or whatever in overthrowing governments had their own agendas and used their tools to pursue their end. So what I would start is to ask what factions with tools are available to be rented to the “color revolution” schemers, what their agendas are, and how they might try to highjack the color revolution once the dominoes start falling.
I would imagine that a lot of government bureaucracy, security establishments, and law enforcement entities will be available, along with a lot of business types, to sign on with the scheme–if they feel that they can get something out of it (and if they think they can succeed). They are, for what it is worth, already organized and have been gaming for some kind of domestic “emergencies,” as pointed out by Taibbi/Kirn in their latest podcast. We don’t necessarily know what their agenda is and, once things happen, they may not answer to whoever is leading this scheme.
> So what I would start is to ask what factions with tools are available to be rented to the “color revolution” schemers, what their agendas are, and how they might try to highjack the color revolution once the dominoes start falling. I would imagine that a lot of government bureaucracy, security establishments, and law enforcement entities will be available, along with a lot of business types, to sign on with the scheme
Yes, modern-day Pinkertons.
If I am correct in listing tactics from Sharp, those are all services, and you suggest classes of service providers.
Surely the CIA are the go-to guys for colour revolutions. My question: is the core CIA for Trump or Harris?
And also, which is the NRA backing?
Oh I imagine all sorts of alphabet soup wants its share. But the banging of pots and pans out the window–what is the PMC equivalent? A williams-sonoma bag?
I would think the post-George Floyd demonstrations and riots amounted to a move that’s part of a colour revolution. If that assumption is correct, those “service providers” made themselves available for that chapter of the colour revolution, but the guy who was president wasn’t removed nonetheless.
I don’t think that the hysteria is fake. I am sure that there are lots of people who are paid to fake it, as prostitutes are paid to fake orgasms, but unlike the prostitutes I think many of them gradually develop real hysteria.
When I look at our South African media and the people who read and watch it, it’s inconceivable that anyone could do this and not believe either that DJT is the greatest threat to the universe since Ming the Merciless, or that our South African media and the people who pay them are a bunch of delusional psychopaths And, well, they can’t be that, because look at how honestly they cover everything else.
The political circumstances in the US have been degenerating for a long while — just look at the calibre of the candidates. There is no sign of a bottom.
> I have to believe the hysteria is as fake as Kamala’s rallies
It’s very hard for me to believe, too, but the hysteria is real (recall this post where Trump appears in liberal dreams). Many of us have anecdotes of friends or family, and I had to leave an entire section of quotes on the cutting room floor (best one, Katha Pollitt: “The main difference is that I hate people now. Well, not all people, of course. Just people who voted for Trump.”
late to this(i hate when im busy doin farm stuff, when you offer up so much tasty marrow).
the question, right here^, is how many true believers there are, what are their capabilities, and how are they distributed across the country.
the first part…how many…is not simple vote totals, since a lot of that is largely unconscious habit. nor do i necessarily include the spooks in that cohort(they’ll ride that hog if they can and if it looks good to them).
considering all this, i reckon there will be a hue and cry, much rending of garments….likely all over social media for months, and with cringe turned up to 20…but there aint gonna be a revolution, or a colored coup.
i just dont see the mass support.
out here, in my county…which, as yall know, i use as a studiable proxy for america at lrge…the dem true believers are nowhere to be found.
out of all reliable voters(about 1000, out of 4500 total pop), only 1/3 are dems(so 300/4500totalpop who reliably vote blue…but how many of those are hanging on rachel’s every word?)….are not all that influential among the genpop….generally say things(if they say anything in public at all) that the genpop nearby do not understand….and are seen, widely, if passively, as annoying fingerwaggers(many of them, it turns out, are overly concerned with animal welfare, and totally neglect/ignore the welfare of their nearest neighboring humans)…theyre also almost to a person over 65, not in very good health…and none of them have even attempted to mobilise support among the genpop in at least 25 years.
if any of that scales…well…it’ll be a hilarious southpark episode.
so long as musk keeps control of the twitx, etc…
> how many true believers there are
Or you could argue that the Women’s March numbers were very good, and all that be needed is to sustain their presence in DC. They could, for example, create an excellent media opportunity by creating an encampment around the White House.
the hysteria is real, but it is localized.
for a successful Color Revolution, the drive (whether via hysteria, starvation, anger) has to seep through society: pan-class, pan-profession, pan-age, pan-sectarian identity.
IMO. Ymmv.
Well . . . Katha-poo . . . I voted for Trump against Clinton in 2016. And I hate the people who wouldn’t let me have my Sanders. Voting for Trump was an expression of my hatred for you and your kind.
I will never forget what they did to Sanders.
> their DEI is likely also fake
Republican Standard English is so fascinating
the electoral college gets way to much hate. without the college, lincoln would have not won. and the mess caused by free trade and slavery which would have melted down our country into a chaotic mess, ripe for the pickings.
the electoral college protects us against states like california and new york. its imperfect, but it protects the minority from the majority.
in a parliamentary style system, many times 40% plus is considered enough to be a government without a jr. partner.
and if the largest party does not attain the 40% plus, they are forced into taking on a smaller party which now has some power over policy decisions. which gives the minority voters some protection from over reach by the majority.
sounds like the electoral system to me.
The Electoral College apportions power to both land and people. The majority of the population lives within 200 miles of salt water beaches. The same pattern happens at state level with senate/assembly districts.
Is it not possible that Trump will be “allowed” to win? He openly supports ending the fiasco in Ukraine which by all accounts is a defeat for the US. The MIC may approve of this as it would allow them to divert funds to the genocide and Persian war effort?
This will save face too as it was Trumps idea to pull out…
Ps I am really glad I am not in the US, a lot of people go feral over politics, aren’t you better of getting rid of the corporations than other countries?
can you show me your proof?
Not going to happen … another NATO operation NO Action Talk Only : If they could actually do this … then why didn’t they work harder to mobilize people to win the actual election
No matter how hard they worked, the dogs wouldn’t eat the dog food.
So, other methods, even unsound ones, to defend “our democracy.”
Let’s see how Georgia goes this week. Color revolution started there yesterday.
Lambert, I disagreed with your opinion expressed in a previous post about Jan. 6 2021
My view is different – the plan was for a two-pronged attack, metaphorically speaking; the riot to interfere with the election certification, combined with action in Congress to derail the certification process. This was their plan, which was thwarted.
Vanity Fair has an article about how the election results might be overturned this time, as expressed in a conjecture from Congressman Dan Goldman:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/donald-trump-mike-johnson-little-secret-2024-election
Will it be like that? Will it be the way this post here suggests? Or maybe it will be time for something completely different?
I didn’t vote for Harris, nor Trump. In the short run, I agree with the Firesign Theatre: THIS is the future – you got to live it, or live with it.
And, a time TBD, get out of the way – although the person in the street didn’t say so. Which suggests another one of the deeply true observations from the Firesign oeuvre, Fudd’s First Law of Opposition – if you push something hard enough, if will fall over. Modern techno-industrial civilization and the living planet are wrestling – in a way, they are pushing each other – neither will emerge unchanged – but one will outlast the other, I think, although it may take a while.
dave — just dave, forgive me for saying this, but you and the public are being played. The tell,if DanGoldman claims Trump is doing something you can be sure the Democrats are setting him up. Dan Goldman is a Democratic operative who has had his finger in multiple dirty tricks campaigns meant to bring down Trump since long before he was foisted on my district as a faux representative. If you look around you will find him closely tied to the original resistance, active in the Russia!Russia! hoax, prominently mentioned during both impeachments, he even took time out from being a new Congressman to work on Bragg’s Trump case and I have no doubt that given time we will find he gave a hand to Willis in Georgia. Oh and in one of his least problematic generous gifts of his time he also was part of Harris’ debate prep. You start watching and you find Dan everywhere.
I don’t know what will happen when Trump wins, and all signs are pointing to Democrats on the inside thinking he will, but one thing I expect is Russia!Russia! and lawfare type actions on steroids from our not so democratic Democrats And lots of accusations where there is little there there if you look beyond the hysterical proclamations, Dan Goldman above and all the Hitler BS is just the beginning.
> You start watching and you find Dan everywhere.
Some links for further investigation would be useful.
Dan “Wall Street” Goldman represents my district, too. After they redistricted Nydia Velazques, out of it. She well represented us and he absolutely does not.
> he plan was for a two-pronged attack, metaphorically speaking; the riot to interfere with the election certification, combined with action in Congress to derail the certification process. This was their plan, which was thwarted.
I understand the theory, which you present succintly.
First, the place to prove that theory is a court of law, which the Democrats did not succeed in doing over a stretch of four years, and with massive resources, including the State, at their disposal.
Second, anybody who looks at the rioters in detail (as I did), and concludes that they were a “street paramilitary force” is at best not — sorry — a serious person. So if a paramilitary forces is essential to the theory, the theory falls to the ground. And that’s before we get to the substantial presence of the today’s Okhrana among the rioters, a fact for which the theory cannot give an account.
I am not contending the rioters were a “street paramilitary force” – just that they were a mob that came close to achieving the purpose which was intended by those who called them together and pointed them toward the Capitol.
If the Dems hold on to power, there may be an actual trial testing this theory – clearly Trump’s lawyers have done all they can to delay and effectively prevent this.
As for “today’s Okhrana” having a substantial presence among the rioters, the “two pronged action” theory which I have l succinctly summarized doesn’t have to give an account of that phenomenon – the organs of state security are here, there. and almost everywhere.
Their intended purpose was to take selfies. I don’t even believe the Jan. 6 protest was real — it just reeks of a CIA false flag op. For one thing, it was completely incompetent.
No US Embassy in DC.
Conjecture, from Dan Goldman, really? Why not ask Rachel Maddow?
I happen to live in Goldman’s district, and while I’m still undecided about my vote or non-vote for President (not that it matters in NY, or perhaps anywhere), I’m viscerally anticipating voting against that hedge fund-Zionist place holder.
That you would cite him for anything other than the degeneration of contemporary liberalism is just weak.
On a separate but related point, I attended the Pink Pussy Riot Hat demonstration in NYC, and if that’s the model for a Color Revolution, it’s going to be the most embarassing one, ever.
I avoid video and was very disappointed when I finally saw the pink pussy hats. I was expecting something far more Georgia O’Keeffe. They all look like some kind of anime cosplay.
Astute observation. Those are cartoonish characters with oversized “I”s.
America’s second civil war.
The new Fort Sumpter will be an abortion clinic.
Donald Trump as Abe Lincoln – holding the union together at all costs -wasn’t on my bingo card.
I’m glad I am old.
What if Vlad accidentally drops his passport when he unplugs the internet?
Vlad will not unplug the internet, the Dems will: Major National Cybersecurity Exercise on Election Day
Homeland Security (them Dems again) have scheduled a “Cybersecurity Exercise” on elections day. No, not in Wyoming – in Atlanta. “What, me worry?”. Putin’s got other eggs to fry. Our Dems will try to fry us (as in US).
The simplest answer here is that they obviously don’t believe their own rhetoric. There will be no color revolution.
Agreed, but I think that the over-the-top rhetoric is an attempt to convince many people who would otherwise not vote at all to show up at the polling booth.
In my naivete, I always assumed that the best way to get people to show up to vote would be to have compelling candidates, but maybe the internal polling shows that the rhetoric is the best they can do.
> The simplest answer here is that they obviously don’t believe their own rhetoric.
I hope not, but I think that’s wishful thinking.
However, if you are correct, that may, in fact, prove as destructive to the Democrat Party as actual defeat (a desideratum, in my view*). You don’t get to crawl out on a ledge with “Fascist!!!” and then backtrack as if you never said what you said.
NOTE Payback for Sanders.
Tinfoil hat curveball:
Congress will hold another public hearing on UAPs on November 13th. Interesting timing. Leaders of the two committees jointly holding it are Republicans fwiw.
(https://x.com/JoeKhalilTV/status/1850965726317687289)
> another public hearing on UAPs
Yeah, if the aliens land we’ll have to form a government of national unity before we nuke them (an effort that will fail, because of course they have alien technology but you can’t blame a guy for trying).
“Your choice is simple…”
https://youtu.be/M9phuyRknPw
Klaatu barada nikto
“I’ve finally translated the alien book! it’s a Bingo card! Jackpot!”
Could this play out like Y2K – where the worst case scenarios had planes dropping from the skies but come next morning everything was pretty much the same as the previous day? OR could this truly be the added weight that finally breaks the duct-taped union into irreparable pieces? Who knows, but hopefully we’ll have a blow-by-blow live blog that will chart the goings-on post election.
> Could this play out like Y2K
It could, I suppose.
But “Fascist!!!” is a bell that cannot be unrung.
A couple of martyrs could lead to resonant amplification.
“But ‘Fascist’ is a bell that cannot be unrung.”
I don’t know; I’ve been hearing the word used promiscuously forever, first in Lefty circles and in more recent years among #McResistance liberals, signifying little or nothing, and there was plenty of guy-with-the-funny-mustache talk after 2016, which was mostly reflex TDS.
With such unserious people, for whom politik is frequently a performance of one’s moral vanity, and (especially) with the class resources to Move On to something else, it’s just another fact down the memory hole.
We’ll see.
My big post-election fear before the polls swung back towards Trump was a sizable bloc of deep red states refusing the accept the results of a Harris win and setting up the most serious attempt at parallel governing structures since the Civil War. If it went that far I don’t think the parallel institutions would ‘stick’ for long enough to really have to worry about the nukes but they’d push the window of acceptable post-election scenarios just a little bit further for the next round.
For a lot of reasons I don’t have this same fear with the results reversed, although I do see them trying to do a color revolution (though I don’t see it going as far as parallel governing structures in a plurality of states).
> though I don’t see it going as far as parallel governing structures in a plurality of states
I was pushing the envelope. But OTOH what are “sanctuary cities” but a parallel governing structure? (Akin to Calhoun’s theory of “nullification” in the Nullification Crisis, but never mind that).
I remember when this idiotic “flash mob” PR came up. I tried to tell people, it´s unnatural, forced, simple PR bullshit, staged to the tiniest – they wouldn´t listen because it was so cool that suddenly 100 pedestrians would start doing Moon Walk on Times Square – yeah, because THAT´s what you´d expect your average grumpy Manhattan citizen do?
The success of this colour revolution nonsense does also root in the flash mob phenomenon. Latter would prove that people are perceptible to every emptiness over substance if well packaged no matter how serious the subject.
For political culture this is a death sentence. Especially as it appeals to those college educated or aspiring groups who used to be serious about politics in the past in a “Harry & Sally” kind of way. i.e. NOT nc-readers.
Another reason for the success in Europe is the deterioration of academia in the wake of the “Bologna Process”. Academics without serious insight and analytical toolkits to observe these matters with their own mind are easy prey.
#3: The demise of marxist education.
There Democrats go again, wanting to have it both ways!
I dunno, I’ll be starting my alcoholism early on election night!
One of the original sins of the DC Dem. Party is: too many chiefs, and not enough indigenous progenitors of the land.
No “Normie” is going to march/sweat/fight/sacrifice for Harris or Chuck Schumer. And the Dem. base who (hypothetically) will be seething the Saturday after are not going to pay any price, bear any burden, etc. To have a mass mobilization, you need the masses.
The DC Dem and Neocons have no problem sending your neighbor’s kids to fight/die for DC’s beliefs….but put their own skin in the game? Vicky Nuland just wants out cookies (that someone else made), she ain’t no Rosey the Riveter.
I think you underestimate their determination and ability to forgo brunch when it comes to saving ‘Our Democracy’.
> To have a mass mobilization, you need the masses.
Did you read the post? The women’s march did very well on the numbers. True, it had no staying power, but it was not organized to. Surely, in the battle against fascism, the resources (human, financial, media attention) would be there to create the saying power.
idk…again using my county as a proxy…and contradicting that Team Blue doesnt really believe their own rhetoric…i think they do believe it, down deep.
the ones i encounter locally…whom i can sometimes engage with more or less honestly(rather than performatively…so i hafta get them alone,lol)..really do believe the whole of the mess peddled from on high.
they live Woke Intesectionality, Hate Class Analysis, believe that they’re doing gods work(as it were) in Ukraine and even Palestine and Iran…and believe that we must go to war with China…lest they take over the world.
doesnt matter what objectively true facts you throw at them, even when contained in archived pages in Wapo, etc,lol…
but the rest of us are many, to paraphrase Shelley, and they are few….and i dont know a one of them who could last a day without being plugged in to the hive, let alone going without the entire support system of civilisation(as in feeding themselves when the trucks dont run)
and as for the troops…well i dont know any personally…but arent they mainly taken from the underclasses/immigrants?
what have the dems done for them lately?
so some blue govner can call them up…but will they follow such orders?
a more likely scenario is that the demelite, whatever faction of oligarchy is behind them, and the MSM will simply attempt to overly lived reality with more simulacrum like what Diesen was talking about.
so the resistance will exist symbolically, in silos where those folks live.
wearing a pink fuzzy hat is not “paying any cost, bearing any burden.”
will they chain themselves to the white house fence and get arrested? will they (at a basic level) do what many anti-war people have done and shut down highways by literally standing across 10 lanes of traffic?
No way “NPR Wine Auntie and hubby” will do that. IMO. agree to disagree.
I have a few observations about modern Dem (so-called) leadership:
1. They do what the GOP does, but 10 years or so after the GOP did it,
2. All accusations are projection,
3. They will always attack left and down, rarely right or up, and
4. They aren’t that smart or imaginative (see 1. above).
Given these observations, they’ll reuse the pink pussy hats, but a Jan 6 style CF is still at least 4 years away.
The FDR Dems are an outlier. The core of the Democrat party is and always has been a la Andrew Jackson, including the Trail of Tears (supporting the Gaza genocide) but not taking on the bankers (foaming the runway). Reversion to the party’s mean means that the pendulum has to swing a huge arc right and up to make up for FDR.
jackson was also a staunch free trader, and of course a slave owner.
“No ‘Normie’ is going to march/sweat/sacrifice for Harris or Chuck Schumer.”
Indeed: even if they didn’t see Schumer yukking it up with Hitler at the Al Smith Dinner, they pick up on the Kayfabe.
There are some interesting historical facets to consider, especially in light of the gaming sessions that occurred. For example, if we assume that there was a scenario for a tight Trump loss that included popular resistance tactics by Trump supporters, then the police-escorted ‘insurrection’ on Jan. 6 after Trump’s loss could be expected, managed, and could even be used as a trap to discredit Trump and supporters. It would help explain why there was so little police or national guard presence at the Capitol that day. Tracking the introduction of the word ‘insurrection’ in the narrative would be interesting.
A method that the war industry apparatus in the government has used in the past to mount effective resistance has included shenanigans like the ‘accidental’ attack on Russians in Syria to disrupt Obama’s negotiations, and the bungling in Afghanistan when Biden pulled out.
Also, the intelligence community and its contractors are able to do things like surveilling Trump’s main general, and derailing him before he could apply his knowledge against them. The lawfare and blackmail opportunities abound.
That’s why my main concern with the Trump win is the interregnum, where Trump-proofing geopolitics will encourage escalations like the UK-driven Kursk invasion by Ukraine, as careful negations on energy infrastructure were beginning.
And how could I forget the ‘tabletop exercise’ (h/t Matt Taibbi) where the nascent information filter system planned out what to do ‘if some damaging material about Hunter Biden came out that was Russian disinformation’. Somehow anticipating that very thing happening and having a coordinated response in place to successfully suppress a true story and interfere in the election.
> main concern with the Trump win is the interregnum
A big concern, certainly. Recall that when you strip the muffled language away from that Times Op-Ed, they are calling for the overthrow of a legimately elected (modulo lawfare) government.
The Kagans can show ‘them’ how to do it. The Kagans managed a successful overthrow of an existing democratically elected government in Kiev, and just months before a national election for the same office no less.
Look for false flag snipers, rioting “thugs” and other hi-jinx in the District of Colombia to magically ‘appear’ during a massive “Peaceful Demonstration” against a second Trump administration.
In the Maidan Square in Kiev in 2014, peaceful demonstrators were fired upon by fake “Fascist Thugs.” The Deplorable Government was stitched up for the crime and the rest is history. The American and UK Security Services were implicated in the deed. The method worked in the Ukraine. At the least, I would imagine that those irrepressible scamps in the “Deep State” will look long and hard at a repeat of that strategy in America.
The above comes from a realization that every tactic and strategy for civil management and the suppression of dissent ‘deployed’ abroad has eventually “come home” and been used against the citizens of the Imperial Heartland.
Stay safe and prepare.
The Democrats are stupid enough that when it comes time to pick a color for their revolution, they’ll choose orange, and then Trump will win automatically.
That’s why Starmer sent Morgan McSleazey’s crack team of Labour hitpersons in to stop them doing stupid things like that. The colour revolution will be red because that will really fool Trumpists and take them by surprise. Shock and AWE! That’s the depth if their cunning. And they’re doing it on their own time and paying their own expenses and keeping them within the limits set by US law because of their deep love love of democracy and passion for observing legal niceties. Just ask Julian Assange.
> That’s why Starmer sent Morgan McSleazey’s crack team of Labour hitpersons
I dunno. That whole episode is so stupid. Modulo what ever Brit spook scheming there was, I recall that Sanders sent organizers over to help Corbyn. Maybe Labour is stupid enough to think (a) that Sanders wanted the help Labour, and (b) that they can return the favor by helping Democrats, “hands across the sea”-style.
Keir Starmer is a member of the Trilateral Commission. That is the beginning, middle and end of it. It is an Atlanticist blobgasm. An intromission of fruiting bodies between slime moulds.
The last time Democrats, or, at least, their elected officials and supporters, tried engaging in treason on this scale was back in 1861. Just sayin’.
Oops, didn’t see a similar post by Not Again above–same historical reference with a less extreme lingo than me.
Here is an interesting item from WhitePeopleTwitter showing a post from someone suggesting how ballot drop-boxes could be set on fire, just hypotheoretically.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/1gehw99/two_weeks_ago_a_truth_social_user_laid_out_a_plan/
I suppose the answer will be to militarize and surveil drop boxes, instead of having election day being a national holiday where (almost) everybody voters in their precinct, using hand-marked paper ballots, hand counted in public. Just adding another expensive epicycle, here….
>I suppose the answer will be to militarize and surveil drop boxes
Subcontracted out to any one of these companies. Ending up like it was another F-35 program
https://people.defensenews.com/top-100/
“… hand marked paper ballots…”
I’m old enough to remember when this was a suggestion from the *left*. Now it’s considered right-wing conspiracy theorizing. Really, Lambert. What could be safer than high-tech voting machines, computerized vote tabulation, or millions of ballots mailed in from all over everywhere and collected in a wide variety of ways (“diversity” is a *good* thing after all)?
You should focus on the *real* dangers: election interference by Russia, China, and Iran!
https://archive.ph/XEipe
Well, that’s ‘an’ answer, and probably the more likely answer if enough anti-ballot arsonists burn enough ballot drop-boxes.
A National Voting Day Holiday for casting hand-marked legal paper ballots countable by hand would be preferable, so long as all the voting places are armored up to prevent anti-voter/anti poll worker terrorist incidents.
Why go through the trouble of a color revolution?
After watching the Deep State in the Middle East and their fondness of decapitation strikes, wouldn’t that be the path of least resistance? Nothing so tawdry and obvious as a grassy knoll but a deep fryer accident on his next McDonald’s shift isn’t out of the question.
Heart attacks happen a lot to 78 year old men with crappy diets in a high stress jobs surrounded by enemies and enemies dressed like friends.
If I was an DC Bond villain, I’d take inspiration in the finale of Tom Clancy’s “The Bear and the Dragon” and that would be doable with enough $$$$.
Clancy wrote about a decapitation strike just like you described.
I’ll stop typing now…..cuz I don’t want to get put on a list, lol
As I’ve pointed out before, if you’re worried about being on a list, you’re on a list.
This is why trump chose Vance.
A #McResistance fever dream I recently came across is that Trump isn’t Hitler, he’s more like Von Hindenburg, to be pushed aside by the Real Hitler, Vance.
Question (since i don’t follow the campaigns):
Several CW leaders have repeatedly declared publicly that Putin cannot win. Then they cannot accept/stomach facts in the ground. Does the democratic establishment repeatedly say that “Trump cannot win”? This would go beyond their Trump fascist-ization campaign and suggest that there is something of a plan in case Trump wins the election. Not accepting as valid unfriendly election results abroad, will they bring the same strategy to their home country? They may even have prepared many hidden revelations of, for instance, Russian meddling to do the trick. You can foresee on the Carlson-Halperin interview the very same “epic sulking” as with the defeat in Ukraine. He frames it as a health crisis but it is more of a fascistoid thing.
A key determinant on whether street protests can take down a government is how socio-economically diverse the protestors are, in addition to their numbers. Strong willed governments can usually face down street protests from any one sector (students, rural workers, trade unionists, a minority ethnic group, etc) no matter how big the protests are. In reality, historically street protests rarely succeed (at least in the short term). The exception may be when a ruling class is already tottering and just needs a push.
But when groups unite, especially if they include a substantial proportion of the urban middle classes, it represents a much greater danger to the holders of power. In the 1980’s, the autocratic leaders of Taiwan and ROK had both successfully faced down decades of protests, often very violent, against their rule. But in both cases, the protests swelled from including just workers, the poor, or students, to including all the former plus white collar workers, the governments swiftly fell. Ironically, in the subsequent elections, the former autocrats promptly got elected right back in, indicating that the protestors were always a minority.
Any revolt by DNC types will, in effect, be the reverse of this, as it will be the urban middle classes on the streets, with other groups either opposing or just standing back waiting to see what will happen. If Trump (or whoever makes the real decisions), holds their nerve, its hard not to see any such protests simply burning out after a few weeks. It may look a little like the recent Thai protests against the military government. The protestors were for the most part students and Bangkok white collar workers along with some northern rural support, but ultimately they were faced down.
I think predicting the dynamic of any post-election protests is almost impossible. Historically, it was often just a single event, the butterfly flutter, which changes things. Someone burning themselves alive. The police beating to death the wrong person. A random shooting that triggers an over reaction.
I am quite sure the DNC and others have the willingness capacity to set off protests to try to unseat an elected Trump government. What I’m equally sure of is that they have no idea how to control the forces they release.
It is quite possible that a crisis related to the election could arise much earlier than January 20th. Recall that a few nights ago Israel once again sent its F-16s and F-35s to launch missiles aimed at targets in Iran from outside its borders. Although it appears that most of the latter were successfully intercepted and that the few that got through did not cause much damage, Iran has promised to respond. Suppose it chooses to retaliate a day or two after the election, and that instead of doing so perfunctorily it does so massively. How would the shade of Joe Biden react, especially if Trump appears to have won decisively and in view of the fact Netanyahu has been favoring the former president?
I think we’ll see the “Hamilton electors” trotted out again. There needs to be some kind of institutional cover for this, and as flimsy the Hamilton thing is, it would suffice.
One reason why sometimes Color (and organic) Revolutions work is that there is pan-class organization—while the youngsters and intellectuals march in Panem Capitol District, the truckers-teamsters block highways in the outer Districts, the local sheriff and his deputies strike, etc.
Team DC has none of that. The classes and states who physically move things and produce things support Trump.
OK, step 1: Google and media overlays their websites with a black ribbon cuz “Democracy died” or something and mass sit-ins in Manhattan.
counter-escalation: Let’s try functioning without any gasoline refined from the Gulf Coast or heating gas from Oklahoma. Or wheat storied and ground and baked in rural America. Or all the potable water that’s piped in to the Beltway, LA, SF, and NYC from springs-aquifers miles away.
If Trump wins clearly-legitimately, I hope that Establishment DC is dumb enough to attempt literal treason. Give Trump a valid excuse to clean the “so-called Progressive Left” of its Neocons, dolts, grifters via Fort Leavenworth (after a fair trial of course).
If Trump were to go after the actual left (Stein voters, Occupy participants, anti-Zionists, etc.), a substantial amount of Dems (and not just DNC insiders) would prostrate themselves in support.
Trump will do a hard crack-down on these people and the liberals will go along. It will be mostly legal and financial attacks that will cripple dissenters. That is all that’s going to happen. But it’s worse than all the other things liberal are and will be hand wringing about. It’s going to make McCarthyism of the 1950s look like a garden party.
Just “Leavenworth.”
Fort Leavenworth is for dotmil prisoners. Civvies go to the OTHER Leavenworth…. ;-)
Been there, done that.
On the outside, fortunately.
Cleanest and tidiest post in the Army – the prisoners work hard to get out from behind the walls and, well, work hard.
Thank you, Lambert.
A bit of TDS from this side of the pond to keep readers amused:
https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2024/10/27/fascism-is-a-choice/ and https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2024/10/28/trump-scares-me-rigid/.
Trump is a capitalist and Dems like his policies. They just don’t like his persona. Color revolutions are reserved for the Bernie Sanders of the world. We are Latin America.
Dems don’t like tuna that tastes good. They like tuna with good taste.
Ha, caught that, nice! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytb6m_4m0qg
I had a thought yesterday:
Why not a Military Coup? The MIC already gets pretty much everything they ask for. The neocons (unelected) are in control. Congress is bought anyway. Why continue the façade? Why not just cut out the middle men?
Just a thought…
The Pentagon as an institution is not stupid. They have a hard enough time managing just their sphere of interest alone. Why take on the infinitely more complex task of managing a civil society on top of that? As long as they get roughly what they want, let the system in place carry on. Neither candidate has broached the subject of cutting back on the military budgets. It’s bipartisan!
As our friend Killary once asked, “What difference, actually, does it make?”
In our wonderful sham democracy, you can vote for the pro genocide, pro zionist candidate or the pro zionist pro genocide candidate. Tweedledum or Tweedledummer. Glove Puppet A or Glove Puppet B. It is all kabuki theatre. People are allowed and encouraged to engage in furious mock battles over toilets for trannies whilst Blackrock and Vanguard get on with the serious business of looting the country. They all serve the same corporate, globalist, zionist interests. It doesn’t matter. The whole tawdry, degrading spectacle is of no relevance to the lives of ordinary Americans as they watch their country collapsing around them. They might as well elect a stuffed animal or a bagel.
When an actual alternative emerges, such as Jill Stein or the AFD, whatever you think of them, all the stops are pulled out to protect the cosy closed shop monopoly ofcontrolling interests. existing servants of controlling interests. Lawfare, shadow banning, demonetising, ballot stuffing, election rigging, smear campaigns and astro turfed street violence from NGOs with their hundreds of millions from Soros and big business. The author talks of “millions of people from 1,300 organisations.” It might be more accurate to talk of “1,300 people from millions of organisations.” There is no grass roots element in any of this.
And I can’t see why people are so worried about another Trump presidency. He did nothing in his 4 years in power – except do favours for Israel to keep his Zionist megabucks donors happy and appoint Bolton, Pompeo and Haley. Does anybody seriously think it will be any different this time? Build The Wall/ Drain The Swamp/ Jail Crooked Hilary/ Bring The Troops Home/ Rebuild The Infrastructure? How did all that work out, Donny?
Re. “.. color (to come: blue?),…”
I’ll say it will be Purple, for many reasons, not the least of which will be the new political fashion statement of the “Purple Penis Head Cover.” It should go well with “Pink Pussy Hats.” Eventually, we may see “Blue Codpieces?”
The possibilities are endless.
It’s difficult for me to imagine any kind of effective social disorder taking place without a consistent validation by corporate interests. I don’t imagine Harris losing even narrowly will manage to trigger that validation.
Similarly I don’t expect the national security apparatus to have the same 50:50 distribution of sympathies as the general electorate. The front line response to any civil disorder is likely to include many cops, sheriffs FBI etc who are Trump voters and supporters. Maybe even a majority of them.
I thought we learned from last year’s Palestinian campus protests that you can’t make people pay attention to cops and soldiers beating people. Not even here.
>>> The front line response to any civil disorder is likely to include many cops, sheriffs FBI etc who are Trump voters and supporters. Maybe even a majority of them.
IMO, beat cops = 100% yes to Trump, rural sheriffs = 100% yes, FBI = no, police administrators, management, support personnel = 50 to 70% Trump.
If things ever truly went Fort Sumter, DC pundits are insane to think that the bottom 86% of law enforcement will support the DC/media-endorsed figurehead. Truly magical bubble-world thinking
Yikes! To the barricades! Time to think post-apocalypse…good thing I live on an island. Unfortunately we have three bridges. We could blow-up two of them and keep the decrepit one. Most of the locals (except the City Councils) would probably cheer this move. Send out the non-partisan Boy Scouts to defend the old two-lane suspension bridge…wait…we are a deep Blue state. So, we send out the Girl Scouts to defend the last remaining land link to the island with the Brownies as back-up and the Boy Scouts providing logistics to the Girl Scouts by delivering them Girl Scout cookies. The off-island mobilized National Guard would never advance on the Girl Scouts decked out in their green unis and cooking merit badges. As a bonus we lock-out the Massholes, the mufflerless motorcyclists, the hordes of entitled Euro-car drivers and the 15 story cruise ships. We’ll teach Barcelona a thing or two…no pasaran!
The correct response would be for Democrats to slink off to their quiet places to lick their wounds and then in every off-off year party election the base must purge their neoliberal leadership. Then quietly rebuild along the lines of what the base wants (higher min wage, single payer, no war, good jobs).
If the base cannot summon up the righteous anger necessary to do this, the party needs to go the way of all Whigs. The world cannot afford more neoliberalism.
But mostly the world needs the Democrats to STFU.
How many DemParty basers in the field are legacy New Deal types or New Deal revivalists? How many DemParty basers in the field are Pink Pussy Hat Clintonites and ForceyFreeTrade Obamazoids?
Just what is the DemParty base here?
“Just what is the DemParty base here?”
The American/Globalist Oligarchs. (The PMCs all work for them, so, will do as they are told.)
Should we see the beginnings of a Dem led color revolution following a Trump victory, from past experience of being ignored plus the current pro genocide stance I could see those of us sitting the election out also sitting out the color revolution. I recall the Women’s March here in Oakland, pink pussy hat women doing selfies with the police. Who wants to go to war with a group like that.
Not attempting to be humorous. The “resistance” or whatever they might call themselves would have to do better than TDS to get us to join them. Maybe they could bring in Avakian (ok that was an attempt at humor).
I remember Avakian. But I can’t remember if he was a spart or a trot or what.
Never could figure out what he represented. his RCP (revolunary communist party) folks were always around in the Bay handing out flyers and holding up banners. Those two things seemed to be the extent of their activity.
Meh, nah.
– Corporate interests won’t risk their money – much less their lives – supporting anything so risky.
– 0% of local police would support any Color Revolution
– “PMC” will prioritize their salaries over their “class interests” (and rich Liberals will continue to fund the NGOs which employ out-of-power PMCs)
– “Deep State” isn’t really “Democratic”, or “Leftish”; Trump will fire Dem/DEI aparatchiks, but NeoCons don’t care.
– Unions won’t risk wages & benefits to fight for Social causes
– Working-class People of Color won’t risk paychecks for Social causes
So, sure, some SJWs (most likely Trans activists?) will “go postal”, but that won’t inspire anything like the Revolution they imagine; more likely, it will cement the triumph of the Reactionaries.
Also, power within the Democratic Party is concentrated at the State level; those (separate) power-centers won’t risk their State-level power in a Quixotic battle with the Feds. They will hunker down and focus on keeping Planned Parenthood sites (and ‘Gender affirmation’ clinics?) in their States open, maybe adding some feel-good Underground Railroad options for people in Red States.
And anyway, The Right has way more guns, and they actually know how to use them.
> And anyway, The Right has way more guns, and they actually know how to use them.
I thought of that, but left it on the cutting room floor. If the best the right can do is the militias or the Proud Boys, the guns don’t mean all that much, although random shootings are always in the cards, this being America.
Lambert, agree with you about militias, Proud boys (and the Jan 6th people not being street paramilitaries). There are groups on the Left who have no interest in the Dems but have roots in their communities (Black orgs modeled after the Black Panther Party, Brown Berets, AIM who are armed and trained). I alluded to them earlier today. If any incipient movement went past the pink hat stage and brought in what remains of Labor, and if said movement seriously reached out to young people – who knows what might happen? If the Trump regime was too heavy handed in allowing law enforcement to run wild in general – which is likely imho, and the incipient movement found a way to discard the underpinnings of the Democrats…… sigh. well, good and interesting discussion, regardless.
The economy is bad. People are worried about paying the rent or mortgage, getting or keeping their jobs, maybe more that one job, about raising their kids, about their kids schools, about their lives.
I can’t imagine anything the MSM or the Rachels could say that would work up most Americans into a mass movement against the party that had a better economy etc 4 years ago. This sounds like Dem fantasizing to me. I think most Americans have more things to worry about than a new ‘civil war’ which sounds very like another Dem elite vanity project. ymmv.
adding: The Dems still owe me $600.
100% agree. still waiting on my 600 too.
In a typical colour revolution, doesn’t the CIA hire snipers to shoot a few demonstrators and cause a violent riot, so the winning candidate and the police can be blamed? Or was Ukraine the only one like that?