Links 9/12/2016

Ants are destroying your plants by nurturing perfect aphid colonies Ars Technica

In The Battle To Save Frogs, Scientists Fight Fungus With Fungus NPR (furzy)

Beware the bad big wolf: why you need to put your adjectives in the right order The Conversation

India’s First Birds Checklist Brings a Feathered Mirror Up to Our Admiration and Apathy The Wire

Banned! Taking pictures of the Eiffel Tower at night Politico


‘China won’t succeed where US has failed’: future of Beijing’s super collider in question after Nobel laureate’s harsh words SCMP (furzy)

Preserving Chairman Mao: embalming a body to maintain a legacy Guardian


Putin’s gesture will win the Uzbek heart

Russian-Chinese naval drills start in South China Sea More: Tass (furzy)

The Ghost Ships of Hanjin and Why They’re Spoiling Christmas Bloomberg

Revolt of the Elites Jacobin. Account of the September 11, 1973 coup that deposed Salvador Allende.

Six Ways To Fix The Army’s Culture War on the Rocks

From zero to seventy (billion) The Economist (Dan K).

Improv-da The Baffler

Tesla revamps autopilot technology after fatal crash FT. So much for the kitties and bunnies.

US regulators are making Samsung recall millions of phones because they might explode Vox

Conservatives Say Hillary Clinton Can’t Plead Ignorance—but Corporate Criminals Can New Republic. Yet more ways for corporations to evade legal liability.

Cast-Out Police Officers Are Often Hired in Other Cities NYT (Dan K)


No surrender TLS. What happens to journalists in Erdogan’s Turkey.

Turkey removes 24 mayors over PKK links Al Jazeera. And democratically-elected mayors.

Russia may rise to super power status again following US deal over Syria Independent. More Patrick Cockburn reporting from Damascus.

Hopes fade for peaceful Eid in Syria as over 100 killed Al Jazeera

Review: The Religious and the Political in Saudi Arabia The Wire

New Tricks Make ISIS, Once Easily Tracked, a Sophisticated Opponent WSJ

Barbara Lee’s Lone Vote on Sept. 14, 2001, Was as Prescient as it was Brave and Heroic The Intercept. Another Glenn Greenwald piece worth your time.

How building design changed after 9/11 The Conversation

The Missing Women of Pakistan The Wire

Nauru: Australia’s Guantanamo Bay? Al Jazeera

US report warns of imminent Aussie housing collapse Macrobusiness


The Brexit bounce that’s making doom-mongers look foolish The Spectator

What on earth does “Brexit means Brexit” actually mean? New Statesman. That is indeed the question: leave it to a novelist to ask it.

Work permits among Brexit options, home secretary say BBC. More delusional Brexit thinking.

Liam Fox is right: we need to talk about Britain’s trade problem The Spectator

The false promise of a free-trade paradise for Brexit Britain FT. Nick Clegg weighs in on free trade will bring paradise illusions.

Detroit paper uncovers dirty surgical tool problem at city hospitals Columbia Journalism Review

DOJ Proudly Trumpets Its Completely BS 91% FOIA Response Rate Tech Dirt (furzy)

California Just Doubled Down on Fighting Climate Change MIT Technology Review

Erased by False Victory: Obama Hasn’t Stopped DAPL Truthout. Glad to see at least someone’s not been taken in by the smoke and mirrors the federal agencies have tossed up here.

Sea-Level Change Considerations For Civil Works Programs U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (JTM)

Less Than a Month After Historic Floods in Louisiana, We Know Climate Change Played a Role MIT Technology Review


Hillary Clinton’s health just became a real issue in the presidential campaign WaPo. Cillizza walking back his move along folks, there’s nothing here piece of last week.

Clinton scare shakes up the race Politico. The penny finally drops.

Clinton Health Another Landmine for Suddenly Vulnerable Markets Bloomberg. Hold on for the ride folks.

Greasing the Outstretched Palms of the Candidates Truthout

Trump takes aim at Clinton’s lead among women Politico

Questions for the presidential candidates on nuclear terrorism, proliferation, weapons policy, and energy and Six nuclear questions for the next president Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. Just two links out of several featured on this topic in the current issue of the journal.

Putin, IS and military preparedness: Six essential reads The Conversation. What is it with the number 6 in today’s links? Six this, six that, six of the best. 6,6,6.

Antidote du jour:


See yesterday’s Links and Antidote du Jour here.

See yesterday’s Links and Antidote du jour here

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  1. timbers

    No need to rehash Clinton episode but wanted to say I spoke to my brother in law via email about Clinton episode. Told him she’s on Coumadin. This is what he said: “Interesting. I didn’t know she was taking Coumadin. My mother was taking that and died from a stroke side effect -very common with this drug. Hillary may crack before the debates start.” I wonder why does the media not mention Hillary’s on Coumadin when discussing her health? Seems highly relevant. Is everyone suppose read NC comments to learn this? NPR just talked about her health – no mention of Coumadin.

    1. Cocomaan

      It’s npr, what do you expect? Their morning and evening shows are a joke.

      I completely stopped listening to them after how they handled Bernies campaign.

      1. johnnygl

        They were unreal during the primaries. I was yelling at the radio during my commute. Now they’re on full-time trump hate-fest.

        1. Steve C

          Used to have NPR going from wakey until bedtime. Now, I read about roses and meditate. Much more serenity. Now, my agitation comes from NC. And it’s because world affairs are agitating, not because I want to throw a chair at the elitist propaganda coming from the radio.

          1. Bubba_Gump

            Their political coverage is truly awful — horse race analysis cheerleading for HRC, no substantive talk about issues just a constant human interest sideshow anecdotal. The Bernie coverage was a disgrace. I was raised on a steady diet of NPR, and realized the headlines are all the same as when I was a kid: Middle East “violence,” Israeli politics, poor person suffering anecdote, refugee porn.

            I tune in from time to time just to make sure it hasn’t changed. What change there has been seems to be ever more shrill neoliberal pablum spoon-fed with small words as though to eight-graders. They also seem to have exactly the same stories as same day’s NYC — makes one wonder who’s actually disseminating all the talking points.

            1. hemeantwell

              I stopped listening to them after they did a long, sympathetic piece on how Israeli soldiers were traumatized by the injuries they inflicted on Palestinian kids during the first Intifada. The idea that they should suffer from implacable guilt was not not discussed.

      2. timbers

        Yah I know but I also learned from NPR Trump is bad because he likes Putin who keeps invading nations and killing a bunch of folks and gives govt contracts to his friends – unlike good USA. All stated matter of factly by NPR analysts.

        1. EndOfTheWorld

          Yes, “hold on for the ride.” Now even the MSM is split on whether to all of a sudden be skeptical of the stuff Camp Clinton puts out re Hill’s health. If she quits due to ill health, can she keep her campaign contributions?
          She’s got Parkinson’s disease, or at least severe aftershocks from her earlier brain trouble. She’s not gonna get better.

          1. RabidGandhi

            Even Democracy Now used the term “conspiracy theory”. I’m usually a huge fan of DN! but their Election coverage has been sloppy since the conventions.

            1. Benedict@Large

              It’s amazing how everything has to get sloppy around Clinton. People, news papers, news shows, whatever. As soon as they decide to sign on with Camp Clinton, they all have to start making excuses for her. Sloppy excuses. Excuses with a smell of skunk to them.

              And once they give in, it sticks to them. They can no longer be trusted. Whatever you thought of them before is now forever clouded. They are ruined.

              1. Donald

                I don’t know about Democracy Now — haven’t listened lately. But Krugman went from a columnist I respected to idiotic Clinton shill starting this year. His attacks on Sanders and his supporters and his excuse making for Clinton’s Iraq vote totally destroyed his credibility for me. Maybe he is worth reading if he stays far away from the subject of Clinton, but I no longer care enough to find out.

            2. MyLessThanPrimeBeef

              Even Sanders has gone into the Twilight Zone post conventions.

              Whatever they did to him to get him to endorse and campaign for her, they will do more before replacing Hillary with Bernie.

          2. Sarah Connor

            This morning on NPR, Cokie Roberts “went there.” She described the “socco voce” discontent behind the scenes of a very skittish DNC.

            1. NYPaul

              And, all this on top of the constant, daily, weekly, and monthly, never ending, stream of rancid revelations being unearthed regarding her shady public/private financial juggling act. Like, simply running for President isn’t stressful enough.

              Stress, Baby. It’s a killer!!

              1. MyLessThanPrimeBeef

                Maybe this explains the lack of press conferences, even just for one hour.

                To go through a presidential debate – that’d be like enduring eternity.

        1. optimader

          listen online, donate often.

          Want a do it yourself Masters Degree in Music history, or for that matter the History of Radio ( ?

          This is the place.

          Yesterday sampling, The Sounds of Brazil, Victor Parra’s Mombo Express, Wayne Mesmer…. Much of this you can’t even buy,,, literally, toa large extent the station programming is by long term volunteers ( sharing their private vinyl collections. Priceless, hundreds of man/yrs of knowledge deployed for anyone that cares to listen..

          This is one of the reasons I unplugged my (free) cable connection. many years ago.

          1. nobody

            Thanks for that. To mix it up a bit, you might try FIP:


            From the Wikipedia entry:

            The concept behind FIP has scarcely changed since its founding: continuous music interrupted only for traffic updates, occasional announcements about forthcoming events, and a short news broadcast at 10 minutes before the hour, but no advertising.

            FIP’s programming is an eclectic mix of musical genres: chanson, classical, film music, jazz, rock, world music and more, but with careful attention paid to smooth and unobtrusive transition from item to item. FIP is one of the few stations in the world to transmit this type of programming around the clock…

            The station was founded in 1971 by Jean Garetto and Pierre Codou, both week-end presenters at France Inter. It was broadcast from Paris on 514 m (585 kHz) medium wave, hence its original name of France Inter Paris 514. It was noted for its particular style of programming and its hosts’ sugary tone of voice as they described traffic problems with humour and irony.

            The playlist over the last day included “Free Money” by Patti Smith, “Heaven” by Depeche Mode, “Johnny B Goode” by Peter Tosh, “Swingin Down The Lane” by Frank Sinatra, “Funky Jibaro” by Yomo Toro, “Come Near Me” by Massive Attack, “Johnny” by Eartha Kitt, “En Leger Differe” by Mickey 3d, “Les Amants De Coeur” by Jacques Brel, “Novocaine For The Soul” by Eels, “In The Kingdom” by Mazzy Star, “You Gotta Move” by Sam Cooke, “Timbuktu Fasso” by Fatoumata Diawara, a bit from “Turandot,” “Kiss Of The Bufo Alvarius” by Dengue Fever, “Lilly’s Theme” by Nick Cave (from the soundtrack for “Ghosts… of the Civil Dead”), “Can’t Stop This Feeling I Got” by Prince, “Tezeta” by Mahmoud Ahmed, “Fly Like An Eagle” by The Steve Miller Band, “Off The Grid” by Beastie Boys, “Lauren” by the Ray Lema Quintet…

            Respirez, vous êtes sur FIP!

            1. Optimader

              Thanks for that tip!
              I decommissioned my main audio kit last october(!?! Thats a different story, so my streaming capability has been reduced to just my phone as a line input to the garage stereo. That said i think (FIP) is one of my presets on the Slimserver.
              There are several excellent Paris based stations and no doubt this is one of them. When i have my rig back up i’ll post a few more streaming links if you lurk here.

              Another station that does a good job and deserves a call-out is KCRW in santa monica,CA

              If you have time this evening
              Jazz Night in America hosted by Christian McBride, I’ve met him a couple times when he’s been playing with the Five Peace Band.

              IMO one of the best acoustic bass players alive, and a very historically knowledgable and good person.

              Jazz Night in America
              7:00 CST ( in abt 1hr 45min )

      3. diptherio

        I stopped listening after Bush, Jr. was elected and immediately cut-off aid to foreign family planning orgs that mentioned mentioned abortion as an option to their patients. Ol’ Cokie assured NPR listeners it was no big thing, nothing to see here, move along people. I tore the radio out of the dash and threw it out the window…

      4. neo-realist

        I gave up on NPR when I got sick and tired of Cokie Roberts condescending republican talking points. It is very much a megaphone for center right elites.

        I’ve read that people who work there say that if they did not do the center right slant, they would lose a vast majority of their big donor funding.

        1. Optimader

          They should loose those donors, it would be a cleansing act that might result In more creative and honest programming.

          I only listen to local publuc radio and tune away if there is NPR news content.

          Chicago Public Radio (WBEZ) is an exception on local public radio. It is awful and I will not listen to it, their programming has devolved to whining elitist **** talk radio. It is insufferable.

    2. Robert Hahl

      I asked a friend of age 86 who has been taking coumadin for 25 years, ever since a stroke, why he takes that drug instead of aspirin or perhaps nothing. He said doctors prefer coumadin to aspirin because it is easier to determine if the dose is correct, and to take nothing is to invite another stroke.

      1. Steve C

        Aspirin is almost like taking your vitamins. It’s just a good idea for people with cardio concerns. You take Coumadin if you have real clotting risks. I was on it after an A. fib episode. It’s a pain. They have to monitor your blood levels weekly and you can’t eat leafy greens because the vitamin K interferes with the Coumadin. The generic is warfarin, which they use to kill rats.

        1. Anne

          My understanding is that Coumadin requires fairly frequent monitoring, that it can be hard to get the dosage just right, and both blood levels and effectiveness can be affected by the patient’s diet, by other medications, etc.

          My real issue with this whole event is that, had Clinton not collapsed, we wouldn’t know anything about the alleged pneumonia. It’s the same old story: she does what she wants until events conspire to force her to make public whatever it was she wanted to remain private. And even then, she continues to hold close as much information as possible for as long as possible, before being more or less forced to get it all out there.

          Problem is, because this is her pattern, no one’s ever sure that what they are being told is all of it, that she isn’t still holding something back.

          This is why she’s facing so many questions about her health – and everything else she’s doled out piecemeal.

          The Clinton supporters are busy telling us that her pushing ahead even though she had pneumonia means she’s a total badass, that this proves how presidential she’s already being. They are busy reminding us of Bush 41 vomiting during a Japanese state dinner, of Reagan’s Alzheimer’s being hidden, and so on. Another example of “everyone does it,” so we just need to move on – it’s over.

          Well, I know she, and her loyal supporters would like it to be over, but the reality is that the microscope she’s under just went to a higher magnification level, and she has no one to blame but herself.

          1. timbers

            Yes to this:

            September 12, 2016 at 9:57 am

            My real issue with this whole event is that, had Clinton not collapsed, we wouldn’t know anything about the alleged pneumonia. It’s the same old story: she does what she wants until events conspire to force her to make public whatever it was she wanted to remain private. And even then, she continues to hold close as much information as possible for as long as possible, before being more or less forced to get it all out there.

            Also, not sure I believe the pneumonia story. Wouldn’t put it past them to fabricate that.

            How is taking about health issues w/o talking about her concussion, blood clots, and rat poison meds …. an honest talk about her health?

            1. Barmitt O'Bamney

              It’s probably a lot worse than a case of walking pneumonia.
              The video below was posted to yootoobs three days before Hillary Clinton collapsed into her own footprint like a world tower of trade:
              (try to set aside the moronic wingnut host’s editorializing, just listen to the doc testify)
              It should be noted that A) Parkinson’s Disease has several stages. Hillary appears to be ten years into the progression at least and somewhere in the disease’s middle stages. Also, B) the medication used to treat Parkinson’s has its own serious side motor effects, which she seems to exhibit. And finally C, not only does Parkinson’s debilitate its victim randomly and episodically, and ultimately in its latter stages will make keeping up a daily schedule of activities impossible, it also is typically accompanied by non-motor symptoms of delusions and hard mood swings: eg, anxiety/depression and rage. If Hillary Clinton has Parkinson’s -or some other neurological impairment leading to her frequent “spells” and falls- the Democratic Party should ask her to step aside and allow someone in better health to run. Naturally being Hillary Clinton she would hotly refuse and retreat to her bunker with Eva Braun to lean on, but the certain ferocity of her reaction doesn’t relieve the party leadership of this responsibility. I long ago abandoned any hope for that party, but in an alternate universe where they had not become mobbed-up and corrupt to the core, Clinton would get a public call from party elders now to do the right thing for the country and endorse a substitute candidate.

              1. FromColdMountain

                Having lived with someone who had Parkinson’s, and after looking closely at the video of her on 9/11, I think she has Parkinson’s.

                As they move her away from that post she was leaning against, her arms stay rigid behind her back. My friend used to call this “offing”, as in on or off, which was different from his freezing of gait, and happened to him when he was under stress.

                Just too many things, the coughing, the blue sunglasses, the falling, the coughing, even the pneumonia could be caused by difficulty swallowing.

                It could be Vascular Parkinsonism. I just wish she would be strong enough to admit she is weak.

                1. ohmyheck

                  Ah, thanks for explaining why her arms were like that behind her back. At first I thought she was handcuffed. In my dreams….

              2. Yves Smith

                I’m leery of this sort of thing in general (diagnosis when you haven’t seen the patient or have their medical records is pretty dodgy) and in particular (this MD is an anesthesiologist, not a neurologist).

                Having said that, the bit about coughing resulting from Parkinsons (difficulties in swallowing) and long-term L-dopa side effects was interesting. But the fact that Parkinsons can produce coughing episodes is a hell of a long way from saying that her coughing resulted from that. If you know anyone with allergies or pulmonary issues, all sorts of things can produce frequent coughing bouts.

                1. RabidGandhi

                  Watch period movies. Anyone who coughs dies of consumption within 20 minutes.

                  (some learnéd men of medicine might take this to mean we should bleed HRC with leeches forthwith)

                  1. hemeantwell

                    All connoisseurs of consumptive coughing should check out Peter Watkins’ “Edvard Munch.” You’ll have trouble casually clearing your throat for a week or so.

                2. Roger Bigod

                  I’m not impressed with the physician who put forward the Parkinson’s diagnosis. He’s a politically interested retired anesthesiologist. I’ve watched two vids of his presentation, of which the better was an interview. He’s off base in stating on both presentations that LevoDOPA is the “only” drug treatment for Parkinson’s. A cursory glance at the Wikipedia article shows that there are 3 or 4 _groups_ of drugs for the disease, with different mechanisms of action. I have a friend who was diagnosed a few months ago and his neurologist has adjusted doses of multiple drugs to keep his tremor in abeyance all day. This is standard everyday practice.

                  In looking at the clips, the only one that bothered me was the head-bobbing when 3 people asked questions at the same time. But there could be several explanations.

                  If it’s Parkinson’s, she hasn’t shown clear signs in years of public exposure. She’d have gotten meticulous adjustments of drugs and dosages to avoid showing any tremor or rigidity. And her personal physician would have to be in on it. There would be multiple visits to neurologists’ offices.

                  The neurons that are injured and later killled by the disease discharge a neurotransmatter called “dopamine” at synapses. L-DOPA is a precursor and supplying it as a drug makes it easier for the neurons to deliver an effective amount at synapses. But after a few years the drugs fails intermittently, the troublesome “on-off” phenomenon. For that reason, neurologists give other drugs thought to be less prone to this and to prolong the effectiveness of L-DOPA. Her lapses in public may be a motor effect of on-off.

                  As academic internists like to say on teaching rounds, “you can’t rule it out”. But a lot of improbable things would have to line up to produce what we’ve seen.

              3. Jess

                “Naturally being Hillary Clinton she would hotly refuse and retreat to her bunker with Eva Braun to lean on.”

                Barmitt for the win!

              4. m

                What is concerning is that after the DVT Hillary would have been placed on an anticoagulant, especially with all those plane trips. Then there is that fall she had last year. If she were on Coumadin at that time with a fall & head trauma can cause a bleed. Also MDs are nervous about putting someone on a blood thinner that is at risk for frequent falls. This whole situation is crazy. Feel bad, don’t like her, adios-time to take all that foundation money and retire.

            2. crittermom

              Since it now seems that the only way we can actually get any truth is through hackers, why hasn’t anyone hacked her medical records? Those are all kept on computers nowadays, as well.
              Hello, hackers?

              1. oho

                ” Those are all kept on computers nowadays, as well.”

                I’d bet that Clinton shopped around until she found a doctor willing to work with a minimal paper trail and certainly zero electronic trail.

              2. hunkerdown

                Not all. Last year one local physician — I forget whether PM&R or GP — proudly boasted on his sign board, “No electronic medical records!” His office didn’t seem especially concierge.

            3. Brian

              It isn’t logical to believe a sudden press release used as a distraction. With past episodes of fainting, falling, concussion and ongoing treatment, this qualifier is put out to run up the flagpole. Please note the moment the handlers suddenly jump to surround and hide the candidate from the cameras. Daily Mail even goes as far as to say the candidate was “thrown into the seat like a side of beef” (paraphrasing) If this is so, that isn’t a response for someone fainting as much as perhaps the attempt to hide symptoms from observers. Was that doctor EpiPen that opened the door to the van?
              Was this an attempt to divert attention from the real issue?
              As a great philospher once said; “Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat”

            4. apber

              So she has what could be very contagious? And she rests at Chelsea’s home and plays with the kids? Anyone want some real cheap swamp land in the Everglades?

              1. DorothyT

                Hillary could have an antibiotic-resistant ‘superbug.’ And that is contagious. I wonder if they went through the tests they should have before prescribing antibiotics. (I’ve written this up ad nauseaum here.)

                I would see an infectious disease specialist. And google yourself silly learning about this.

                Note: a healthy immune system is your best defense. Children, seniors, those with compromised immune systems most at risk. As we know, antibiotics depress our natural immune system, killing good and bad bacteria. If you have a ‘superbug’ you need to be very careful how you affect your own immune system.

                #1 Test if it’s bacterial, viral, or fungal. Blood tests don’t always tell. Should have a sputum test.

                #2 If it’s bacterial or fungal, test to identify the type of bacteria or fungus.

                #3 Test that strain against antibiotics or antifungals to see what might be effective before throwing any random antibiotic or antifungal at it. You could become much sicker.

                Again, it is contagious. I sadly speak from experience.

                Here’s a helpful article, a good place to start.

              2. OpenThePodBayDoorsHAL

                This is the tell, if she actually had pneumonia they would not just have hustled her off to Chelsea’s place, my guess is at Chelsea’s they could give her a quick shot of amphetamines so we could then get the “look, the candidate can actually walk unaided!” photo op when she emerged.
                So that’s how low we’ve sunk, we’re supposed to vote for the elderly, sickly, serial war criminal, pathological liar old lady because she can actually walk. Oh, and “because she’s a woman”. (So we got the last 8 years of disaster because of the candidate’s dermis, and we”ll get the next 4 years of disaster because of the candidate’s pubis).

                1. Daryl

                  If “can actually walk” is the main qualification for president, I can think of a lot of people who meet that criteria that I’d rather have than Hillary.

          2. vidimi

            first it’s nothing, there are no health issues. then there are health issues, but it’s nothing – everyone gets sick on a grueling campaign – and it’s even a testament to her strength!

        2. JTMcPhee

          My wife has a mechanical heart valve that requires Coumadin to forestall clotting around the valve with its potential badness. She has been on the medication for 15 years, and it is a lifetime med. She is a retired nurse who ran coagulation clinics in cardiologists’ offices and knows pretty much all there is about the drug, good and bad.

          The bit about not eating greens is wrong for most people. The trick, as with so many things, is constancy and moderation. Eat your greens, they are good for you, just eat about the same amount of Vitamin K-bearing veggies every week. Her job was helping people maintain consistent “blood thinness,” measured like blood sugar with a finger stick and test that’s similar to what diabetics do — to control the “international normalized ratio” or rate at which part of the complex “clotting cascade” occurs. Coumadin’s positive medical value was discovered long before its use as a rat poison was “developed.”

          My wife is “trusted” by her docs to monitor her INR at home using a “Coagucheck” that is the same kind of device so widely used for glucose monitoring and control by individuals at home. The Medical Industrialists who sell Coumadin and its generic, and the doctors who “bleed” patients by performing “wallet biopsies” on patients by requiring frequent “Coumadin clinic” visits and who need the med (pretty necessary for those with certain conditions like mechanical mitral valves, though aspirin works for many and the replacement drugs that the manufacturers peddling them say are “safer” and don’t require monitoring, though the tort lawyers are inviting people with bad results to call in for “compensation”) don’t want billable tests to be done by people at home (in part because of “liability issues” because errors controlling INR can quickly get deadly, and the response to a change in dose is delayed so it’s easy to get out of sync).

          1. Randy

            Here is what is different. Politicos, high level government officials, etc. all travel in identical black SUVs, more than one to a convoy so presumably the attacker doesn’t which one hides the “target”.

            They picked Hillary up in a van which looks like a small ambulance painted black. A liittle different if not a little weird.

    3. jgordon

      I’d just like to point out how annoying it is that the media stenographers on many sites today are slavishly repeating the Hillary campaign’s pneumonia story without a single speck of actually checking, either through logic or investigation, whether any of it makes sense. Though admittedly there is a tiny bit doubt starting to creep through the media narrative; maybe they’re thinking that this is the fig leaf they need to feel like they still have credibility–which is just them fooling themselves.

      Since stuff coming from the mainstream media is provably guaranteed to be just some sht they made up, or passing along some sht someone else made up without questioning it, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with just ignoring the msm and believing whatever you feel like believing from the internet; unlike with the msm there is at least a decent chance that that stuff might be true.

      1. grayslad

        The media stenographers are also too young to ask one of the most basic questions: Why didn’t Hillary receive the pneumonia vaccine when she turned 65 and the pneumonia booster vaccine a year later? Prior to turning 65, Medicare sends you a booklet explaining all about coverage, all the free tests and vaccines available, and other services that are covered in your Welcome to Medicare doctor’s appointment. I don’t know a single doctor treating a senior who isn’t religious about making sure that in your first year of Medicare coverage you receive all the vaccines Medicare recommends–and one of those vaccines is the pneumonia vaccine. The booster vaccine became available a couple of years ago, and my doctor insisted I receive it before leaving her office, saying that tests had shown the booster made the likelihood of getting pneumonia almost negligible.

        So did Hillary receive her pneumonia vaccine or is this another case of Hillary’s bad judgment in not receiving the vaccine? Or, was the pneumonia story given as a quick and plausible reason (since everyone noticed her massive coughing fits at an earlier moment), when the actual health problem may be something more serious. As someone who had pneumonia three times as a young woman, including “walking” pneumonia, I find Hillary’s physical collapse before entering the van a much more extreme symptom than anything I ever experienced with pneumonia.


        1. Jim Haygood

          Why would a demi-billionaire like Hillary be on Medicare, which despite its ubiquity is not accepted by some 30 percent of medical practices?

          Although she may be signed up for Medicare, concierge medicine is as standard in her 0.1-percenter income bracket as private jet travel.

        2. Anne

          The pneumonia vaccine does not guarantee that one will not ever get pneumonia, anymore than getting a flu shot guarantees that one won’t ever get the flu.

          I’m not entirely convinced she has or had pneumonia, though; I think the pneumonia diagnosis could be a convenient way to explain the increasingly noticeable problem she’s had with coughing.

          At the same time, if she’s run down, is suffering with seasonal allergies, she very well could have developed pneumonia secondary to a sinus infection, which could be secondary to the congestion from allergies.

          I had pneumonia when I was 17 – I’d had a bad cold that went into my sinuses and next thing, I had pneumonia – the “walking” kind. It took a lot out of me, I remember – I was just wiped out. Now, maybe Hillary is some kind of superwoman, or maybe she’s just really good at faking feeling good, but something just doesn’t add up for me.

          The thing is, I’ve said that same thing about pretty much every questionable thing Hillary’s been involved in – and I end up saying it because I never, ever, have the feeling that she’s being completely open and honest about anything.

          So, while she and her minions and her adoring devotees (her basket of adorables?) may be increasingly ticked off at what they see as delusional, manufactured speculations about Clinton’s health, she really needs to understand that this is a bed she made, over many years of never feeling she had any duty or responsibility to be transparent in her actions and decisions, and now she’s just going to have to lie in it.

          The clock is ticking and soon we’re going to be at the point of no return; if she thinks people have a negative opinion of her now, that opinion is going straight to the bowels of hell if she ends up throwing the election into utter chaos by failing to run out the clock on this and giving the election to Trump by default.

              1. Optimader

                Let me reread, because sometime my typing is crappy…
                Ok, good. I said pneumonia can be a hallmark of congestive heart failure.

                So Mike, when you’re done sighing, and you gave plenty to sigh about if you are a HRC supporter, as a little medical/history study, look up what Gerry Ford succumbed to.

            1. Vatch

              People with congestive heart failure sometimes have swollen ankles. Do any of the recent videos provide any indication of this?

        3. Yves Smith

          Echoing Anne, the efficacy of that vaccine is not that great. No reason to think she didn’t have the vaccination. And that’s before you get to the fact that whether she has pneumonia is in question. If she really does, at her age, she ought to have a bare minimum of a week or two of bed rest. If she’s back in service any time soon, hard to believe that diagnosis.

        4. Bob

          The pneumonia vaccines only cover certain strains of the bacterium Streptococcus pneumoniae. They do not cover mycoplasma or viral pneumonias. So whether she received the vaccine or not, she could develop pneumonia.
          I am 65 and have received one of the vaccines mentioned in the article. I will received the second in a few months when I am eligible. But they won’t protect me from many causes of pneumonia. They are nonetheless worthwhile.
          I am also a retired physician.

          1. grayslady

            Just so. Hillary is said to be taking an antibiotic, which means the alleged pneumonia is a bacterial variety–the kind the vaccine is supposed to protect against. My first bout with pneumonia was the viral kind, and I was placed in the isolation ward of the hospital for a week. I don’t recall receiving any medicines, no iv drips etc. for the viral. Rigorously enforced bed rest was the treatment. I don’t recall whether I received medication for the “walking” pneumonia, but I was told only one half day at work for six weeks. When I got home from work, I was to get into bed and rest. Rest, rest, and more rest seems to be a major component of overcoming pneumonia.

          2. optimader

            Bob, I applaud your not feeling compelled to shove an honorific in your screen name.
            You should comment on medical speculation more often, it’s your discipline..

        5. eureka

          From my understanding, the vaccine protects against only some strains pneumonia. She may have received the vaccine, but got infected with a different type of bacteria or virus.

      2. Sammy Maudlin

        Incredible. I almost never watch the local news, but I caught the ten second blurb one local station had on the presumptive President’s “medical episode.”

        The tagline was that HRC was going to take a couple days off to recover from pneumonia. No question that this was an accurate description of the condition at hand. Meanwhile, a series of images were shown of her coughing in various locales at different times. The hypnotic suggestion being that all of these episodes were attributable to her recent “diagnosis.”

        However, most of these coughing episodes occurred before she was “diagnosed.” It’s simply stunning how far the MSM is going to maintain the “nothing to see here” vibe.

    4. bdy

      To be fair, the president doesn’t actually have to be healthy. See Reagan term 2. As long as she can be made to smile and wave things will move forward exactly as planned.

      1. Oregoncharles

        Aah, yes. Mrs. Wilson ran the country, with the connivance of advisers, for years, because he was incapacitated and they didn’t want to tell the country – or put the VP in charge, apparently.

        This might be more difficult in the TV age, but as you say, Reagan’s handlers pulled it off. Not that he was ever really running the country. Makes you wonder who was.

      2. optimader

        I see a lot of one mistake justifying another here..

        The inverse of that is why shouldn’t the POTUS be in good health, at least from the get go?
        Father, why shouldn’t the candidates health condition be transparent in an election?? Itonly makes sense to me.

        1. Arizona Slim

          Say what you will about George W. Bush, he was quite healthy while he was the President. Same is true of Obama.

      3. Katharine

        Even if she can’t, there are precedents. Four presidents died in office of natural causes: Harrison, Taylor, Harding, and Roosevelt. Four others were assassinated. The country kept going every time.

        And frankly, after the huge push to get her the nomination, I don’t see the DNC replacing her unless she becomes wholly incapacitated, which still seems unlikely.

      4. hunkerdown

        FDR and Wilson, too. Smiling and waving is exactly what royalty does, so now that the Presidency is just that, why not.

      5. heresy101

        Everyone is missing what is really going on. She is trying for an Oscar!

        There’s a new movie in the works. It’s called “Weekend At Hillary’s”. It’s about this woman, a pathological LIAR and psychopath, running for President who drops dead 60-some days before Election Day. So, her handlers embalm her, put sunglasses on her, fix up her makeup and smear lipstick on her.
        They haul her dead carcass around to campaign appearances everywhere until Election Day with a big guy on either side of her to make it look like she can walk. She never gives press conferences or answers questions but she jerkily waves at everyone like a mad puppet. It’s gonna be a Yuuge hit, really, really Yuuge.

        And… Conspiracy Theory becomes Conspiracy FACT…

        1. Jim Haygood

          ILL-LIAR-y has stumbled [literally] into The Last Wheeze.

          Her ill-starred name proved to be destiny. And it had nothing to do with Sir Edmund Hillary, as she once casually confabulated. (We exclude the possibility of joking, as Hillary does not “get” Earth humor.)

          It’s the end of her world as we know it. And I feel fine.

    5. Fighting Bob

      And I have a relative who has been on Coumadin for fifteen years.
      He’s in his sixties and he just returned from a backbacking trip in Peru.
      Hale and hearty.

      For god’s sake people,
      argue Clinton’s policies.
      This “diagnosing at a distance” is nuts.

      She might have blood clots, she might have a stroke, a brain tumor, a heart condition, chronic fatigue syndrome, low blood pressure,
      (I have that. I have stood up and passed out plenty of times.)
      On and on the diagnosing goes.

      This Internet Marcus Welby stuff is bonkers.

      1. Yves Smith

        Sorry, you must not know many people over 50. Coumadin is not prescribed casually because it is difficult to manage the dosage. It takes very frequent monitoring (see this comment above). Your relative either had doctors who weren’t giving proper oversight and got away with it or didn’t bore you with the details of what it took to manage it. Stress plays a big role in management, so someone like Hillary would require vigilant supervision of her dosage.

        1. Fighting Bob

          I love your site.
          It is superb.
          So please understand that this response to your comment above isn’t meant to be insulting or rude.
          But again, it shows how easy it is to make assumptions.
          “You must not know many people over fifty.”
          Yves, I’m 61.

      2. Pat

        What you think this election is about policies? Not bloody likely. That ship sailed when the major parties determined their nominees. They nominated the least liked, least trusted people to ever run for President since they started looking at those things. Both of them are running on the “OMG my opponent is despicable!!!” platform. And that lack of trust thing is pretty accurate because both of them lie like rugs. As for the policies themselves, well that is difficult because they both play both sides on multiple subjects.

        Oh, I’ll argue what I think Clinton’s policies are, but her supporters will tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about even though I can quote her. Why, because similar to Obama, the hope is strong and misguided about her among her supporters. With less evidence I can say the same thing about Trump.

        But Clinton having health problems far beyond allergies or even pneumonia is no longer just conspiracy theory speculation, it is patently obvious. We just cannot trust the parties involved to tell us the truth about what her health issues are. If we could there would be no need for internet Marcus Welby speculation.

        1. OpenThePodBayDoorsHAL

          Policies? Pay no attention to what emerges from the candidates mouths, as Obama said in 2008 “Hilary will say anything, and change nothing”, she can be at a rally and yell “I’m fighting for you!” and 15 minutes later she is meeting with a Wall St CEO on new ways to rip people off. I’m not saying her opponent is any better

      3. Anne

        If you want to blame anyone for all this armchair medical discussion, look no further than Ms. Clinton and/or whichever member of her staff decided to use The Clinton Rules for Obfuscation and Avoidance as a way to address what was clearly some kind of medical event.

        Given that she wasn’t whisked away in an ambulance, and didn’t spend any time in an emergency room, whatever it was that happened must not have been entirely unanticipated or unusual – it may just be that she had the great misfortune of exhibiting these symptoms in public and not in the privacy of her own home.

        Whatever this is or was, it is how she chose to handle it that has led to all this discussion.

        But let’s recap, shall we? First, she was constructively absent from the campaign trail for the entire month of August. She did few events and not as much traveling. She also was not spending any time with the media, giving no pressers for months. Criticism mounted, so – wonder of wonders – when she got her spiffy new plane, the invites went out to the media to join her on the plane, and she held her first presser in months just this past Thursday.

        She looked fine. Her color was good, she looked rested. The next night, she did a high-dollar fundraiser hosted by Barbra Streisand. Again, she looked and sounded fine. Yet, it was that day that her physician says she was diagnosed with pneumonia and given antibiotics.

        Then, on Sunday, with temps in the low 80’s and low humidity, she falls ill. She looked okay walking to her car, but she leaned on the post for support and then appeared to collapse getting into the van. Did she lose her footing on the curb?

        So, first we heard she wasn’t feeling well. Then we heard she was overheated and dehydrated. Some hours later, we were told of the pneumonia diagnosis, and then – like a miracle – she comes walking out of her daughter’s apartment building looking quite chipper. Did she get IV fluids? Who knows?

        She sustained a serious concussion in 2012, when she fainted as a complication of a stomach virus that caused her to be dehydrated. The concussion gave her double vision, for which she wore special lenses for a time. She was not allowed to fly. A follow up visit to the doctor revealed that she had a blood clot in a vein between her brain and her skull so she was put on blood thinners. Her husband says it took every bit of six months for her to recover from the concussion.

        She’s also had DVTs in her legs, and has an underactive thyroid for which I presume she takes medication.

        Could she be having periodic bouts of vertigo as a result of the concussion? Other effects that linger, or pop up from time to time? Doesn’t seem unreasonable, but here’s the thing: we are never going to know if that’s the case, because unlike pneumonia for which you can take an antibiotic and be done with, ongoing – no matter how infrequent – post-concussion symptoms will call into question her mental abilities, which would be the death knell for her candidacy.

        So, she and her people spoon feed us one somewhat-plausible explanation after another, apparently in the hope they will hit on one that makes people stop asking questions about it – but the problem is that this method just adds to the sense people have that she’s still hiding something and so the speculation goes on.

        This is how the Clintons – both of them – handle everything, and it’s exactly why Hillary finds herself the topic of conversation and speculation everywhere.

        1. OpenThePodBayDoorsHAL

          Absolutely nailed it, this is not a vast right-wing tinfoil hat business, this is very simple: given the complete runaround on this issue, why should we trust anything that the candidate and her surrogates say?

      4. skeeter

        Focus on the candidate’s health is always appropriate. Particularly so when the ability of the candidate to serve out their term is a legitimate question.

        It is the height of arrogance for a candidate to accept the nomination without the full expectation that they will be ready to serve the full term at stake. For a candidate to attempt to proceed through concealment of substantive health issues is an expression of complete unaccountability.

        It’s not the candidate’s prerogative to decide upon what information the voters will make their choice.

      5. robnume

        If Hillary had been more honest about her physical condition, folks wouldn’t be stooping to armchair diagnoses, which is normal human behavior for those to whom the truth has not been forthcoming.

    6. afisher

      Coumadin was prescribed more than a year ago – which is the average amount of time a person takes that drug for treatment of a one-time blood clot. You may be correct….but you also may be very wrong.

      1. Bob

        Not a one-time diagnosis. She apparently has had a deep venous thrombosis and more recently cavernous sinus thrombosis. I suspect because of this (two discrete episodes) a decision has been made for chronic continuing use of coumadin. Like all medications, a decision is made as to whether the benefits of treatment using that medication outweigh the projected risks of the medication. Properly managed, the risks are fairly small. But the key is proper management, which may be difficult given the demands of the position as POTUS.

      1. Anne

        How many more? As many as it takes, one dollop at a time, until she hits the sweet spot where the questions stop.

        It was always destined to take the same path as the e-mails and every other questionable thing Clinton’s been associated with – that’s how they roll!

        What continues to boggle my mind is why she doesn’t seem to understand that THIS is why such a significant segment of the electorate doesn’t trust her; it’s so obvious, and yet she continues to employ this strategy and it could cost her the election.

        Assuming she is healthy enough to participate in the first debate, it should be a doozy.

        1. Optimader

          “HRC has pneumonia and is responding to therapy” that was the press release for frmr prez Ford right before he croaked from CHF due in part from complications resulting from pneumonia ( the reason he was hospitalized)

          Clinton is at the age where chronic health conditions can motor you into the weeds quickly.

          “Release more” vs “release” Everything w/ her is legally parsed to death, no pun intended.

          1. Anne

            At this point, Clinton would have as much success convincing the public that she’s released all the medical records that are relevant to her run for president as she would convincing us that she was part of a grand experiment whereby an entire medical team has been shrunk to Fantastic Voyage size, and injected into her bloodstream so that she can be under constant care.

            The Fantastic Voyage scenario might actually be more believable.

            In other words, it’s just one more thing that doesn’t really matter because only those in her basket of adorables believe anything she says – and they believe everything, no matter how the story shifts and changes.

        2. NYPaul

          If she became spastic, and collapsed (unexpectedly) just trying to get into an SUV, what kind of risk is she going to be under during the first debate? The stress of being thrust into the biggest “fishbowl” imaginable ( largest TV audience ever being predicted) with all the “marbles” on the table would freak out the healthiest human alive. Everyone is going to be watching for any slight, “unnatural,” twitch, or, movement for the whole episode.

          What drama! I wouldn’t be surprised if some pretext is found to nix the debate. The risk for her is just too great, IMO, of course.

      2. Benedict@Large

        Each time she releases medical records, it gives her chorus another chance to sing (in harmony) that she has clearly demonstrated that she is healthy. After a few of these, the corporate press will feign impatience, and any talk about Hillary’s health will be cast aside as coming from conspiracy theorists. No one will ever question why the issue wasn’t resolved up front with a full disclosure.

        All of this is fine (I guess) except if she is hiding Parkinson’s, which is completely debilitating as far as the Presidency is concerned.

    7. fresno dan

      The question really is: Is a vote for Clinton a vote for Tim Kaine???

      Now, the REALLY cynical might conjecture that Clintoon is thinking the BEST meme to save the election for herself is that she spins it that she pulls a William Henry Harrison – don’t worry about voting for Clintoon!!! I’ll only be president for 30 or so days!
      Hey, your not really voting for me
      Your really voting for Kaine!

      Only decades later is the Clinton tomb excavated and it is revealed that she was a Disney animatronic programmed by Goldman Sachs – those “speeches” were really charades to allow the cables to be plugged in so the updated software could be downloaded…

      If the media is in the pocket of the Clintons, why now are we finding out about her “illness” ….hmmmmm….

      1. fresno dan

        AND, Trump could retaliate. “I could drop dead at any moment – A vote for Trump is a vote for Pence!!!”

      2. OpenThePodBayDoorsHAL

        My thought exactly, that and things like the Cilizza walk-back, Damage Control Scenario 11-F would be that If they are going to parachute somebody else in they better do it quick-smart. I’d think it would be Biden, and he’d probably win: “New and improved, now you get all the Obama/Clinton stuff you thought was good, but without all of the Hilary negatives. And Hilary will head up the special new Department of Women’s Affairs from her hospital bed”.

    8. timbers

      “Dilbert” on Clinton episode:

      The Race for President is (Probably) Over

      “If you are following breaking news, Hillary Clinton abruptly left the 9-11 memorial today because she was reportedly “overheated.” Her campaign says she is fine now.

      You probably wonder if the “overheated” explanation is true – and a non-issue as reported – or an indication of a larger medical condition. I’m blogging to tell you it doesn’t matter. The result is the same.

      Here’s why.

      If humans were rational creatures, the time and place of Clinton’s “overheating” wouldn’t matter at all. But when it comes to American psychology, there is no more powerful symbol of terrorism and fear than 9-11 . When a would-be Commander-in-Chief withers – literally – in front of our most emotional reminder of an attack on the homeland, we feel unsafe. And safety is our first priority.

      Hillary Clinton just became unelectable.

      The mainstream media might not interpret today’s events as a big deal. After all, it was only a little episode of overheating. And they will continue covering the play-by-play action until election day. But unless Trump actually does shoot someone on 5th Avenue, he’s running unopposed.”

    9. uncle tungsten

      Teh Guardian is running reports and every accompanying image is of some other event with Killary stepping, smiling, unassisted into a car. What a disgrace that shill sheet is.

  2. Another Anon

    “What is it with the number 6 in today’s links? Six this, six that, six of the best. 6,6,6.”
    Must be because “The Prisoner” is being broadcast again.

    1. Yves Smith

      Did you do time at McKinsey? They recommended odd number of points under headers, like 3 or 5, meaning logic and facts should be subordinate to style. No explanation as to why…

      1. Benedict@Large

        My rule of thumb was to use a prime number. Perhaps a coincidence, but I never lost an argument when I placed a prime number in some central role, even if I had to make stuff up to do so. People are very uncomfortable around prime numbers, it seems.

        1. MyLessThanPrimeBeef

          I am curious why people would be uncomfortable around numbers like 2 or 3 or 5.

          Three is a crowd, so I can see that.

          But 2?

    2. fresno dan

      Another Anon
      September 12, 2016 at 7:53 am

      Isn’t it the mark of the beast?
      No, not Clinton – the other one…

      1. polecat

        mark of the beast ?? …. uhmm …. it’s not Satan …. nor is it Cthulhu …. so it must be … Bubba … right??

  3. Expat

    Re: EU Copyrights
    Perhaps I should sue the Eiffel management company, the city of Paris, the light “artist” and the French government for creating an eyesore, light pollution and damaging the environment.
    I used to think it was just the bankers and lawyers we needed to quietly euthanize. Now I realize it’s pretty much all of us.

  4. Watt4Bob

    The story of Chile’s popular, and democratic rejection of government by oligarchs is today’s must-read, and provides unsettling similarities to current events, most strikingly in my estimation, recently in Venezuela.

    The Popular Unity government enjoyed promising successes during its first year in power. Domestic production spiked in 1971, leading to a GDP growth rate of almost 9 percent. Unemployment fell from 7 percent to below 3 percent, and wages increased dramatically, particularly for the lowest earners. Allende’s land reform program — along with intensified popular attacks on large, unproductive landholdings — led to near record harvests and a new abundance of food for the poor.

    Of course no good deed goes unpunished by oligarchs.

    On the other hand, Chilean elites also pursued a more top-down strategy in their effort to bring the economy to its knees. Objecting to government-mandated price controls and export restrictions, powerful business interests took to hoarding consumer essentials, secretly warehousing enormous quantities of basic goods only to let them spoil as avoidable food shortages rocked the nation.

    And of course there’s the USA’s never-ending efforts to spread peace and democracy.

    Meanwhile, in Washington, President Nixon was making good on his promise to “make Chile’s economy scream.” He called for an end to all US assistance to the Allende government, and instructed US officials to use their “predominant position in international financial institutions to dry up the flow” of international credit to Chile.

    And finally a sobering reminder, that in the end, if they can’t beat you at the polls, they are not above putting and end to you altogether.

    Deeply committed to maintaining the legality of the revolutionary process, the UP government sought to slow the pace of radical democratic reforms at the grassroots in a misguided effort to avoid a putsch, or the outbreak of open civil war. In the end, this error proved fatal — an armed popular base, exercising direct control over its communities and workplaces, could have been an invaluable line of defense for the Allende administration, as well as for its broader goal of total societal transformation.

    Because, with friends like these;

    When Henry Kissinger began secretly taping all of his phone conversations in 1969, little did he know that he was giving history the gift that keeps on giving. Now, on the 35th anniversary of the September 11, 1973, CIA-backed military coup in Chile, phone transcripts that Kissinger made of his talks with President Nixon and the CIA chief among other top government officials reveal in the most candid of language the imperial mindset of the Nixon administration as it began plotting to overthrow President Salvador Allende, the world’s first democratically elected Socialist. “We will not let Chile go down the drain,” Kissinger told CIA director Richard Helms in a phone call following Allende’s narrow election on September 4, 1970, according to a recently declassified transcript. “I am with you,” Helms responded.

    9/11 means different things to different people.

    1. RabidGandhi

      The comparison with Venezuela is hugely important, especially with regard to the suppliers boycot, where the Venezuelan opposition seem to be directly copying the Chilean playbook. Even so, there is another aspect that should be of greater concern. Chile stands out for its reliance on mining, especially copper. By failing in his bid to diversify the Chilean economy, Allende left his country vulnerable to the fluctuations of the global economy and the whims of first world importers.

      If memory serves, in 1973 mining represented around ~25% of the Chilean economy. Venezuela, by contrast, now has 45% of its GDP tied up in oil exports. The only fact that should be surprising, then, is that the Bolivarian governments have lasted as long as they have; perhaps a testament to the sweeping social improvements that have won them a mass-supported bulwark against constant right wing assaults. Even so, with the economy undiversified, that bulwark will only hold out for so long.

      1. Jim Haygood

        This phenomenon has been termed the “resource curse.” It consists of multiple elements, all bad.

        For one, the ability to produce a commodity at the world’s lowest price reduces the incentive to diversify one’s economy. In an extreme case like Saudi Arabia, even the workers hired to produce the oil are mostly foreign, leaving domestic workers unskilled and idle.

        Second, contrary to the belief early in the industrial revolution that commodity prices would be driven up by scarcity, in fact technological improvement has more than counterbalanced scarcity to keep commodity prices flat to down in real terms.

        Finally, as every commodity trader knows, the stylized secular chart pattern of any commodity is a sharp spike owing to a shortage, followed by a long (as in decades) bowl produced by excessive capacity brought online in the wake of the shortage.

        Governments, not adept at realizing that commodity price spikes are not sustainable, accumulate fixed costs during the boom years and then get crunched in the subsequent price crash.

        1. Alejandro

          Is this suppose to explain what happened in Chile in 1973? Catallactics, ushered in AND imposed via a brutal military dictatorship, yet fail to recognize the contradiction in the so-called “effects of violent intervention with the market”…

        2. Watt4Bob

          This phenomenon has been termed the “resource curse.” It consists of multiple elements, all bad.

          The curse is mostly the result of having powerful and rapacious neighbors with no compunction but to use whatever means necessary to install a ‘friendly’ government willing to repress its own people in order to allow the theft of their ‘resources’.

          For one, the ability to produce a commodity at the world’s lowest price reduces the incentive to diversify one’s economy.

          It was not the people of Chile, who profited by the “ability to produce a commodity at the world’s lowest price” and so cannot be blamed for the inability to diversify their economy.

          As for Chile’s governing elite, they wore the comfortable version of the “copper collar’, the one made of money as opposed to chains, and so paid-off, lived in wealth and comfort so long as they kept their countrymen from doing anything that Anaconda copper didn’t like.

          In an extreme case like Saudi Arabia, even the workers hired to produce the oil are mostly foreign, leaving domestic workers unskilled and idle.

          The extreme case of Saudi Arabia is a direct result of the hegemonic tactics just described, install a government ‘friendly’ to American ‘interests’ in this case the House of Saud, and make them so fabulously wealthy that there is no questioning their loyalty, until it becomes questionable…

          Second, contrary to the belief early in the industrial revolution that commodity prices would be driven up by scarcity, in fact technological improvement has more than counterbalanced scarcity to keep commodity prices flat to down in real terms.

          Finally, as every commodity trader knows, the stylized secular chart pattern of any commodity is a sharp spike owing to a shortage, followed by a long (as in decades) bowl produced by excessive capacity brought online in the wake of the shortage.

          Until finally, after the inevitable effect of monopolistic control of commodity ‘markets’ and the corrupting influence of corporate power destroy the working man’s earning potential, and by extension his purchasing power, and so extinguishes ‘demand’.

          Governments, not adept at realizing that commodity price spikes are not sustainable, accumulate fixed costs during the boom years and then get crunched in the subsequent price crash.

          It was not the Chilean government who concerned themselves with sustainability, as they were paid not to, and the corporations who made all the money didn’t give a damn either.

          It should be easy to understand the logic, and necessity of voting out the ruling elite who were very good at lining their own pockets, but not so good at planning for their people’s well-being.
          The Chilean people grew tired of rule by greedy people bought-off by American corporations, and elected a socialist government in an effort to remedy the situation.

          For their troubles, they were treated to a violent coup with thousands killed, tortured and disappeared.

          And finally, it appears that you think this is all the ‘natural’ operation of ‘markets’?

          1. OpenThePodBayDoorsHAL

            Superb stuff, especially “monopolistic control of commodity markets”, supply and demand pressures on wheat and oil and copper have mostly faded to insignificance with hyper-leveraged commodities markets and supine (complicit) regulators. See: oil going to $140 not so many years ago despite building supply and weak demand.
            Goldman famously decided commodities were an “asset class” in 2003 and completely f*cked up these critical price signals for the world economy.

    2. Katniss Everdeen

      “…. an armed popular base, exercising direct control over its communities and workplaces, could have been an invaluable line of defense for the Allende administration, as well as for its broader goal of total societal transformation.”

      “Those who do not learn history”…………are condemned to being exploited and controlled by those who do.

    3. Jim Haygood

      ‘Objecting to government-mandated price controls and export restrictions, powerful business interests took to hoarding consumer essentials.’

      Businesses don’t exist for the purpose of “hoarding.” But if mandated prices are set below cost, of course goods will not be sold at a loss.

      Blaming the victims instead of the price controllers is like blaming a murder victim for “getting in the way of my bullet.”

      1. MyLessThanPrimeBeef

        Goods perhaps, but not labor.

        If mandated prices (for labor) are set below cost, serfs will still sell their labor.

        For example, any soldier who never came back from Iraq obviously under-priced his labor.

      2. hunkerdown

        Businesses don’t exist for the purpose of “hoarding.”

        Oh, right, our precious middlemen call it “sequestration” and “arbitrage”.

        There’s a million pounds of aluminum in the Mexican desert that calls bullshit on your claim. Any more self-absorbed theology you would like to discuss this fine Monday?

    4. afisher

      The terrible legacy of the Pinochet years were also done by the “Chicago boys” who were hired to run the government. In their hate of the people and the embrace of neoliberal capitalism, they did something much worse: they changed the Constitution of the country so that undoing all their hateful legislation would be near impossible to override. When you hear of Student Protests in Chile – they are still fighting to undo the terrible legacy.

      Sidenote: US has one of the Chicago Boys, entrenched at the Cato Institute.

      1. pretzelattack

        yeah the chicago austerity mongers, and kissinger. guess who takes advice from kissinger, and pushes neoliberal economic policies. the democrats used to be opposed to that sort of thing, at least in public.

    5. ProNewerDeal

      What was Allende’s Socialist party’s policies, were they Nordic-style Social Democracy?

      I still am not sure if there is a meaningful ideological difference between Nordic Social Democracy, & Latin American “Socialism of the 21st Century” in Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia.

      Norway & Venezuela both have a state-owned oil company, the profits of which are actually used to help their citizens, specifically in education & health funding. Yet the likes of 0bama/Bush43 praise Norway & slam Venezuela.

      Allende was even a full White Guy TM like the Nordics, albeit not blond-hair blue eyes like some Nordics. I suspected this was perhaps an important reason the likes of 0bama/Bush43 praises the Nordic nations while labeling the part-Native American &/or Black Venezuelan/Ecuador/Bolivian Presidents as being “Commie” “Dictators”.

      Perhaps the Nordics have a special secret deal with Murica & the US Imperial MIC: go along with the US Imperial foreign policy, & don’t loudly promote your Social Democratic system, to anyone but especially not to nonwhite nations; & in turn we won’t falsely slander you as Commie Dictators as we do any other nation attempting Social Democracy.

  5. johnnygl

    Can we start a #bringbackbernie campaign yet? Or do we need to wait until the talk of joe biden reaches a critical mass?

    1. John Zelnicker

      @johnnygl – My daughter and I were talking yesterday and wondered, in light of Hillary’s medical episode, what happens if she becomes unable to continue as the Democratic nominee. Does Kaine move up? He did not receive any votes in the primaries. Does Bernie become the nominee? He was the runner-up for the nomination and received millions of votes in the primaries. In many areas of life the runner-up takes over when the winner drops out. Or, can someone outside the nomination process, like Biden, be designated as the nominee by the party? Whichever answer is correct, I really don’t want to find out, notwithstanding my aversion to Hillary. It would be probably the worst mess our election system has ever witnessed, surpassing even the debacle of 2000.

      1. Katniss Everdeen

        As we were “reminded” during the recent round of presidential primaries, as if anyone ever actually knew, the political parties are private, and make their own rules.

        They can do whatever they want to do. My guess is they’d replace her with biden, but I have no doubt she would fight replacement tooth and nail.

        Having said that, they had better make a decision quickly. If they manage to get through this “episode,” and I don’t know if they will, another so much as a stumble in the next 60 or so days would surely be the end of her.

        Absentee ballots begin going out in October with her name on them. I can’t imagine that, in the event she was unable to continue, early votes for her could be counted as votes for a replaccement candidate. god, what a mess it would be if they tried to make that case. Especially with only eight justices on the “supreme” court.

        1. Katharine

          They can’t actually do whatever they want, because states have election laws with filing deadlines, which are all past by now. Whoever is on the ballot is on the ballot. If the Democratic ticket wins and Congress accepts the result from the electoral college, then presumably she would be inaugurated if she could be, to serve while she could or have Kaine take over if she couldn’t (by a process much better defined now than formerly). If she were already out of the picture, they would probably accept Kaine as the elected successor, if only because anything else would be so arbitrary it would create trouble. That would mean the Speaker, probably still Ryan, would move up to Vice President.

          1. Katniss Everdeen

            I think it’s the party that must meet filing deadlines to get on the ballot, not the candidate, but then I was unaware that the whole political party thing was “private.”

            1. Katharine

              Certainly not just the party in this state. Candidates are named, party affiliations are secondary information. I would imagine that was at least very common if not universal.

          2. LBarber

            No, Ryan would not automatically become VP. The new President will nominate someone, and then the Senate and House have to approve:

            Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress. — 25th amendment to US Constitution.

      2. human

        At the request of the Democratic National Committee, the U.S. Supreme Court on March 27, 2000 let stand a lower court ruling gutting the Voting Rights Act of 1965, affirming that the DNC is not subject to the Act, but can function as a “private club.” ~ courtesy of LaRouche and company

        Their nomination is ultimately their choice and their choice only.

        1. Katniss Everdeen

          Interestingly enough, a similar situation occurred during the election of none other than b. obama to the u. s. senate from Illinois.

          From Wiki:

          The Democratic and Republican primary elections were held in March, which included a total of 15 candidates who combined to spend a record total of over $60 million seeking the open seat. State Senator Barack Obama won the Democratic primary and Jack Ryan won the Republican primary. Three months later, Ryan announced his withdrawal from the race four days after the Chicago Tribune persuaded a California court to release child custody records. Six weeks later, the Illinois Republican State Central Committee chose former Diplomat Alan Keyes to replace Ryan as the Republican candidate. The election was the first for the U.S. Senate in which both major party candidates were African American. Obama’s 43% margin of victory was the largest in the state history of U.S. Senate elections.

          1. Katharine

            Similar to what? If I am reading your numbers right, the Republican Party made its change in July, which was probably before any state deadline.

            I have just been checking the Maryland calendar for this year. The deadline for central committees to fill a vacancy in nomination was September 9 (60 days before the election), and the deadline for the State Board of Elections to prepare and certify content and arrangement of ballots is September 14 (at least 55 days before the election, as required by law). After that, no changes are possible. Deadlines may vary slightly elsewhere, but surely not be much later, as paper ballots have to be printed for provisional voting if nothing else.

            1. Katharine

              Darn, I lied. Having found the relevant code, I see that under court order, or in exceptional circumstances, the deadline may be violated, but they have plainly gone out of their way to make this difficult–rightly, I think, as some of the provisions for handling late changes seem apt to introduce confusion.

      3. Vatch

        Article 2, Section 7 of the Bylaws (not the Charter) is relevant:

        ( c ) Special meetings of the National Committee may be held upon the call of the Chairperson with the approval of the Executive Committee with reasonable notice to the members, and no action may be taken at such a special meeting unless such proposed action was included in the notice of the special meeting. The foregoing notwithstanding, a special meeting to fill a vacancy on the National ticket shall be held on the call of the Chairperson, who shall set the date for such meeting in accordance with the procedural rules provided for in Article Two, Section 8(d) of these Bylaws.

        Section 8(d):

        (d) Except as otherwise provided in the Charter or in these Bylaws, all questions before the Democratic National Committee shall be determined by majority vote of those members present and voting in person or by proxy.

      4. crittermom

        John Zelnicker-
        I believe this election is already the worst mess (corruption) our system has seen and would welcome Bernie being back in it.

        If Hellary is taking Coumadin perhaps it’s not working well for her, or the side effects are too much for her system.
        Perhaps she should be switched to the generic Warfarin–the stuff they apparently use to kill rats.
        That may be more in line with her system. Much more. *wink*

        Funny (not) how she complains about Trump not revealing his tax returns, yet she refuses to reveal her health problems. No wonder she hasn’t been very visible since ‘winning’ the nomination.

        The debates should be quite the show if she’s coughing/choking on her answers or passes out.

        Maybe she’ll suffer an ankle sprain *wink, wink*, which would conveniently necessitate her sitting during the debates?
        Bets, anyone?

        Gads, truth would be such a welcome thing in this election…

        1. ambrit

          My money’s on H Clinton suffering a “serious relapse” into pneumonia, necessitating an ‘indefinite’ postponement of the debates.

          1. Jim Haygood

            Mixing an adjective and a noun in a comparison: it’s linguistically “fashion forward,” to say the least.

            Are you a native speaker?

          2. hunkerdown

            Hateful?! afisher, if we hate you, it is because, like your idol, you never reply with a straight answer when engaged on your talking points. I think you owe us — all the American people — much, much more than that.

          3. crittermom

            It’s obvious you missed the fact I was ‘speaking’ tongue-in-cheek when I commented, as I was referencing an earlier comment regarding Warfarin being used to eradicate rats. (That and the *wink* I’d added sailed right over your head, apparently)

            Hateful? Yes. I’ve grown to hate Clinton for her complete dishonesty.

            First she says she turned over all the emails, and then Oops! The FBI found thousands more.

            She said she didn’t have classified info on her personal server.
            Oops! Proven to be a lie once again.

            In response she said she didn’t know how to distinguish classified emails from others.
            Really?! Remember, she was a senior partner at a law firm before entering the White House as First Lady.

            As to my “ignorance”?
            THAT I take exception to. Education does not come just from books or schooling.

            “Hateful and ignorance”?
            If you’re still paying off that student loan for a college education, you should demand your money back.
            My mere h.s. education taught me better than that.

            ‘Nuff said.

        2. oh

          I don’t expect her to participate in the debates, even if she doesn’t drop out. I think that is the plan all along unless she’s really behind in the polls.

        3. shesAwarmongerYouKnow

          The generic is actually called “warfarin”? As in, if she becomes president, there’ll be lots of warfarin’ goin’ on?

          Too fitting.

        4. John Zelnicker

          @crittermom – “Gads, truth would be such a welcome thing in this election…”

          From your mouth to god’s ear.

  6. John Wright

    It is great that Cillizza brings back memories of Nixon’s Press Secretary Ron Ziegler when Cillizza states “Well, that is no longer operative.”

    Here is a clip from

    “But on April 17, 1973, Nixon stunned reporters by saying that he had conducted an investigation that raised the prospect of involvement by White House officials.”

    “Mr. Ziegler told a puzzled press corps that this was now the ”operative statement,” repeating the word operative six times. Finally, R. W. Apple Jr. of The New York Times asked, ”Would it be fair for us to infer, since what the president said today is now considered the operative statement, to quote you, that the other statement is no longer operative, that it is now inoperative?” ”

    Now we need to recycle more Nixon people and have Dick Cheney endorse HRC’s health, perhaps by saying. “Many people thought my health was suspect in 1999, but, through medical science, I’ve been able to continue to “serve” my country until the present day.”

    Maybe the Clinton campaign is reaching out to Cheney today..

    1. RabidGandhi

      Nixon increased food stamps, created the EPA, expanded Medicaid…

      Maybe we could resurrect him to have an option to the left of the Goldwater Girl.

      1. John Wright

        And Nixon’s politically inspired war on drugs did have rehab and treatment as part of the plan, which was largely removed by subsequent administrations who ramped up prison time.

        I’ve read that Nixon was for socialized medicine, but it wasn’t good enough for Teddy Kennedy, who helped kill it.

        Sometimes cynical, self-serving people do good things when pushed, while compromised “good” people do harmful things.

        If Clinton is elected, one can only hope she follows the “good” NIxon model. but my fear is she will be an even more hawkish Obama, cynically saying one thing while doing another.

        The Democrats and moderate Republicans pushed Nixon to do things, but that countervailing force is gone now.

        1. JTMcPhee

          The Chinese and Russians embalm and display their dead Great Leaders for all to see.

          Is embalming for public display of the otherwise rotting corpses going to be part of the Obama and then Clinton “legacies?”

          And inquiring minds want to know if both Cheney and Kissinger will be accorded “state funerals,” with display in the Rotunda and then that slow military parade to “hallowed ground” where so many dead by their policy hands are buried? Or is the planning now that both will be given perpetual transfusions of virgin’s blood and full-body replacements, so the evil that lurks in the minds of some men (and women) can be carried forward like Peter Thiel into future generations?

          1. NotTimothyGeithner

            Ownership of the body matters. Washington is at Mount Vernon not the Capitol Rotunda because Martha’s family didn’t want to disturb the tomb.

      2. Jim Haygood

        Nixon also delinked the dollar from gold and implemented price controls.

        He was a Bolivarian at heart! ;-)

        1. Alejandro

          He also nominated L. Powell, of the infamous “Powell memo” , to the SCOTUS…and while he(Nixon) might have publically postured and declared-“we’re all keynesians now”, the new deal was being hijacked (Hayeked) where it mattered.

  7. Ché Pasa

    If Hillary really does have pneumonia — who knows, though, as the announcements and reporting have not necessarily been paragons of candor — it is serious. Pneumonia can turn fatal to old folks (68 is plenty old enough), sometimes when it seems to be under control. At the least, it can be debilitating for months.

    As for her use of Coumadin it’s been well-known and pretty widely reported for years.

    The media speculation about her health, though, is little more than the usual political season bullshit. Believe nothing; it’s all crap. No matter who is purveying it.

    1. Archie

      I experienced pneumonia at age 39. I was given antibiotics and told to go home and rest. The next week of my life was nothing short of a near death experience and for a couple of months thereafter, I was in a physically weak condition. If Hillary was diagnosed with pneumonia on Friday, as the AP has reported, her entourage would have had to not only carry her into her car, they would have had to carry her out as well, and probably with an IV still attached.

      1. Vatch

        Some pneumonia is genuinely life threatening, as you experienced. But pneumonia can have various levels of severity. See this for more information:

        I don’t know whether I’ve ever had pneumonia, but I’ve had both bacterial bronchitis and type A influenza. My experiences were quite bad, although not as severe as yours. In both cases, it took a month for me to fully recover.

      2. Katniss Everdeen

        No kidding.

        When I had “walking” pneumonia, I could only pray for a cough as mild and infrequent as hillary’s seemed to be. Every time I had to cough, which was constantly, I had to wrap my arms tightly around my ribs and squeeze because otherwise the pain was unbearable.

        I was 44.

      3. Michael

        Pretty much. Sec. Clinton has mild pneumonia, she should be resting, and this speculation is feverish and unpleasant to witness.

          1. MyLessThanPrimeBeef

            That’s the kindest thing we can do.

            Since early March, I have suggested taking a few months off.

            1. NYPaul

              Something’s fishy here. Whatever her problem really is I found it strange her handlers floated out the term, “pneumonia.” Why use such a scary, ominous sounding word when something more benign, like a “mild respiratory ailment” would’ve sufficed just fine?

              Sounds like the beginning of “plausible deniability” exit possibilities have begun.

        1. Pat

          Exactly, she should have been resting. IF she was diagnosed with pneumonia, she should have suspended activities for a few days. She is not President, there was nothing vital for her to do this weekend. Send delegates to the fundraisers, and offer a statement about 9/11. There was no reason for her to soldier on this weekend. Oh, but it would have fueled the rumors. No, it would have done a lot to end the rumors. She gets up in front of the press, and notes that they know she went to the doctor, she has developed a mild case of pneumonia and as sad as it makes her to miss X, Y and Z she is going to take the weekend to rest and allow the antibiotics to get started. “I will be sending __________to this event, and Chelsea to represent me at the 9/11 memorial” or something like that.

          But instead she ends up having an episode that is clearly NOT pneumonia and there are at least two damning videos about it. Of course that means there is the other question: does she really have pneumonia or was that the least problematic excuse they could come up with?

          And if you find the speculation ‘feverish’ and “unpleasant” I suggest you turn off the media, the news and the internet until you hear otherwise because this is not going to go away, and even if it fades unless she starts leaping up stairs, stops coughing and frankly never has a moment of confusion on this campaign again it will start all over. Largely because most people do not believe Hillary Clinton or her people about anything, and have no reason to do so especially when their stories don’t really add up.

            1. JTMcPhee

              Just curious — has anyone asked Bill if he has had s-x with that woman he is married to, in the last year or 10?

      1. Katharine

        But he delivered his lengthy inaugural address in a pouring March rain. Hillary would at least have an umbrella. (Didn’t Obama at one of his inaugurations? Or have I mixed a remembered picture from some other occasion with memories of an inauguration?)

        1. hunkerdown

          I support Hillary, inasmuch as I’d hold her coat while she gives an overlong acclamation speech in a harsh DC winter.

    1. JohnnyGL

      The article was junk, but MMT is still in the “any publicity is good publicity” stage. If the reporter wanted to do some actual work, he could have pointed out that massive deficits during the Reagan, GW Bush and Obama administrations failed to spark the retail level inflation that many traditional economists feared could happen.

      Also, an authority like Dick Cheney said “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter” so clearly he believes in MMT at some level. That means there’s some bipartisan consensus on this issue. DC press core LOVES bipartisan stuff. It’s a sign that something can be taken “seriously”.

      1. MyLessThanPrimeBeef

        When Cheney believes in MMT at some level, that reveals the other side of the Faustian bargain.

        Perhaps beyond accepting the MMT’s status-quo description of the current system, we improve on it a little bit, and put some kind of restraint on government spending.

        Another idea to improve the status quo is to make clear that any new money created belongs to the people to spend, and not the government (‘make clear’ here because I believe Constitutionally, it’s already implied so).

        1. Benedict@Large

          MMT is an operational description of how an economy works, not a policy prescription for what a government should and should not do. The idea of placing a restraint falls in the latter category, while the concept of money ownership is constitutional.

          In fact, MMT makes it pretty clear that optimal spending levels are reached at full employment.

          1. MyLessThanPrimeBeef

            And when we improve on how the economy works here, its operations, MMT will have to change its operational description.

            I am hoping for change and improvement.

            Clarifying the ownership of money is essential. In fact, the most important issue. All new money belongs to the people to spend.

  8. rw tucker

    Hillary is done. The video is absolutely damning and it was taken from three angles. Metal objects were falling out of her pant leg. During her big coughing spell, there was video of her vomiting mucus into a glass and then drinking it. She’s had her Dukakis moment and doesn’t know it yet.

    Obama has said Trump is unfit to serve as president and other comments like:

    “I continue to believe Mr. Trump will not be president,” Obama said at a news conference in California after a meeting with southeast Asian leaders. “And the reason is that I have a lot of faith in the American people. Being president is a serious job. It’s not hosting a talk show, or a reality show.”

    I used to think that right wing conspiracies about an Obama third term were bullshit, through and through. But now I am concerned about a peaceful transition in power. Will Obama give the reins to Trump? Will he put off the election until there is a better result?

    More importantly, will the American people be okay with that?

    I am very afraid.

    1. katiebird

      Could you post the links to those videos, I haven’t seen the one with the metal things falling out of her pants leg or the one with her drinking vomit.

        1. Gary

          I had to wear one of those catheters for about a week after a procedure. I had the smallest one available and there is no way the wrinkles in those pictures accounts for the actual size of an empty bag, let alone one with natural fluids. It’s nonsense.

    2. Roger Smith

      The mucus glass video is a total fake. Watch the source video, there is clearly no green blob (though your source is a much better edit then the one I saw on twitter).

      As far as the fall, I have seen only two video with distinctly different angles (main 45 degree angle and then one slightly off centered) and then a third that is the same is the main video but mirrored laterally. I have no idea why no one else points that out or why people are claiming it is a third angle.

      1. JTMcPhee

        So let’s give the old gal, who is no respecter of truth and decency herself I would have to observe, a break, ok? Because we are such careful kindly people who want to make sure of all the facts we think we have access to before making any kind of statement or judgment about events. The Dem campaign, the ants eating the aphids (see my little post below) being all about honesty and issues and all that. Because “we” are “better than that,” and so we get our wings eaten off and milked of our sustenance and provide handy snack food for the Foraminifera Rulers…

        We love our fokking delusions, preserved for us by people like the Reagans, see the classic shot of Nancy Reagan trying to keep the crowds from seeing Ronnie
        S half-shaved head after one of his medical issues:

        1. Roger Smith

          I am not advocating proving any breaks of excuses (if this is what you mean). I am of the opinion that (in our dichotomous world) Trump is a poor candidate, but that Clinton needs to go. That said, we need to make sure the supporting material is real. I find the glob video highly suspect, especially as the globes appear to disappear in translucent water and glass as soon as the glass is brought down from her sip.

        2. jrs

          Well what do you imagine will happen if we decide not to be honest to those who aren’t honest. The resurrection of Bernie Sanders candidacy in time for the election via our strategic lying or something?

          Nah. So why not preserve an attempt at objectivity being we are going to get screwed regardless. Our real enemies aren’t the rulers who act in their interest but the corporations, if we know a way by pure deceit to defeat them it might be more than worth it. But just getting tweedledee instead of tweddledum acting in their name not really. All we’ve done is pervert our own capacity to perceive reality for a non-plan. Our politicians already take advantage of our gullibility to believing whatever (Iraq had WMD etc.).

      2. Buttinsky

        You’re absolutely right about the mistakenly described “different” angle that is actually a mirrored image, which I myself didn’t catch either until you mentioned it on my post of the video yesterday. (It’s obvious of course from the direction the van is facing, but the eye doesn’t always catch the “obvious.”) The better angle from almost directly behind Clinton is harder to find as a standalone video, and I haven’t seen it posted as much. Here’s the best link I could find in a quick search.

      3. crittermom

        Roger Smith-
        ” I have no idea why no one else points that out or why people are claiming it is a third angle.”

        The answer?
        The obscure we see eventually.
        The obvious takes a little longer.

    3. Anne

      She wasn’t vomiting mucus, she lost – or deliberately spit out – the cough drop she had put in her mouth earlier. I’ve done that myself, usually out of fear of inadvertently inhaling the cough drop if I’m hit with a spell of coughing.

      1. EGrise

        That’s my take as well, she was just trying to do it discretely.

        Thing is, if we saw her occasionally spit a cough drop into a handkerchief and then make a joke about all the talking she does, she might be seen as more human and therefore likeable.

    4. Code Name D

      That is not just pneumonia, she was having a seizure, something else that has been observed on video. Didn’t they originally say this was dehydration?

      1. temporal

        Epilepsy as a side effect of something tramatic versus Pneumonia.

        Fancy blue Zeiss lenses are sometimes used to treat epilepsy.
        Short-term, often predictable loss of motor control is common.
        An aide being close at all times, as in the person guiding her to the van, would be expected.

        Pneumonia does not produce motor issues but is often accompanied by powerful bouts of coughing. Pneumonia does not require an aide but generally involves lots of bed rest. It doesn’t lead to rapid dehydration either. She was there for less than an hour.

        She didn’t cough in the video and she couldn’t stand on her own when she moved from the post.

        If they had planned better they would have said that Hillary had a bout of food poisoning. Instead it was the explained as the heat and then, Hillary showing no obvious symptoms, trying to imitate Typhoid Mary. I thought politicians were better at fibbing than this.

      2. Ché Pasa

        These strange and erroneous notions about pneumonia and its effects are spreading and they’re pernicious.

        There’s no way for us to be certain the reports of Hillary having pneumonia are true or not, but her visible symptoms are consistent with a severe and/or long untreated case of pneumonia, symptoms which can include shaking, dehydration, feeling faint or passing out, high fever, “out of body” experience, severe cough, and so on.

        The people who are reporting their own experiences with pneumonia in this thread can testify. I’ve been there too. I had a severe cough for weeks. Motor problems seemed to hit from out of the blue. I passed out in a supermarket line. When I finally got to the ER they hooked me up to an IV stat because I was so dehydrated. I was in the hospital for eleven days on IV antibiotics and fluids. And it was months before I recovered fully.

        All of Hillary’s visible symptoms are consistent with such a severe case of pneumonia.

        On the other hand, it could be something else or something else and pneumonia.

        It’s serious. And it could be deadly even if treated.


        1. Sammy Maudlin

          [H]er visible symptoms are consistent with a severe and/or long untreated case of pneumonia

          However, the facts of the situation are not.

          As far as “severe” goes, according to her release, she was diagnosed on Friday, and given antibiotics. As anyone who has suffered bacterial respiratory infection knows, antibiotics will usually get you on the road to recovery pretty quickly. Combined with plenty of fluid intake, she should have been out of the woods, not hurtling towards a complete physical breakdown. Also, the prevailing message is that its’s a “mild” case and that the real bugbear is dehydration. It stretches credulity to suggest a person with a team of handlers surrounding her at all times can’t keep hydrated.

          “Undiagnosed?” Seriously? She is admittedly under the care and supervision of some medical staff. Pneumonia is fairly easy to spot if you’re examined. It’s not like she’s homeless or someone avoiding medical interaction because of lack of insurance or funds.

          As someone who has suffered from pneumonia three times in his life, the fact is that when I was at my sickest point in each battle (high fever, massive coughing, exhaustion), at no time did I become spastic. A person who loses complete motor function due to pneumonia needs to get rushed to a hospital, not her daughter’s apartment.

          While you caution against speculation, you actually engage in some pretty tenuous, and I believe dangerous speculation in an attempt to lend credence to what is obviously a poor, belated cover story.

          1. Yves Smith

            You are way too optimistic re the curative powers of antibiotics. You’ve got no idea how long she had it. And I’ve had much less serious infections that have not responded well to meds. I’m as healthy as a horse yet I’ve had multiple instances of it taking more than one course of antibiotics to do much.

            Having said that, I agree with the pneumonia claim being dodgy. Does not add up to what happened on the tape.

    5. sd

      Has anyone commented on the two women who to appear to be nurses who are accompanying Clinton? They are in the video, both are wearing identical navy blue dresses with short sleeves and both wear flat beige colored shoes. They help Clinton into the vehicle.

      I just wondered if it was standard procedure for medical personnel to always travel with presidential candidates.

      PS the dropping metal thing looked like it might be a lipstick.

      1. Foy

        One of the ‘nurses’ appears to be her personal doctor, Dr Lisa Bardack, who was named in the press release stating that Hillary has pneumonia.

        In these photos you can see Dr Bardack appearing to take her pulse as they walked and also appearing to test Hillary’s motor skills by asking her to squeeze her fingers. Also notice when her pulse is being taken that Hillary puts her right hand flat on on her chest – she does this a lot – does she do it to hide/control a tremor?

        It’s also interesting that Dr Bardack just happened to be immediately on hand when required – so it’s not just a nurse but a doctor by her side at all times now?

        (Don’t like using an obviously right wing website for the photos but it’s the best I can find at the moment).

        I remember back in the day laughing at the efforts of the old Soviet Union or North Korea trying to hide the health failures of their leaders… welcome to the club… I wonder when the body double appears?!

    6. timbers

      Metal things falling out of her pants leg?

      What ‘s next …. Arnold walking up to her as she’s dragged into the van and saying “You’re terminated. “Hasta la vista, baby” as he fires an exploding missile into her liquid metal body?

  9. Arizona Slim

    Slim checking in with personal experience on the pneumonia front.

    During October 1965, I came down with pneumonia. I was a healthy child before I got it, and then I wasn’t.

    It took the better part of the winter to recover. And, like they’re saying about Hillary, I was pumped full of drugs.

    At one point, our family doctor encouraged my mother to take me to Florida. He thought that the warmer weather would hasten my recovery.

    I recall my illness being described as “walking pneumonia.” Believe me, this IS a big deal It is not to be taken lightly.

    More recently, my aunt, who had COPD, died as a result of complications from pneumonia.

  10. JamesG

    There are two pneumonia vaccines, one for viral and one for bacterial. Medicare covers them for people over 65.

    Why would a candidate for Presidency not have had both?

    As for the canard that pneumonia is now a “harmless” disease I recommend today’s obituary of the “nurse” in that famous V-J Day photo which includes this quote: “The cause was pneumonia …”

  11. JTMcPhee

    There’s some interesting research on how ants and aphids interact. The Narrative would have it that the ants (predators) “farm” the aphids and “protect them against predators.” Look closer and maybe that is less of a “symbiosis” than it appears:

    Professor Vincent Jansen of Royal Holloway’s School of Biological Sciences, concludes: “Although both parties benefit from the interaction, this research shows is that all is not well in the world of aphids and ants. The aphids are manipulated to their disadvantage: for aphids the ants are a dangerous liaison.”

    Some here react strongly to any biomorphologizing of our Exceptional Human Biome. But there are echoes and parallels and illustrative analogies in the wider world of nature that bear on understanding our own Exceptionalness and larger-scale failures, measured against species survival.

    it appears the beneficent overlord ants use chemical controls, as in “drugs,” pheromones of some sort, as a kind of chemical shackles. Helps keep the critters who live by sucking the life out of plants close enough for the ants to slurp up the “nectar” the aphids discharge. And also for an ant with an appetite to reach out and grab a tasty aphid to satisfy a sudden hunger. Ants chemically inhibit aphid wings from forming in juveniles, and bite the wings off, and use the chemical shackles to keep them bunched up (reduced exposure to competition from other predators). Miners and manufacturing workers gotta stay close to the working mines, live I the company town… So much for free movement of labor.

    Naw, nothing in human behaviors that recapitulate in slightly different form what happens at different scales with different species… WE ARE UNIQUE IN ALL THE UNIVERSE! All human activity is Sui generis!”

  12. Afisher

    The bigoted deplorables at this website are a disgrace to America’s everyday families and an insult to the fallen first responders of 9/11. Your ghoulish and unseemly preoccupation with Senator Clinton’s little stumbles besmirch the reputation of this weblog.

    Senator Clinton is thriving in the care of some of America’s preeminent taxidermists. Their organic brain-tanning process leaves her skin supple and smooth. A flexible wire armature enables various dramatic poses. With realistic glass eyes and noiseless silicone casters she is ready for the hurly-burly of a spirited campaign. Senator Clinton showed her enthusiasm during a rough-and-tumble, no-holds-barred press conference with her press pool: Paul Krugman, Matthew Yglesias, and New York Times Senior Editor Human Abedin. In lossless cd-quality high fidelity with no trace of Huma’s accent, Senator Clinton exclaimed, “Let’s Roll!”

    Special note to all crackpot conspiracy racists: Huma was drinking a glass of water when Hillary said that.

    1. hunkerdown

      Oh yeah? Where was Huma’s other hand?

      I believe you nailed the basket of incorrigibles. Thank you, whoever you are. I needed that in this pleasant weather with a shitstorm directly overtop of me.

  13. Katniss Everdeen

    Some brilliant tidbits from this a. m.’s morning jerk. Of course I meant “joe.”

    During discussion, someone dismissed hill’s “pneumonia” saying that campaign “consultants” will tell you that EVERY candidate gets “pneumonia” at some point during a campaign.

    And lawrence o’donnell proclaimed himself unconcerned about candidates’ health. His rationale? During his last presidential campaign, FDR was “dying,” and if you asked anyone who voted for him if that would have prevented them from doing so, they “probably” would have said no.

    Oh, and the most common first symptom of heart disease in men is…….death. Anyone can wake up in the morning and be dead by nightfall. No mention of tim russert in making his “point.”

    1. crittermom

      It’s even more familiar to we victims.

      What still infuriates me is the fact the govt (no, it’s apparently no longer ‘our’ govt) was fully aware this was going on but waited years (until after the SOL’s have run out for homeowners) to acknowledge it.

      Now the govt solution is to impose ‘big’ fines (generally equal to around 10% of the bank’s illegal profits) and keep the money, while we former homeowners lost everything.

      Yet another word or ‘fact’ given repeatedly in graphs, as in the linked article, is the term ‘delinquent’ which makes it sound like the homeowner quit making pymts and which is what those who were NOT victims then believe. That we all just woke up one morning and decided we would stop making our mtg pymts. (If I had such power to get that many together for one cause, this would certainly be a different election!)

      Uhh……… At least in my case (and I’m sure I’m not alone), Chase Bank foreclosed on me while I was current on my pymts.
      They then began sending back future pymts. They CREATED the delinquency in order to foreclose.
      Hell, they foreclosed when there was no delinquency.

      I’ve said for years that the govt stood by and watched it take place, until there was enough money in it for THEM in the way of fines, to step in. Screw the homeowners.

      Lynn Szymoniak exposed the robo-signing six years ago on “60 Minutes”, so it’s impossible the govt didn’t know what was going on.

      I’m still awaiting a ruling on a class action I’m involved in against Chase. They kept my home in my name for 3 years after taking it, twice putting forced-placed insurance on it in my name.
      Biggest FCRA suit to date at $8.75 million.
      We homeowners were each to receive a whopping $50 of that, according to the attys I spoke with representing us.

      I now see that someone is appealing and I’m glad. Couldn’t turn out worse. The ‘justice’ we’re supposed to be getting in the form of $50 is a huge slap in the face.
      I told the atty I would gladly pay my ‘settlement’ share (Gawd how I hate that word now) if I were allowed just two minutes with Jamie Dimon, so I could give it back to him by sticking it ‘where the sun don’t shine’ on him.

      1. fresno dan

        September 12, 2016 at 2:09 pm

        It is beyond outrage – there is simply no word for how applicable law was simply ignored to benefit the financiers….

  14. McWatt

    I wish Hillary well and hope she recovers from what ever ails her. However, watching the two videos prior to her entering the car, you can see she is leaning against the chrome pillar for support, her right shoulder is significantly lower than her left, then as she walks forward she can’t control her head, her right foot goes completely backward and is dragging along the ground, then she collapses into the car. Perhaps a doctor can explain all this, but I have had pneumonia three times and never had these symptoms.

    1. Roger Smith

      Even before she moves her head is shaky and cocked upwards. It doesn’t look good. I also wonder what the little metal vile or what not was that dropped from her pants or around her as she was falling.

      1. Sammy Maudlin

        I also wonder what the little metal vile or what not was that dropped from her pants or around her as she was falling.

        The answer probably lies in whatever the agent that approached and grabbed her right side was holding in his right hand near his lapel.

    2. ambrit

      True. My first reaction to the video of her was: “She’s wasted!” Perhaps some serious drug interactions going on there.

      1. Yves Smith

        Oh, duh, I NEVER thought of that, that her meds could be what’s messing her up. I’ve been privately comparing her Chappaqua MD to Michael Jackson’s MD, in that 1. Her medical report looked like it was written by Hillary’s lawyers, 2. You’d expect someone at Hillary’s level to have a top doctor at a NY teaching hospital but you can’t keep secrets in places like that and 3. She’s been awfully amped at some of her events, which could be Adderall or other upper-ish drugs, which a conservative MD might be reluctant to prescribe regularly to someone of her age. But the idea of drug interactions is actually sorta obvious and should have occurred to me.

        1. hreik

          Many ‘celebrities’ (esp. secretive ones) receive concierge medical care, which tends to be substandard. Maybe it’s b/c of the secrecy, i dunno… but it tends to be lousy.

          1. oho

            “Many ‘celebrities’ (esp. secretive ones) receive concierge medical care, which tends to be substandard.”

            extend that thought to all professional services. I get the impression that despite their wealth, many celebrities are awful bad at finding competent service providers.

            and/or celebrities attract/retain deferential sycophants.

            1. Clive

              Indeed, when I volunteered at a treatment centre, a fair number of high-functioning chemically-dependent patients (C-level execs, senior clinicians, politicians) came in as — and this choice of words is intentional — victims of bespoke top-flight one-2-one primary care as provided by luxury outfits in London’s Harley Street or “hospitals” of the kind where a liveried footman helps you from the limo at the entrance.

              The drug regimes these places offered usually started with uppers or downers to help, in the words of Philip Marlow, with the occasional “humps” in the road; except of course, eventually it was all humps.

              Then came the polypharmacy in often ever more bizarre and scarcely feasible doses and combinations.

              What usually pushed the patients I saw over the edge — and gave the medicine-as-consumerism practitioners sufficient worry to finally throw in the towel — was an episode of physical collapse as both the doctors and their unfortunate charges fell off the tightropes they’d been walking.

        2. Steve H.

          – 2. You’d expect someone at Hillary’s level to have a top doctor at a NY teaching hospital but you can’t keep secrets in places like that

          Oh, duh, I NEVER thought of that!

          1. m

            When it comes to VIP patients if anyone were to access their records you better have a reason. Those are the only patients where the officials take Hipaa seriously. Fired, fined and lose your license. Hope that gossip rag pays well.

        3. crittermom

          Yves, I hadn’t thought of that either. Good point offered by ambrit.

          Excuses don’t cut it with me, however. The end result is still the same.

          I’m still having a problem with her saying that she doesn’t remember certain ‘security briefings’ back in 2012 due to her concussion. WHAT?
          My reaction to that is why the hell didn’t she step down at that time, at least for a while, if her memory was so compromised? If she was so affected by a concussion, she was obviously not well enough to be conducting business as SOS.

          Yet she uses that as an excuse now in relation to her total disregard for security concerns and that makes it all okay, regardless of the outcome created?

          I have the same feelings about any drugs she may be on or medical condition she obviously has if she’s not willing to reveal it. She is not currently well enough to be elected POTUS. The excuse for her behavior doesn’t change the facts her health is obviously compromised in some way, as it was then, and should disqualify her.

          Which, of course, is why she and her team are trying to hide it.
          It’s ‘her turn’ no matter what, apparently.

          Is she setting the stage for if/when she starts a war with Russia, so she can then fly above the destruction on Air Force One and blame her poor decision on her meds this time?

          1. Code Name D

            Not just meds being out of wack. It could be drug abuse. As if any one would deny any thing she wanted. This would enplane why they felt it necessary to be less than forthcoming on the issue.

            But then there is that cage little thing called the lack of evidence.

  15. River

    I highly doubt it is pneumonia. What grandmother with a serious illness show up at her daughter’s house with a not even 3 month old and a two year old? There’s campaigning and then there’s the family dynasty. I doubt even Hilary’s ambitions would put herself ahead of her grandkids. Regardless, it is poor judgement and more fodder for Trump.

    If intentional “Here’s a woman who cares more for herself then her child or grand children”

    If unintentional “Here’s a woman who’s judgement is so poor she puts her family at risk with a contagious disease. If she’s that unthinking about her actions towards her family, what about America’s families.”

    Once you connect the 9/11 event with that head bobbing incident. She has something serious going on with her health. Ironically, she may actually be telling the truth when she says she can’t remember things about the e-mail server, if she has Parkinson’s.

    1. Ivy

      Chelsea took one for the Team.
      Any detour to a hospital or other non-private space would have sparked untold media frenzies. Oh, wait…

    2. Anne

      By Sunday, and assuming she started on the antibiotics on Friday, she had at least 24 hours of medication on board. And assuming she was not running a fever, she would not be considered to be contagious when she arrived at her daughter’s.

      Also, let’s remember that Chelsea’s apartment is no cold-water flat; it is a 5,000 sq. ft. space that cost $10 million. Here’s a link to some photos and more.

      Ms Clinton and Mr Mezvinsky’s apartment has six and a half bathrooms, a home office and den, plus a 252-square-foot planting terrace and a private storage unit.

      The couple will also enjoy two dishwashers, two washer/dryers, his and her maze-like closet spaces and commodes, as well as natural light flooding the female dressing room – with double-sided vanity mirrors.

      ‘Wives eyes light up when they see the closets,’ said Ms Lazenby, the daughter of James Bond actor George Lazenby.

      ‘They smile and say they’ll need more clothes to live here. Their husbands just shake their heads.

      ‘The long apartment, located at 21 East 26th St enables ‘one spouse to be fast asleep while the other has a huge dinner party. All on one floor,’ she added.

      One person who toured the building, which was built in 1924 by luxury textile manufacturer Clarence B. Whitman & Sons, joked that residents of The Whitman will have a longer walk to their kitchen than many New Yorkers have to the corner store.

      So…my point is that in a space that large, there was little danger of exposing the babies to anything contagious.

        1. Anne

          I’m sure they do, but with 24 hours of medication, and assuming no fever (and assuming she even had pneumonia), she likely wasn’t contagious anyway.

          In fact, most day care facilities/homes and schools permit children to return under those same guidelines.

          My guess is, though, that Chelsea’s was the only place they could go that was close by and where they were guaranteed to be able to control the situation. Had she been taken to a hospital, there’s no way any of what transpired would not have ended up being leaked.

        2. Anne

          How many hands did Clinton shake between receiving her diagnosis and being on medication for 24 hours?

          Pretty sure I’m not the only one who’s noticed that all the coughing Clinton does she does into her hand, not into her elbow, so she’s pretty much a traveling Typhoid Mary.

      1. crittermom

        Sorry, but my head’s still spinnin’ over the “6 1/2 bathrooms”, which begs the question how full of ‘it’ must a couple with 2 small children be that they require that many bathrooms?

        I remain disgusted with the fact Hillary claimed they were ‘broke’ when they left the WH, and only able to afford ‘2 houses, Chelsea’s education, and helping out relatives’.

        Yes, I suppose 6+ bathrooms would be required in the Clinton family.

  16. armchair

    An astounding aspect of the Clinton health episode is how restrained Trump has been. Usually Trump hijacks a story like this with an obnoxious taunting tweet. It seems like good timing for Trump to exercise restraint and maintain the focus on Clinton. I did not think Trump was capable of restraint.

    1. NotTimothyGeithner

      I think he was lucky because he was asked about it so quickly and simply said he didn’t know what the reporters asked about.

      Two, she’s clearly not healthy. Those roped parades and green screen rallies were done for a reason. Clinton developing a problem was easy to predict during the course of a campaign.

    2. Buttinsky

      Yeah, Trump acting smart — spooky, huh? He’s letting others pursue the health issue while he mines the political gold that doesn’t make him look like he’s beating up on a sick old woman — those irredeemable, deplorable remarks Hillary made about irredeemable deplorables.

    3. JohnnyGL

      Trump was reasonably courteous, in fact. However, he took some shots at the Fed and CNBC is NOT happy! How dare he!!!

      Personally, I suspect this is a smart line of attack for Trump. Voters don’t know much about the Fed but what they do know, they don’t like. Most of what they know comes amidst tons of kicking and screaming against any kind of transparency as we saw during the “Audit the Fed” fight. There was plenty of dirty laundry that they didn’t want on display.

      1. MyLessThanPrimeBeef

        The Chivalry code requires Trump not campaign while his adversary is recuperating.

        “Go to Moscow. Take a few days off. Not nice for a gentleman politician to take advantage of a sick lady opponent.”

    4. River

      Maybe his daughter pulled him aside an said “Dad, there’s a saying I heard “If you wait by the river long enough, your enemy will float by”. Well Hillary has been floating downstream for sometime. Maybe give it a rest on Twitter and wait a while?”

  17. PQS

    From MSN this morning:

    As usual, obfuscation of duties and gobbledegook related to actual job descriptions and responsibilities means that the Top Brass get away unscathed….

    Money quote:
    Tolstedt was regularly praised for her unit’s ability to get customers to open numerous accounts. For a number of years, Wells Fargo’s proxy statement, which details executive pay, cited high “cross-selling ratios” as a reason that Tolstedt had earned her roughly $9 million in annual pay. For instance, in Wells Fargo’s 2015 proxy statement, the company said that its compensation committee had authorized Tolstedt’s $7.3 million stock and cash bonus that year, because “under her leadership, Community Banking achieved a number of strategic objectives, including continued strong cross-sell ratios, record deposit levels, and continued success of mobile banking initiatives.”

    Later that year, the L.A. City Attorney’s office sued the bank because of its sales tactics, saying that many of the abusive practices came from intense pressure on Wells Fargo’s employees to get customers to open up numerous accounts. A separate class action of former employees alleges there were fired for not meeting cross-selling goals, or going along with the aggressive sales tactics.

    Earlier this year when Wells Fargo released its annual proxy statement, it once again said that in order to justify her multimillion dollar bonus, Tolstedt’s division had “achieved a number of strategic objectives.” But this time, for the first time in years, cross-selling wasn’t listed as one of them.

    1. none


      it does not appear that Wells Fargo is requiring Carrie Tolstedt, the Wells Fargo executive who was in charge of the unit where employees opened more than 2 million largely unauthorized customer accounts—a seemingly routine practice that employees internally referred to as “sandbagging”—to give back any of her nine-figure pay.

      It says she got $125 million.

  18. Jim Haygood

    “The steel columns in the World Trade Center towers lost strength rapidly when the fire reached 400 degrees Fahrenheit.” — The Conversation article

    WHUT? That ain’t what I recall from strength of materials class. Here’s a chart showing that steel’s strength drops off maybe 5 percent at 400 degrees:

    But wait — that chart’s in them metric degrees Celsius. Applying the old “nine-fifths plus 32” conversion, that’s 752 degrees F.

    Verdict: total b.s. And the author claims to be an “Associate Professor of Structural Engineering and Applied Mechanics, University of Texas Arlington.” Ain’t takin’ no online engineering degree from him.

    1. sd

      A chain and its weakest link….
      What was the weakest point within the WTC columns? Bolts, rivets, welds, something else? Because isn’t that the point that would have weakened first which would have lead to the overall weakening of the structure?

      1. human

        A building is built to hold up what is above it. If even (an) entire floor(s) were to somehow come loose (extremely evenly in this event), the building structure below it would still hold it up!

        There is no amount of oxygen starved, hydrocarbon fueled fire that will weaken a 90,000 ton high grade steel structure to the point of entire collapse. Previous high-rise building fires around the world had proved this point.

        1. Jim Haygood

          Once I attended a fire test of a transit car floor with Port Authority of NY & NJ engineers, including the chief fire protection officer (guy named Joe K). This was pre-9/11.

          We stacked concrete blocks on top of the floor panels (steel-jacketed plywood) to simulate full passenger load, and cranked up the big gas furnace. Average temp under the floor was around 1,000 F. (a time-temperature curve is specified in the ASTM E-119 test standard).

          After half an hour, thermocouples on top of the floor near the panel joints were starting to heat up a bit. But the integrity of the steel support beams under the floor was never in question. Steel retains about 60% of its strength at 1,000 F., well within the design safety factor.

          Puddles of kerosene on the floor can’t possibly burn as hot, and deliver as much heat, as an enclosed gas furnace blasting for half an hour or more. It’s a fairy tale.

          1. DWD

            The salient point being that the conspiracy theories about structural integrity are just that: conspiracy theories.

            The conspiracy theories about how they used the attacks to gin up an illegal war, deprive people of their constitutionally guaranteed privacy, and subjecting the whole of America to unmitigated bullshit and lies that continue to this day are something else altogether, aren’t they?

            You don’t have to focus on the nonsensical at the cost of the obvious.

          2. Jess

            In my next life I want to be Jim Haygood. Is there any place you haven’t been — Everest? Marianna’s Trench? — or anything you haven’t done, seen, etc?

            Never cease to be amazed at the depth and breadth of your experiences.

          3. bob

            Yanno what also causes heat? Bending.

            Do the math on the forces being applied to the surviving members. Add in the fact that the FUCKING PLANE CRASH scoured all of the fireproofing off the beams in the area of the fire.

            The FUCKING PLANE CRASH also had some force. How was that force absorbed? Heat? Movement? What are the other options?

          1. human

            The towers were built for hurricane force wind loading. The effect of the plane on the structure has been described as that of a knife going into an insect screen. The modular vertical components of the structure were designed to fail individually without damaging the overall integrity. See my reply above for the effect of an entire falling floor.

            1. bob

              what are you smoking?

              “The effect of the plane on the structure has been described as that of a knife going into an insect screen. ”

              It wasn’t a fucking hurricane. It was a fucking plane. Plane= hard. Hurricane= wind. Plane traveling faster than wind, much faster…to begin with…

          2. bob

            Way too obvious!

            You stole my line. It really is just that simple.

            You work for the NWO too? What’s the secret handshake this month?

        2. John k

          I was at the 9/11 museum for the first time a week ago, saw 2-ft x 3-ft x 2-in thick x 60-ft long box columns bent in half, clearly buckled from excessive compressive loads, said to be from area below where plane hit.
          My view is that fire eventually weakened sufficient columns at Impact level, which was at least two floors, maybe three (plus, of course, some columns damaged from impact), that remaining columns were no longer able to support the floors above, and the upper structure then fell.
          The lower floors, of course designed for the dead weight static load, with substantial margin, now must withstand something they were never designed to take, impact.
          Imagine a strong man supporting 100 lbs above his head… Then imagine the same weight falling onto his upraised arms from a height of 30-ft or so above his outstretched hands… This is not the same thing as catching a 100-lb child leaping from the second or third floor, in that case he absorbs some of the child’s energy as they both fall to the ground. If he tried to remain unmoving he would buckle from the impact.
          Temperature… Fire burns at over 3000f, steel loses all strength at under 1000f. The columns would have been insulated, but much insulation would have been stripped when the plane hit. And the planes’ fuel tanks were nearly full, still burning an hour later. Windows out on both sides at multiple floors as evidenced by videos, unlimited oxygen available, further evidenced by the fact the fire raged until the collapse.

          The first goal of a building designed for earthquake is not to be usable after the event but to remain intact long enough to allow occupants to evacuate safely. These buildings took an event they were never designed for and stood up long enough for thousands below the impact to survive. Kudos to the engineers.

          IMO the conspiracy was entirely Saudi.

          1. bob

            I always ask how they would build a building 50 stories high, that could withstand a 40 story building being dropped on it.

            Even 1 second of acceleration due to gravity (freefall) is an unstoppable load. In reality it was probably a nanosecond or few. With the loads on that building, that’s all it would take to start falling.

        3. Gaianne


          Thank you for this.

          Every September we seemed to be deluged with bullshit that physics had already disproven decades ago.

          “Previous high-rise building fires around the world [which did not collapse] had proved this point.”



          1. ambrit

            Yep. When looking anything up about a buildings’ actual structure, ask for the “as built” sketches. I’ve done one or two of those in my “career” in construction.

      1. twonine

        The chart I linked above is likely for tensile strength, not yield strength, although it doesn’t note which. Yield strength is a more linear drop per my old machine design text, and in line with Jim Haygood’s chart.

        1. subgenius

          It is probably worth mentioning that tensile strength is the more important characteristic in steel-reinforced concrete (I sometimes use alkali-resistant glass fibre)

          1. MyLessThanPrimeBeef

            Tensile = Yield strength, according to the first definition of this, from Simple English Wikipedia;

            From Simple Wikipedia:

            Tensile strength is a measurement of the force required to pull something such as rope, wire, or a structural beam to the point where it breaks.

            The tensile strength of a material is the maximum amount of tensile stress that it can take before failure, for example breaking.

            There are three typical definitions of tensile strength:

            Yield strength – The stress a material can withstand without permanent deformation. This is not a sharply defined point. Yield strength is the stress which will cause a permanent deformation of 0.2% of the original dimension.

            Ultimate strength – The maximum stress a material can withstand.

            Breaking strength – The stress coordinate on the stress-strain curve at the point of rupture

    2. bob

      Two things that most don’t get-

      Half, or nearly half of the vertical structural members were cut. They did not exist anymore. The remaining members were then left carrying the weight. Not only that, but they were also supporting a cantilevered building 40 stories high, 70 stories up.

      So, then near half of what remains is in tension, not compression. There are now only 1/4 of the members holding the building up. The other 1/4 is holding the building down, very literally.

      Quick dirty math, but it’s worked explaining it to others. IIRC there were 47 columns, and more in one tower than another were complete severed. They were not able to carry a either a compressive or tensile load. The tensile loading is the result of normal wind loading.

      Holding the building “down” is something most don’t get at all. It’s extremely important in tall buildings.

  19. JohnnyGL

    This thing’s got real legs, it seems. Check out Shaun King’s twitter feed for more details of teams, players, etc. I think I saw 4-5 teams with a handful of players each.

    The cultural importance of the NFL to American society is hard to downplay. Contradictions are being sharpened, and not just in politics. As usual, it doesn’t take much to provoke outrage from the reactionaries in our society. Hillary’s ‘deplorables’ are not happy.

    1. sd

      Do you think a deplorable looks like a yellow Minion in blue overalls? Seems like there’s an opportunity to design a deplorable mascot to go along with despicable Trump….the one caveat is that they have to fit in a basket.

      1. JohnnyGL

        These, of course, aren’t real (unless someone else started them) and I am not joining twitter to make hastags :) But if I were into that sort of thing…


    2. NotTimothyGeithner

      The relative silence is also fascinating. There isn’t a generic “Kapernick” is evil disclaimer.

      Christian fundie, Tony Dungy, seemed exasperated as he tried to paint protesting players as children instead of the high and mighty moralizer he tries to be the rest of the time.

      The “hooded one” said he doesn’t follow the story but thinks Kap is a great qb. The “hooded one” grew up in Annapolis where his old man was the coach, shagging balls for Staubach.

    3. MyLessThanPrimeBeef

      Not sure what he is winning.

      One million dollars is a good start.

      More money by other mega-millionaire professional athletes will be nice and can really get something going. Money isn’t everything, but you can’t do without a lot of it either.

      Perhaps they will also address municipal sweet heart deals with their team owners.

      “We don’t need fancy stadiums, when the money can be better used to help the homeless.”

  20. Pat

    If Donald Trump really is doing Presidential Campaign as performance art, it may turn out that his Doctor’s letter about his awesome health is the most brilliant aspect of it. Call me wild and crazy but I’m beginning to think that item with its sheer obvious level of BS was a fairly brilliant parody of what we have seen and probably will see from Clinton. Of course, he isn’t and that means it is just taking the BS to the nth degree at least until we see the new Clinton release.

    1. fresno dan

      The question really is: Is a vote for Clinton a vote for Tim Kaine???

      Now, the REALLY cynical might conjecture that Clintoon is thinking the BEST meme to save the election for herself is that she spins it that she pulls a William Henry Harrison – don’t worry about voting for Clintoon!!! I’ll only be president for 30 or so days!
      Hey, your not really voting for me
      Your really voting for Kaine!

      Only decades later is the Clinton tomb excavated and it is revealed that she was a Disney animatronic programmed by Goldman Sachs – those “speeches” were really charades to allow the cables to be plugged in so the updated software could be downloaded…

      If the media is in the pocket of the Clintons, why now are we finding out about her “illness” ….hmmmmm….

      AND, Trump could retaliate. “I could drop dead at any moment – A vote for Trump is a vote for Pence…

      1. NotTimothyGeithner

        Timmy! is so awful. As Governor, he blew up mountains, cut taxes on the wealthy, and pushed for those public/private contracts when he wasn’t working again st unions and reproductive rights or being a good lap dog for Obama.

        Mark Warner is the good Senator in that pair believe it or not.

      1. Buttinsky

        The Putin-did-it comments on that article are depressing and laughable. Tomorrow’s story: Putin tripped Hillary on her way to the van.

        Of course, Hillary has been poisoned. But not by some Russian apothecary:

        There is thy gold, worse poison to men’s souls,
        Doing more murders in this loathsome world,
        Than these poor compounds….

        Romeo, Romeo and Juliet

      2. JTMcPhee

        RE: poisoning — gee, who is next in line behind Hillary? I mean, on the Dem side? This whole “political season” is looking more like something out of the Borgia era. And there is no history of one part or another of the CIA poisoning people like Fidel Castro or whatever, and how many parts of the CIA and the other bits of runaway Empire would like Clinton gone so maybe they could slide a Biden into the slot…

  21. Jim Haygood

    Last Friday’s “Fed Groundhog Day,” which smashed stocks on hawkish chatter from J-Yel ‘n the Governors, lasted less than 72 hours.

    Today, The Most Interesting Woman in the World, Lael Brainard, declared that we have to be cautious about raising rates.

    Stocks accordingly are soaring skyward, as if last Friday never happened.

    1. MyLessThanPrimeBeef

      The conspiracy theorist in me thought Friday’s drop was due to insider leaks about a pending Hillary episode, but today we are recovering nicely (though not as fast as hers).

  22. GeorgeM

    Clinton has been having coughing fits since 2009. A quick trip to youtube ends all speculation that this is pneumonia since Friday.

    Anyone interested in the truth of this need only see the fits… over and over and over again.. with dates.

    It’s Parkinsons…. or so says my neighbor – a neurosurgeon… who hates her by the way

    but he is not rabid…. just conservative and unhappy with the Bush/Clinton/Obama crime syndicate

  23. Jim Haygood

    Slot-machine “science”:

    The sugar industry paid scientists in the 1960s to downplay the link between sugar and heart disease and promote saturated fat as the culprit instead.

    The internal sugar industry documents, recently discovered by a researcher at UCSF and published Monday in JAMA Internal Medicine, suggest that five decades of research into the role of nutrition and heart disease may have been largely shaped by the sugar industry.

    A trade group called the Sugar Research Foundation, known today as the Sugar Association, paid three Harvard scientists the equivalent of about $50,000 in today’s dollars to publish a 1967 review of sugar, fat and heart research.

    The studies used in the review were handpicked by the sugar group. The article, published in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine, minimized the link between sugar and heart health and cast aspersions on the role of saturated fat.

    One of the scientists paid by the sugar industry was D. Mark Hegsted, who went on to become the head of nutrition at the USDA, where in 1977 he helped draft the forerunner to the government’s dietary guidelines.

    Shocked? That was decades ago. But today, the sugar industry is STILL paying politicians for ironclad protection from competition:

    Imports of sugar into the United States are governed by tariff-rate quotas (TRQs), which allow a certain quantity of sugar to enter the country under a low tariff [meaning the rest is walled out].

    USDA establishes the annual quota volumes for each federal fiscal year (beginning October 1) and the U.S. Trade Representative allocates the TRQs among countries.

    Buying scientists — profitable
    Buying politicians — priceless

    1. Plenue

      It can go both ways though. The WHO managed to declare glyphosate ‘probably carcinogenic’ by expressly ignoring the substantial evidence to the contrary.

      1. tegnost

        I think that falls under “buying scientists”. There is no global warming and glyphosate is better for you than juice, just like fracking water prevents cavities.

            1. tegnost

              also not sure you understand straw manning, I referred directly to haygoods comment, re buying science, you brought up the ancillary/irrelevant glyphosate.
              Sugar is socially poisonous, at the least, see diabetes
              Image result for straw manning
              “A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.”
              haygood didn’t say anything about glyphosate, it’s relevant to sugar how?

              1. tegnost

                from the link…”Finally, the two bodies looked at different evidence. EFSA assessed some studies conducted by industry groups that were excluded from the IARC analysis. The IARC team looked only at evidence that is in the public domain and available to independent scientists to review, says Kathryn Guyton, a senior toxicologist at the IARC and one of the authors of its glyphosate study2.”
                what’s that? the pro glyphosate used industry science? Say it ain’t so!
                Also…”Firstly, the two bodies were not assessing exactly the same thing. EFSA looked only at glyphosate, whereas IARC looked at both the chemical itself and the products it is used in. EFSA says that some studies have shown genotoxic effects (DNA damage) from products containing glyphosate and some have not, and it is likely that some of these effects are down to other compounds in these products, rather than glyphosate itself.”
                and last but not least..does efsa think glyphosate is safe?”.Not entirely. EFSA revised existing limits on safe daily doses for exposure to glyphosate. It also proposes — for the first time in the European Union — that there should be a limit on how much glyphosate is safe for a person to ingest in a short period of time.”
                like ambrits comment on codes vs. what contractors actually do (there’s the right way, and there’s the way we’re doing it)you’re trusting those pesticide applicators measuring skills and concern for others health more than i do.

                1. JTMcPhee

                  It’s not the main chlorinated pesticides in Agent Orange that fokks us veterans and Vietnamese over, it’s the stuff that gets produced in side reactions, molecules like 2,3,7,8-dibenzodioxins and -dibenzofurans. Which strongly bioaccumulate and kind of hang around forever. As do the other shitbits spewed out by Our Imperial Forces, like depleted uranium with its mix of go-alongs, and so on…

                  Fundamental point is that we humans, taken as a bunch, are pretty much worthless as participants in “The Great Disney Circle of Life…” Not just worthless, but actively “disruptive” and patently destructive. Sugar bad, now FL counties spraying shit to try to “:control” Aeides aegiptii mosquitoes that “carry the Deadly Zika Virus” and thereby kill off all kinds of pollinators. Because middle class, or some shit…

                2. Plenue


                  I’d say doing things like completely ignoring a multi-decade USDA study that found no harmful effects resulted from contact with glyphosate reveals bias and a lack of genuine desire to honestly appraise the evidence. And even in the absence (rather, absent from the WHO review) of evidence that the stuff isn’t harmful, the evidence that it is dangerous that they included was pitiful at best. And this is presumably the best ‘proof’ they could scrounge up.

                  1. tegnost

                    your link is a youtube?
                    science comes in papers
                    but then i’d be able to track the funding, wouldn’t I?
                    and the issue was “buying science”

                    1. Plenue

                      I see you didn’t even watch it.

                      Anyway, rewatching it, I’d forgotten how atrocious the IARC report actually was. At least two of the papers it cites (out of a paltry 6 citations) don’t actually say what it claims they say, and a co-author of one of those papers came out publicly denouncing their misuse of his work.

  24. Plenue

    “Questions for the presidential candidates on nuclear terrorism, proliferation, weapons policy, and energy”

    Can we first stop talking about nuclear terrorism like it’s actually a thing? If no terrorists managed to get the bomb during the deluge of corruption and broken bureaucracy that was the collapse of the USSR (yes, NATO and Pentagon, the Soviet Union also isn’t a thing anymore), then none ever are. No nuclear country, be it Pakistan or anyone else, is dumb enough to hand over a nuke. Can you imagine the witch hunt that would ensue if someone turned a city into a mushroom cloud? Assuming WW3 didn’t just start right then and there. No amount of money would make the certain risk of getting caught worth it.

    All that leaves is a dirty bomb, which is actually a whole lot of effort for something that is no better than an infinitely easier fertilizer bomb.

  25. JSM

    No offense is meant but fewer articles from Ms. Scofield, please, with transparent, dubious, questionable, or propagandistic angles. The article ‘How building design changed after 9/11’ has been written annually for fifteen years.

    “In fact, for years building codes from the American Society of Civil Engineers, the American Institute of Steel Construction and the American Concrete Institute have required structural supports to be designed with high enough ductility to withstand a major earthquake so rare its probability of happening is once every 2,000 years. ”

    It’s unclear how a jetliner is powerful than an earthquake, and how, if such requirements failed to save the WTC towers, preparing for even more powerfuller earthquakes is going to prevent a recurrence of the same.

    This would also go for any articles entitled ‘How the US Can Win the War in Syria’ in which no objectives are articulated, non-evidential articles entitled ‘U.S. Could Pay a High Price for Suing the Saudis,’ any more New Yorker articles, the motives of which are transparently political and actually create disinformation around veritable realities, about ‘Trump and the Truth’, e.g. ‘The Unemployment Rate Hoax,’ etc. I’m sure posting links is largely a thankless job, but if I wanted to I could turn on CNN and ‘learn’ these very things.

    1. Jess

      “In fact, for years building codes from the American Society of Civil Engineers, the American Institute of Steel Construction and the American Concrete Institute have required structural supports to be designed with high enough ductility to withstand a major earthquake so rare its probability of happening is once every 2,000 years.”

      Hate to break it to you, but earthquake forces — seismic events — are considerably different than thermal events. Granted, fire often erupt as a result of severed gas and electric lines caused by an earthquake, but an earthquake is a brief, violent, hard shaking or rolling. A high-rise fire of sustained intensity sits in one place and does its work within a confined setting. In the case of the multiple floors damaged by the impact of the planes in 9-11, that confined setting bore a striking resemblance to a combination blast furnace and chimney. (People tend to forget that skyscrapers tend to create their own wind patterns, in this case well over 500 feet high. Just like air being pumped into a fire by a bellows.

      1. MyLessThanPrimeBeef

        The second order partial differentiation equation* governing structure responding during a dynamic event like an earthquakes shows that the force on the structure is related to its mass.

        The heavier a structure, the bigger force it is subjected to, going through the same quake.

        The force of an impacting plane is same regardless of the building size, all else being equal.

        *(mass x acceleration) + (damping coefficient x velocity) + (stiffness modulus x displacement) = zero.

    1. MyLessThanPrimeBeef

      Get up at sunrise and go to bed at sunset.

      That will reduce our energy consumption by a lot.

      “Why can’t you party in the park during the day? Why must be at midnight?”

  26. pour encourager les autres

    The Committee Against Torture has concluded that the US failed to investigate torture. Under universal-jurisdiction law persons suspected of involvement in systematic and widespread US torture can be prosecuted by 163 UN member nations in which they are found. All states are required to suppress the international crime of torture, and the 124 treaty parties of the Rome Statute must act to prevent impunity for such crimes committed beyond their national boundaries. The Center for Constitutional Rights has already filed cases in Germany, France, Switzerland, Spain, and Canada.

    So it’s open season on CIA torturers. This is going to purge more covert criminals than the family jewels. Whoever is president next year, expect a lot of spooks to retire and live quietly like Klaus Barbie. They won’t dare step outside US borders. There is no statute of limitations. As US standing erodes, the pressure to sacrifice some scapegoats will mount.

  27. VietnamVet

    I agree with all of Anne’s great comments above on Hillary Clinton’s 9-11 fainting episode. The atmosphere feels like 1974 just before Richard Nixon resigned. Except, it is completely reversed. The establishment is protecting Hillary Clinton. They are spinning up a whirlwind. What is frightening is the desperation. It’s like the elite are afraid of something terrible. It can’t be Donald Trump; he is one them. Instead, I presume it has to be that millions of incorrigibles are recognizing the oligarchs’ scams. Globalization is unraveling before their eyes from negative interest rates to Brexit. Turning their world upside down.

  28. robnume

    Having worked in an emergency/trauma center for years, no, I won’t say what I did as I like anonymity, it seems to me that Hillary could likely be suffering from subcortical vascular dementia. Upon a diagnoses of this kind, one can expect to live from 3 to 5 years. If diagnosed in 2012-13, which seems likely given her concussion and brain clot diagnoses, she would now begin to experience a severe physical decline and pneumonia is a frequent cause of death for those suffering from subcortical vascular dementia.

  29. ewmayer

    Re. Improv-da and the weaponized nerds at Palantir, the snark writes itself:

    “Zero title awareness also makes people more approachable,” Eliot Hodges, then a Palantir FDE, wrote in 2012 about the company culture. “I am as comfortable chatting with Dr. Karp, our CEO, as I am talking to the product dev team…

    In describing Karp, the 0-title-aware Mr. Hodges somehow manages to squeeze out no less that 2 titles in 4 words. So much for the denizens of this particular flat-hierarchical hacker-inspired nerdvana all being on a first-name basis with each other, as real hackers would be. F-Society from Mr. Robot, this is not.

    Aside: whenever I come across the name of the odious Mr. Thiel these I can’t help thinking of his creepy vampiric regular-transfusions-of-young-people’s-blood regimen and picturing him wandering the halls with a wheeled IV-tree with several 20somethings dangling from it.

  30. allan

    Mayor’s plan for Seattle’s U District: taller buildings, some affordable housing [Seattle Times]

    Seattle Mayor Ed Murray on Monday unveiled a growth plan for the University District that includes some major zoning changes now headed to the City Council.

    The zoning changes would allow buildings as high as 320 feet in one part of the neighborhood and as high as 240 feet in a few other parts. Murray says the idea is to direct growth in the U District to blocks near the University of Washington campus and the new light-rail station scheduled to open on Brooklyn Avenue Northeast in 2021.

    The UW has been pushing for the neighborhood to grow into a dense “innovation district” for tech startups and workers, while skeptics have expressed concerns about low-income residents, small-business survival and open space. …

    You can’t make an innovation omelette without breaking up some communities.
    Oh those liberal big-city Dems.

  31. Cry Shop

    Class Warfare:

    Breakaway, with about 300 employees, accused Berkshire and Applied of “siphoning” premiums through a web of illegal shell companies, with diverted premiums going to unlicensed out-of-state insurers, the wire agency said.

    The plan amounted to a “reverse Ponzi scheme” where unsuspecting employers expecting to buy affordable policies instead bought costly “reinsurance” requiring them to cover each other’s losses, leaving taxpayers on the hook for shortfalls when too many workers are injured on the job, Breakaway said.

  32. Rosario

    I used to think all the health speculation with Hillary was sexist and bogus until her ordeal Sunday. The pneumonia diagnosis is absolutely bizarre and doesn’t quite line up with her visual symptoms at the 9/11 memorial. Pneumonia was the best her staff could come up with? I guess they think we live in a world without the internet and Youtube. Hillary doesn’t look like she had pneumonia Friday at the fundraiser. The same day she was apparently diagnosed, which implies the first day of treatment when symptoms for bacterial infections are at their absolute worst. She actually looked like she was in her element, bright as rain. In addition, how in the hell do you have a “pneumonia episode”? Apparently it came on real hard Sunday morning (ironically, the time of day when the body is most capable during illness) then magically went away an hour later for her to have a chipper, non-coughing, non-fatigued photo op with a little girl (it was so identity politics staged it was comical).

    I’ve never had pneumonia myself, but I’ve seen my mom get it twice while I was a kid. Both lungs, pretty rough. Constant coughing, chronic fatigue, sick as a dog. She had the “walking pneumonia” as the campaign calls it (you can’t stop working as a single mother). By the way, walking pneumonia is just pneumonia, all the symptoms are still there. Suffice it to say I’m not very convinced. Seems the media, and based on public response, the citizens are though. We all make such terrible detectives.

    Hillary has some health issues but I don’t think they are acute, they are chronic, and, though I don’t like her I believe in Karma in a Bohrian sense and I wish the best for her. That said, this won’t be the last we see her health being an issue before November.

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