2:00PM Water Cooler 1/24/2020

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1. John January 24, 2020 at 2:17 pm

   I started to read Agency and realized that while I had read The Peripheral, I really did not have a good grasp of it. I am re-reading The Peripheral as dinner and holding Agency as dessert. The Peripheral is better than I remember it and Agency is going to be a feast.
   1. ambrit January 24, 2020 at 2:28 pm

      I am bugging my local Library to get a copy of Agency. Strangely, or not, I get a better response to my entreatys from the older library staff.
   2. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 24, 2020 at 2:48 pm

      I found it impossible to identify with any of the figures in Agency, and I miss Flynne. And there is no Flynne equivalent. It’s almost like Gibson has gone over to hard SF.
      1. ambrit January 24, 2020 at 2:59 pm

         Usually, from my experience, true “hard” SF is pedantic in nature. Is Gibson trying to advance an agenda with Agency?
         1. lambert strether January 24, 2020 at 3:21 pm

            Not sure I understand pedantic here. It feels to me like he is glorifying the technical at the expense of everything else. I don’t think Gibson is consciously advancing a political agenda, if that’s what you mean
            1. ambrit January 24, 2020 at 3:54 pm

               Right. I use pedantic in the sense of “to teach,” as in show the Light to the benighted.
               1. Mo's Bike Shop January 24, 2020 at 6:59 pm

                  I absorbed Clarke, Asimov, and Heinlein in precisely my teenaged years entirely for the info dump that came with each story. Or Asimov’s columns. I was thinking ‘Uh oh’ when Lambert said ‘Hard SF’, because I haven’t read any Gibson other than his Nanotech thing and now I might have to reconsider.

                  Be careful kids, a Masters of English can turn most fiction into a busman’s holiday.
                  1. ambrit January 25, 2020 at 1:33 pm

                     Hey, ‘Bussmen’s Holidays’ are the most interesting.
                     What was really interesting about the “Big Three” science fiction writers was the range of viewpoints the readers were exposed to therein. Roughly speaking, and these are my personal ideas, not canon in anyone’s franchise universe, Asimov was a Science First writer, Clarke was more of a Humanist writer, and Heinlein was a Libertarian/Libertine writer. YMMV
               2. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 25, 2020 at 1:53 am

                  Hard SF in that Gibson does seem to have a strong idea of how a real AI might be implemented. If it is hand-waving, it is much more complicated hand-waving than that performed for Rei Toi in Idoru,
                  1. ambrit January 25, 2020 at 1:28 pm

                     Neil Stephenson’s latest book, “Fall” is specifically about the construction of an “artificial reality.” I found it a bit dense going, but to his usual high standards. It continues the theme of ‘uploading’ consciousness. I get the feeling that John W Campbell would have approved of it.
            2. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 25, 2020 at 1:55 am

               > glorifying the technical

               By that, I meant (and did not write) glorifying technical skill sets and those who employ them, typically on a precarious basis.

               (This explains Gibson’s curious union of intelligence community tradecraft and skills typically thought of as technical, Milgrim in Spook Country, another fully rounded character, being a good example.)
               1. ambrit January 25, 2020 at 1:43 pm

                  That is what I consider a weak point in his writing. It displays a meritocrat bias. I can be fruitfully attacked for this attitude, but many of such writers I have encountered seem to discount the role of chance in human endeavours. When one is advancing an agenda, such plotting is useful in that it shows the ideal outcome of whatever process the writer is advocating for. Thus, the initial charge of pedantry. In such cases, the pedantry is legitimate. A point is being raised and buttressed.
                  The other point of relevance to this discussion is that all ‘good’ writers write about things that they know about.
                  1. russell1200 January 27, 2020 at 9:24 am

                     He has at the very front end a discussion of the butterfly effect.

                     And he also (in the part that relates to the follow up on “Peripheral”) has what basically looks an awful lot like the implementation of a conspiracy by the be-knighted technocrats.

                     So I think he is aware of a variety of possible ways to reach an outcome.

                     But yes, he does love his techno people doing cool stuff.
         2. Odysseus January 27, 2020 at 12:27 pm

            “hard” SF is that which requires no technology which is known to be impossible. That covers a very large range of storytelling styles and methods.

            Pedantry is not required, though if it is commonplace it might be a defense mechanism on the part of the authors or some kind of shared worldview which is not explicitly stated.
   3. JohnnySacks January 24, 2020 at 3:50 pm

      Found myself letting too much go by on the first pass when I didn’t have a good grasp on it. Reading it a second time a couple years later was very rewarding. Sorry to hear the negative reviews of Agency, not that it means I won’t be reading it.
      1. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 25, 2020 at 1:50 am

         Agency is very stylish and fast-moving; it’s essentially a giant chase scene with an AI as a MacGuffin structurally, but not narratively. It is an interesting book, still worth reading. It feels anomalous to me, for reasons I have yet to pin down (see comment on tactility here). Incidentally, I called this in 2017:

         Gibson has a real gift for creating incorruptibly spunky, candid, and honorable working class and coolly perceptive professional women as rounded characters (lethal mercenary and working girl Molly in Neuromancer, bicycle messenger Chevette Washington in All Tomorrow’s Parties, former rock-and-roll musician and journalist Hollis Henry in Spook Country[1], and consultant Cayce Pollard in Pattern Recognition). “Verity,” then, verges dangerously on self-parody.

         (And, of course, Flynn.) Verity reads like a cypher, a Jamesian ficelle, but structurally she is the protagonist in Agency. Maybe that’s the point. I don’t know. (That I picked “cypher,” there…).
2. petal January 24, 2020 at 2:17 pm

   BR, that tree is beautiful! Wow!

   I posted the DM article on Warren’s response to that Iowa dad as a “She could’ve handled that differently” thing as opposed to posting it to get a discussion going on student loan debt. She could’ve said “Gee, I’m really sorry. That stinks, I know it’s a lot of money and sacrifice on your part, etc etc.” instead of flippantly saying “Of course not”. It looks bad, and it’s going to play bad. Let’s keep that selfie line going, though. I filed it in my “another mis-step by Warren” file. That’s all.
   1. grayslady January 24, 2020 at 2:33 pm

      I agree. The reason Elizabeth Warren appears to have a “glass jaw” is that she is so politically tone deaf; consequently, she always seems surprised when her remarks don’t land the way she thinks they will. She also has another problem, and that is that all her programs are means-tested, or only partially subsidized, whereas Bernie’s programs are universal and comprehensive. I really wish the corporate press would stop calling her progressive, because she isn’t progressive. She’s a virtue signaller.
   2. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 24, 2020 at 2:54 pm

      I think it’s a real issue. Can’t you hear Trump deploying “deadbeats” vs. “hard-working Americans”?
      1. ambrit January 24, 2020 at 3:06 pm

         Easy. The theme of “Welfare Cadillacs” goes way back in the history of right wing talking points.
         Wiki on the ‘real’ Cadillac: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_la_Mothe_Cadillac
         He appears to be an appropriate totem figure for the American Century. Self made, a bit shady in his dealings, and not averse to a bit of self promotion.
         1. richard January 24, 2020 at 10:53 pm

            lol totem
            i’ve known more than a few such figures, well said
            1. ambrit January 25, 2020 at 1:47 pm

               I’ve known a lot of ‘them’ too. They inhabit every level in the society.
      2. petal January 24, 2020 at 3:07 pm

         Absolutely, it is. It’s like saying to your opponent “Here, let me stick that giant target on my back for you.” It stinks of someone who has plenty of money and hasn’t had to worry about being able to pay for anything. Completely out of touch. She can’t even fake it. Wouldn’t have been that hard.
         1. Mo's Bike Shop January 24, 2020 at 7:19 pm

            “Of course not”

            Agree, How about, ‘you will have a society better able to care for you in your old age because its citizens aren’t saddled with debt?’ That’s off the top of my head.

            It’s a crab-bucket question, and she got trapped by it.
            1. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 25, 2020 at 2:00 am

               > It’s a crab-bucket question

               The thing is, we have a crab-bucket society.
               1. ambrit January 25, 2020 at 1:48 pm

                  “Crab Bucket Shop” The new ‘normal’ in finance.
      3. Calypso Facto January 24, 2020 at 3:22 pm

         I believe the reason why this is an issue is in the fact that some people gave up something in order to pay for tuition/pay off the debt. They followed ‘the rules’, it may have cost them quite a lot in either low-grade or higher ongoing money stress, but they did it anyway, because those were the rules. Now someone comes along and says, The rules were unfair all along! The debt is unethical so it will be expunged, and state college will be tuition-free! But what about the very real, tangible things that person gave up (time, money, altered life paths for themselves or their family) because they followed the rules?

         The only way out of this trap is to offer the person who followed the old unjust rules something in exchange. It can’t ‘just’ be free state school because that will not benefit everyone who gave up something under the old system. If they presented the student loan debt jubilee as a straight up Citizens Bailout instead of tied to a single specific type of debt, they could also cancel student (and medical, and consumer credit) debt as well if they wanted. Some would grumble but they would not turn down the offer to remove themselves from other debt. And if they really were the type of person who had done whatever they needed to and got lucky enough to still stay out of punitive debt, well then they get a massive one-time payment thanking them for their struggle.
         1. flora January 24, 2020 at 3:33 pm

            Making student debt like most other debt dischargable in bankruptcy would be a good place to start. Biden made sure formerly dischargable student loan debt was made non-dischargable in the 2005 BAPCPA bill.

            “The 2005 Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act (BAPCPA) was meant, on paper, to prevent people from abusing Chapter 7 bankruptcy. It accomplished that through means testing, making it harder for people to declare Chapter 7 bankruptcy versus Chapter 13. If a person’s income exceeds a certain threshold, they’re ineligible for declaring Chapter 7. The bill also required people to complete a credit counseling course no more than 180 days before they declare bankruptcy. It also limits the kinds of debt a person can discharge through bankruptcy: If they use a credit card to spend too much money on “luxury goods” or withdraw too much in cash advances, that credit line can’t be erased. And, gallingly, the bill made it completely impossible to discharge student loan debt. It may very well be the single piece of legislation most responsible for putting the U.S. in the current student debt crisis. [my emphasis]

            “Biden was one of the bill’s major Democratic champions, and he fought for its passage from his position on the Senate Judiciary Committee. ….”

            https://www.gq.com/story/joe-biden-bankruptcy-bill
            1. Fiery Hunt January 24, 2020 at 4:46 pm

               Ding, ding, ding!
         2. Bill Carson January 24, 2020 at 4:43 pm

            One of my qualms over the push to cancel SL debt is that it doesn’t address the underlying problem, which is the high cost of higher education.

            You know what I think is not fair? How ridiculously expensive tuition has gotten, even at public universities, because the states have cut funding again and again, and the federal government has decided to fund college education through lending. The middle class views the FAFSA as a loan application. That’s all it is. “Here’s your financial aid—LOANS!!”

            I graduated college in 1990 when tuition was reasonable. It was much higher than my parents had paid in the 60’s, when public colleges were very close to tuition-free, but my undergrad tuition was reasonable, and I attended five years of private college and graduated with a four-figure debt.

            When my oldest child started college in 2013, tuition and boarding at her flagship public university was $30,000/yr. And she wanted to be (and now is) a public school teacher.

            So if we want to talk about unfair, let’s talk about how grandpa and grandma went to college for free, but aren’t willing for the same rules to apply to their progeny.
            1. Grant January 24, 2020 at 5:04 pm

               It became unaffordable at the individual level, at least in part, because public support for education was massively drawn down, and the costs were then offloaded onto individuals. When the public sector was paying the costs, it controlled the costs in ways isolated individual consumers could not. It is similar to single payer or the VA being able to use its economies of scale to bargain down the price of drugs and being able to establish the costs of services. When individuals buy drugs, they don’t have the power to do anything but accept what the market says those drugs cost. This is similar. Those in power didn’t have to transfer the costs from the public sector to families, but they did, and the rise in the costs of education have far outpaced wage growth for most people for some time now.

               I personally think that focusing on writing down various types of debt is a far better argument than the, “I paid it and suffered, so you should too” argument. We should write down third world debt. We should write down mortgage debt to the ability to pay. We should eliminate medical debt, and we should eliminate student loan debt. Seems that Michael Hudson has said a thing or two about this.
               1. Bill Carson January 24, 2020 at 6:14 pm

                  You’re exactly right. The biggest flaw in this country is the emphasis on the heresy of rugged individualism, which says that each person has to carry his own weight. (Which is fine if all people were literally created equal.)

                  We are seeing more and more of the shift from “common good” to “individualism.” Examples—

                  Toll lanes—“the people who drive on the freeway should pay for the freeway.”

                  College—“I didn’t go to college, why should I pay taxes to pay for your kid to go to college?”

                  K-12 Education—“I don’t have kids, why should I pay for your twelve kids to get an education?”

                  And I could go on and on and on.

                  That’s why we’ve got to get back to the country (MAGA) that we used to be, back when we valued and promoted the common good and helped each other. That’s why Bernie’s campaign slogan is so brilliant—-“Not me, Us!”
            2. Felix_47 January 26, 2020 at 5:28 am

               I went to Junior College in California. I was somewhat shocked at the situation with debt. The college counselor said that the loans were government backed but they went through commercial banks. The loan covers living expenses very broadly to include child care, car payment for some pretty nice cars, insurance and on and on. The lady kept asking me if I wanted more money for thing. Stupidly I wanted only tuition money and I worked at a side job and lived cheap. Many of my classmates were going to school because that was a way they could pay rent in a nice place and take care of their kids since child support is rare in America and when they get it it is minimal. Their attitude was kind of like if they don’t pay back what can the government do? I’ll never need credit anyway because I will never be able to buy a house. I am no expert but it seems the real culprit is the federal government for guaranteeing these loans. I assume when the loan becomes non collectible, and given what people earn and usury laws, most all of these loans are essentially uncollectable Uncle Sam sends a check to the bank and the debt just sits there collecting compound interest on paper. Since my classmates are never going to buy a house on their own they don’t care about their credit. It is kind of like IRS debt. If you don’t pay it long enough you can do an offer in compromise and get a huge discount. My ex wife did exactly that. I thought after that why does anyone pay taxes….just don’t pay for five years and pay a minimal monthly payment from your salary at Starbucks or Amazon. It seems only fools pay their bills. In any event it would seem wise for the Federal Government to just wipe out all the student debt and stop guaranteeing loans. Tuition would drop for sure. People could rebuild their credit and have hope and eventually buy a house and have the American dream. Could some NC commenter explain this to me?
         3. Grant January 24, 2020 at 4:57 pm

            Is this logic extended to everything else then? Healthcare drives half a million into bankruptcy a year, kills as many as 45,000 a year. Should everyone that lost a house or money because of this monstrous healthcare system then get reimbursed before we get to single payer? The EPA says a human life is worth about six million dollars. How many of the families of the hundreds of thousands of people that died in the healthcare system over the last decade be paid for the value of the life of their loved one before we even consider single payer? And I assume then, using your logic, you are in favor of reparations for the decedents of slaves? Many of the slaves played by the rules, didn’t they? They were property and they didn’t try to escape. Should we not have ended slavery because of the suffering of those that were forced into slavery? Should we have not ended it until those people were paid for their suffering? How about all of the people thrown in jail because of the drug war? Should they be paid for their lives being ruined before we stop ruining more lives with the drug war? Maybe get angry at the people that created these stupid policies and not those trying to undo the damage they caused.

            I, by the way, don’t own a home but was fully supportive of the debt write down that home owners were supposed to get when the crash happened, was supposed to be a condition for bailing out financial capital. Too bad those in power did nothing for them. I also am not a citizen of a developing or underdeveloped country, but I am also very much in favor of cancelling the horrific and crushing debt forced on poor countries. But, I guess if they “played by the rules” (the rules of course were created by the people that forced them into debt and profited off that debt), screw the developing and developed countries from here until eternity. Why should they not pay crushing debt? Their grandparents did and they “played by the rules”.

            This debate illustrates everything wrong about this country and the disgusting mindset many people hold onto. I suffered because of a corrupt and unjust system and because of that, so should you.
            1. Calypso Facto January 24, 2020 at 5:33 pm

               I neither went to traditional university nor own a home – I could afford neither. And this isn’t my ‘disgusting’ worldview, I’m offering a suggestion and a possible solution for this stupid political trap being laid using the same framework already being utilized by the Sanders campaign. There are already offers to expunge parts of different kinds of debt, and to bring down the cost of college. A lot of people – sounds like you included – are convinced to support Sanders’ position by simply being the ‘better’ or more giving party when presented the opportunity, but some people simply aren’t willing to vote based on feeling. They need direct compensation. The guy who interrupted Warren sounds like that type.
               1. Grant January 24, 2020 at 6:03 pm

                  Who said anything about feelings and emotion? I didn’t just give a moral argument. I referenced real world impacts of the policies those in power have put in place. I am asking, if that is the logic, how we are supposed to change a corrupt, inequitable, and destructive economic and political system? Lots of people are suffering in this society because of a wide range of policies. Their suffering shouldn’t be used as a justification to continue with those policies. And if this is their logic, then they would have had to oppose ever ending slavery, among other things, in the past. I would ask him if his argument could be generalized and give examples. If not, what makes this different?

                  I don’t think it is just an academic discussion. Many of the changes we need will not benefit everyone and if some oppose a policy simply because it doesn’t benefit them, what can anyone say to them? I oppose the state funding illegal wars and the Fed giving tons of free money to banks. I can’t stop it though myself. I can organize around issues and support politicians that will change that. Some people will simply not agree. I think the best bet, however, is to not just think of this one issue in isolation but to put it in a broader context. I would also try to convince people to focus more on those that put that man in that position. It didn’t have to be that way, just as we didn’t have to throw people in jail for non violent drug offenses.
                  1. Calypso Facto January 24, 2020 at 6:31 pm

                     is ‘Paris worth a mass’? I’m suggesting we compensate EVERYONE who suffered in any way financially under the last ~40 years, so universal concrete material benefits, so that the argument that giving a ‘huge benefit’ to some people but not everyone is completely neutralized. If this is done in conjunction with bringing the bankers/creditors/corporations/defense to heel then there should not be an inflationary gain from writing everyone a check (“Citizen’s Bailout”) for 100k(?), with which everyone can then wipe out their debts. Or they could break the banks first and then issue the bailout so it doesn’t just paper their pockets, whatever; my point is that we’re already invoking MMT to solve parts of this and other problems, it can be helpful here as well.

                     (This is just a basic idea so please do not jump down my throat about how to account for other types of debt or those who have more than 100k or the specifics of breaking the creditors, above my pay grade as we say around here)

                     Many of the changes we need will not benefit everyone

                     I think people should be able to gracefully swallow their own financial losses when the rules change but a lot of people don’t share my belief. Those people, as angry as they make me, are still deserving of some form of compensation from the horrors of the last 40 years. Another commenter below mentioned Steve Keen’s “A Modern Jubilee”, who mentions this same concept. I think Paris is worth a mass, or in this case, the jerks who would hold back student debt jubilee are worth ‘something of equal value’ to ensure everyone gets affordable college. The angry guy said Warren’s plan would ‘screw him’ because of everything he already paid. If money is already going to be spun out for a GND/JG, if it was spun out for the bankers a decade ago, then just offer to pay him back in some direct form.
                     1. Grant January 24, 2020 at 7:27 pm

                        I get where you are coming from, but I think that people like this are fundamentally selfish and don’t care to think about much of anything I said. The original injustice was the system that was created that forced that guy to go into debt to pay for his daughter’s education. I wonder if he voted for politicians that created that system. I would guess, given what he said, he did. No public policy benefits everyone, but I can see some logic of giving some money to those that recently paid back student loan debt (although that too can be complicated). They were victims of the system too, so maybe Bernie has to think about that (I don’t believe Warren is serious about this and her plan is means tested to hell and overly complex anyway).

                        But, HE gave a moral reason for opposing this policy, and I don’t agree with his logic. If we are to evoke a moral argument, what about the immorality of the system that results in such massive amounts of debt, a system where the costs of education so far outpace wage growth and a system that doesn’t produce good enough jobs for most to ever pay that debt back? I am not as indifferent to his particular situation as he appears to be to those being crushed by this system. His perceived injustice isn’t the only thing we should consider. If he did vote for politicians that created this monstrosity, it would be nice if there was some self-reflection. Those policies were a choice, not a necessity, as those knowledgeable of MMT realize. Maybe he doesn’t know some of that stuff, and we can help to foster that discussion. But, people have to be open to re-examining their voting choices. In my experience, most of the people that don’t really care about anyone but themselves will not do so. I have made a bunch of comments, so I will leave my comments here.
                        1. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 25, 2020 at 3:37 am

                           > think that people like this are fundamentally selfish and don’t care to think about much of anything I said.

                           So? Do you want their votes?

                           [ ] yes

                           [ ] no
                     2. meeps January 25, 2020 at 2:24 am

                        Supposing one adopts the position that those who suffered the last 40 years should be compensated–an ideal outcome since most of us suffered, I still can’t fathom arriving at just recompense. Because this isn’t only about the price of an education. It’s that homes were stolen and their prices re-inflated. It’s the high price of not having healthcare. It’s that earnings aren’t enough to pay for these things and still save for retirement, etc.

                        Coming nearer to justice will require universal, concrete material benefits going forward. There will, of course, be the insatiable types; there are some forms of need that can’t be fulfilled materially. The rest may need convincing that they’ll derive a benefit from others’ jubilees and new social policies, however nebulous those might seem right now. Maybe fewer of us would be murdered at concerts by people who lost their minds in a world with no social supports. I’m just saying there are forms of compensation that are hard to appreciate but are just as potent as the financials. They are related.

                        The task at hand, in my opinion, is to get people to think what those might be.
                        1. Calypso Facto January 25, 2020 at 10:22 pm

                           There will, of course, be the insatiable types

                           No individual, no matter how insatiable, can waste more money that was already wasted by the military and the banksters and the corporations paying negative tax for decades.
            2. drumlin woodchuckles January 24, 2020 at 5:51 pm

               I believe that attitude is called dog-in-the-manger, and the way to counter it would be some very aggressive and effective dog-in-the-manger-shaming.
               1. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 25, 2020 at 3:39 am

                  > shaming

                  Because shaming has been demonstrably effective at the ballot box?
            3. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 25, 2020 at 3:35 am

               > Is this logic extended to everything else then?

               This debate reminds me of the debate last week over whether Sanders should have “rebuked,” as we say in the Beltway, Zephyr Teachout for writing, correctly, that Biden was corrupt. Some made it a moral question, and as such an indicator of character issues for Sanders. Others made it a political question, and as such an indicator of sound strategic judgment on Sanders’ part (albeit created by administrative failings). Since I was of the latter view, I will cheerfully award myself The Laurel of Proper Augury™, as evidenced by today’s tweet about Zephyr Teachout.

               That said, I don’t think it’s a question of logic at all. It’s a question of beliefs about the world, and after that a question of beliefs about debt, justice, and forgiveness. Following that, it’s a question of whether such beliefs can be changed. My guess is no. Therefore, we should react to the video of Warren and her interlocutor by (a) not shaming the interlocutor and (b) realizing that if Warren, policy wonk, hasn’t thought this through, than probably nobody else has either. In other words, that video is a big clanging alarm bell on the debt forgiveness issue, and should be treated as such.* As with the Teachout controversy, moralizing conceals rather than reveals.

               My perspective is that all those caught up in a system of usury that should never have existed should be made whole. That includes both those whose lives (and credit ratings) were wrecked by debt, and those who paid their debt while incurring significant opportunity costs that they should never have had to incur.

               * One imagines the split-screen Trump — or Klobuchar? — ad of the deadbeat, on the left-side, and the virtuous citizen, on the right. It’s no good dunking on it!
         4. Jeremy Grimm January 24, 2020 at 6:51 pm

            How about tax credits?
            1. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 25, 2020 at 3:40 am

               Man, I’m hoping this is irony….

               Also, you forgot something: “Means-tested tax credits.” Fixed it for ya
         5. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 25, 2020 at 3:20 am

            > The only way out of this trap is to offer the person who followed the old unjust rules something in exchange

            I strongly agree. One doesn’t defuse resentment by dunking on those who feel it.
            1. Calypso Facto January 25, 2020 at 11:10 am

               Yep. Shaming is not a viable political strategy. It only works in a community with social bonds, which were destroyed a while ago (and we need to repair).
      4. JohnnyGL January 24, 2020 at 3:26 pm

         It’s got potential, certainly. I won’t be surprised if he tests out a few lines like that at his rallies. But will it land with people who aren’t ALREADY in the trump camp?

         Student loans seem to be borne by everyone, everywhere in this country. I graduated in 2001 with about $60K and people would look at me in horror about how much it was. Now, 20 years later, people don’t even bat an eyelash at a figure like that.

         Plus, a lot of the people who don’t have any….older, richer people….they’ve got kids who have loans or will have loans soon.
         1. ambrit January 24, 2020 at 4:11 pm

            Student loan debt is best if viewed in concert with the increased credentialization of “average” occupations. Commenters have mentioned in the past where tasks now requiring degrees were apprenticeship level jobs in the past. So, the double whammy is that, to get a “decent” job, one needs to take on student loan debt. To pay off the debt, one needs a higher paying credentialed job. Big vicious circle jerk.
            Perversely enough, I was one of those people from an earlier age who could afford to not graduate. I paid off my small loan balances out of, even for then, meagre wages. Now, students, if they discover that they have made a big mistake in their choice of professions, or callings, if you will, are seriously stuck in their paths of study. So, another unanticipated(?) side effect of the process. A new form of caste system is developing.
            1. Off The Street January 24, 2020 at 5:41 pm

               Not a bug!
               They saw Paree but we really insisted that they stay down on the farm.
               What better way to pen in the herd than by phony, expensive credentialism? Try enserfdom 3.0, with voluntary self-monitoring and reporting through Social Medea.
            2. montanamaven January 24, 2020 at 6:00 pm

               College has become a racket. Well, it’s probably been one for a long time, but now it’s a scam. Colleges should make the loans to students themselves and carry the cost of a person defaulting. Then if it’s their dime and not the tax payers, then maybe they would fire most of the administrators and stop building luxury dorms wih spas. Just offer the basics. Bet tuition would be really affordable. Guilds and apprenticeships are the way to go for most professions. We don’t need these letters after our names. And, yes, repeal the bankruptcy bill . Horrible. And restore the Usury laws.
               Don’t get me started.
               1. Jeremy Grimm January 24, 2020 at 6:58 pm

                  Colleges and Universities should be places of learning and discovery. We should not lose the knowledge of so many after making education a process for generating Corporate employees. Our future depends on imagination. Imagination is not shared equally with intelligence. To craft our tomorrow we must find ways to capture the flights of imagination and the insights of intelligence and combine them. That is not done in this present world.
      5. Mo's Bike Shop January 24, 2020 at 8:24 pm

         Biden, taking inspiration from the ACA, triangulates by proposing that every 18-year-old, regardless of their race, color, or creed, must take on a $120,000 loan and send it on to the college of their choice, regardless of their ability to qualify or attend. With $3000 out-of-pocket application fee.
   3. carl January 24, 2020 at 3:00 pm

      She just seems unprepared to handle stuff like this. OTOH, Bernie exhibits empathy all the damn time.
      1. ambrit January 24, 2020 at 3:10 pm

         So, as per the Rovian Strategy, “they” will attack him on this very point.
         I can see a very strong “Rugged Individualist” narrative propagated over the coming campaign months by the right wing. [Alas, the ‘right wing’ now encompasses both legacy parties. Vidal was absolutely correct.]
         1. FluffytheObeseCat January 24, 2020 at 4:22 pm

            “Bernie exhibits empathy all the damn time.”

            “So, as per the Rovian Strategy, “they” will attack him on this very point.”

            That will backfire I think. Sanders knows how to laugh at them in public. That swift, tight half-grin he gets when he looks down at the podium in order not to completely unleash his contempt on them……. you’ve all seen it.

            The Clinton Democrats and Trump Republicans may have some limited success with attacks that re-iterate the “impossible!” idea. Where over and over again the attacker claims we can’t afford to do even half of what Sanders promotes. However, at this point even that is a weak gambit; we’ve been able to afford everything else under the sun o’er these past 2 decades, and people know it.

            If Sanders can throw a Hail Mary pass and secure the Democrat nomination, Trump is in trouble. He will have massive donations and will be able to flood the media with flag-wrapped, bellicose horsecrap, but that might not save him. His best gambit is more bloating of the FIRE sector in order to keep investors pumped up and voting Republican, Ueber Alles.

            Trump will never debate Sanders. He’ll come up with some pompous, ‘tough-guy’ assertion about why…….. but it will be entirely driven by his need to avoid looking like the snotty little heel that he is. That’s every hollow braggart’s main skill.
            1. ambrit January 24, 2020 at 5:35 pm

               At this point, Trump is not Sander’s main worry. The DNC is.
               Phyllis, last night, wondered aloud if the DNC might void the results of the Democrat Party primary elections if Sanders wins them. Use something like the “excuse” that the primary votes are illegitimate because of “RussiaRussiaRussia” etc.
               This script almost writes itself:
               “We have, with the able help of Crowdstrike, uncovered massive vote manipulation in the XXXXX state primary. Thus, as guardians of every American’s right to have his and her wishes honoured, we are voiding this illegitimate result and allowing the State Party to vote for the people.”
               Then, on to the National Convention and the Unity Candidate! Huzzah!
               1. flora January 24, 2020 at 6:07 pm

                  russiarussiarussia, indeed. I mean, Sanders took $500,000 to give a speech in Moscow in 2010 and… what? … he didn’t?… it was who? … Ohh, well that’s different. Nevermind. /s

                  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5009373/FBI-surprised-Bill-Clinton-took-500-000-Russia.html

                  “Huzzah!” heh.
               2. pretzelattack January 24, 2020 at 6:12 pm

                  i am very afraid of this happening. from what i understand the dnc’s lawyers have already argued in court that the dnc has the right to do something like this.
                  1. Annieb January 24, 2020 at 9:01 pm

                     Yes indeed. And you can read about the entire court case in Jared Beck’s book “What Happened to Bernie Sanders.” Beck sued the DNC for collusion and fraud in the 2016 primary. Unfortunately, he lost. But the judge had good things to say about Beck’s case.
                     1. o4amuse January 25, 2020 at 3:11 am

                        I was a party to the suit which was dismissed and have just been notified by the Becks that they haven’t given up and are now dealing with the Supreme Court itself directly in a process known as a Petition for Certiorari. To quote Elizabeth Lee Beck, however:

                        “You may ask now, what are the odds that the Supreme Court will grant the Petition? The answer is, VERY VERY VERY LOW. They are pickier in choosing cases than a toddler with a plate of vegetables.”

                        Stay tuned!
                        1. ambrit January 25, 2020 at 1:54 pm

                           Good news!
            2. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 25, 2020 at 3:42 am

               > That swift, tight half-grin he gets when he looks down at the podium in order not to completely unleash his contempt on them……. you’ve all seen it.

               Hah! Seen it, never had it categorized.
   4. Grant January 24, 2020 at 4:01 pm

      To me, this is just another right wing justification to do nothing about any of our structural issues. We at one point ended slavery, and yet many people at the time were forced into slavery. Should we night have ended slavery because others had to suffer? Should we not end the drug war because people were thrown in jail for non-violent drug related offenses? When you have policies that were created by corrupt politicians and ideologues, and those policies negatively impacted people, those horrible policy choices shouldn’t essentially lock us into damaging policies indefinitely just because they caused misery in the past. Could a small amount of money go to people that paid off student loans within the last number of years or something? Sure, maybe. But, using the unnecessary pain caused by rotten policies doesn’t then justify continuing that pain and those policies indefinitely. It’s a really weird argument, and it will appeal to individualists that don’t have a social consciousness to begin with. The same people will almost certainly complain about single payer because it would be money the state gives to people that they don’t think “deserve” it. It is, from my vantage point, misplaced anger. Be angry at the politicians that forced him to pay for student loan debt, not those trying to remove that rotten system. Warren would be a bad general election candidate.
      1. Monty January 24, 2020 at 5:52 pm

         It’s not a question of what you or I think should be done. Even though you do make a lot of sense. It’s really a question of what a large enough group of elected officials think we ought to do about the matter. If you lead with a divisive policy, that’s easy to paint as unfair, you’re not going to get as many of your squad into a place they can help you with your goals.
         1. Grant January 24, 2020 at 6:21 pm

            But I don’t assume they can prove writing off the debt is unfair. Decades ago, education was not as expensive, student loan debt was not this massive and many states paid for higher education. Wages were also higher relative to the costs of housing and education. It was infair to change that and to create this nightmare of a situation in the first place. Writing off the debt and making higher education publicly funded would in many ways return us to a place we once were at. The injustice was the neoliberal privatization and individualization of these costs in the first place.

            Again, the third world didn’t have to be stuck with crushing debt. It wasn’t written in the stars. There were alternatives. But, powerful interests decided to not only force them into debt but to also make it impossible to ever get out of that debt. The banks that make the money off that debt might complain, and some developing countries that paid off their debt might find it unfair (Cuba has spoken out strongly on the issue even though it doesn’t impact Cuba), but writing off the debt is reversing an injustice, not creating one. I don’t accept that framing. I see the debt write off as trying to deal with an injustice, I don’t agree that it itself is the injustice. And I didn’t force that man to be in that horrible position. It isn’t impossible that he voted for someone that did.
            1. Monty January 24, 2020 at 7:28 pm

               Don’t think for a minute that your opponents are rational or logical. They are generally profoundly ignorant and emotionally driven. Their vote counts just as much as yours. My best solution is to try to offer something that can achieve the same end but is something they (and everyone else) will like, instead of something they will hate.
   5. False Solace January 24, 2020 at 5:57 pm

      Yeah Bernie has the perfect answer to this. From October 22:

      I want you all to take a look around, and find someone you don’t know. Maybe somebody who doesn’t look kinda like you, maybe somebody who might be of a different religion than you, maybe they come from a different country. My question now to you, is are you willing to fight for that person, who you don’t even know, as much as you’re willing to fight for yourself?

      Are you willing to stand together to fight for people who are struggling economically in this country? Are you willing to fight for young people drowning in student debt, even if you are not? Are you willing to fight to insure that every American has healthcare as a human right, even if you have good healthcare? Are you willing to fight for frightened immigrant neighbors, even if you are native born? Are you willing to fight for a future for generations of people who have not yet even been born, but are entitled to live on a planet that is healthy and habitable?

      Fight For Someone You Don’t Know
      1. Fiery Hunt January 24, 2020 at 7:11 pm

         Exactly right. Exactly right.

         The sticky widget part comes when we ask…

         Are you willing to fight for the guy in Iowa who did everything right and paid so much more than his neighbor did for an education for his kids?

         At least, maybe we can give him a nod of understanding and appeal to his better nature? Maybe explain that his daughter won’t have to make the same sacrifices. That’s the way to get over the “I’m getting screwed!” bitterness.

         Everybody in, nobody out.
         1. Mo's Bike Shop January 24, 2020 at 7:40 pm

            Well I’m wondering if Bernie hasn’t actually fielded this one already. There’s a lot of blah blah that never makes the news.

            Did emancipation screw over slaves who bought their freedom? Did escaped slaves insult those who worked their way to manumission?

            I had to be polite to asshole Policemen, am I cheated if they start acting like professional civil servants?
            1. NotTimothyGeithner January 25, 2020 at 9:34 am

               Sanders has a response of sorts. The problem with many issues is the primary beneficiaries ignore people who suffered through or won’t be affected. Sanders isn’t running on a signature policy issue besides Medicare4All which the ilk of Biden are trying to attack as being unfair to people with “good” insurance.

               Sanders keeps going. It’s very hard for anyone outside of Mike Bloomberg to not see the prospects for tangible material gain in a successful Sanders’ presidency. Obama basically went into retirement mode after ACA which provided immediate benefits to a few, and this was one of the problems. He simply stopped.

               The usual GOP arguments will be deployed. College debt forgiveness isn’t the end goal but a step along the way. This is the counter. Republicans will still whine and reveal themselves in the end, so they won’t matter.
         2. ambrit January 24, 2020 at 8:03 pm

            Student loan clawback? Maybe claw back the interest on the “loan?” Something to give the appearance of balance.
         3. mle detroit January 24, 2020 at 10:26 pm

            Fiery, you’re making a good point. I knew a woman years ago who discussed the status of women in the company with the (male, of course) CEO of a Big 3 auto maker. Put in terms of “what if your wife” got blank looks, because of course his wife had done very well being homemaker and hostess. But “about your daughter” (she had a white-collar job) got his attention and interest.
3. Carolinian January 24, 2020 at 2:26 pm

   Impeachment

   https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2020/01/trump-impeachment-is-the-synonym-for-excruciatingly-tedious-by-larry.html

   Funny!
   1. Off The Street January 24, 2020 at 5:46 pm

      Impreachment Theatre, down the street from the Kabuki Club. Captive audiences a specialty.
   2. Mo's Bike Shop January 24, 2020 at 8:04 pm

      The Trump Impeachment is the Group Project from Hell. Everyone averting their eyes and just turning their requirement in. No Sacrificial Grade Geek to try and shove the score to ‘C’. Everyone agrees it should be presented by the idiot with all the ideas in a vain hope for schadenfreude.

      This impeachment case against Trump is hampered by the absence of sex and the presence fat ugly people.

      I can’t help but feel that’s a sleight to Denny Hastert’s gravitas.
4. ambrit January 24, 2020 at 2:30 pm

   Zeitgeist Watch item.
   I just got an e-mail ‘ad’ from an online emporium I have shopped at in the past for “Coronavirus Prevention and Safety Products.”
5. shinola January 24, 2020 at 2:40 pm

   “Adam Schiff: ‘Because right matters. And the truth matters. Otherwise, we are lost.”

   Vietnam? Iraqi WMD? – We (the Good Ol’ USA) were lost quite some time ago.
   1. carl January 24, 2020 at 3:01 pm

      How about 18 years of lies about Afganistan? Gotta be a record of some kind.
      1. ambrit January 24, 2020 at 3:13 pm

         That actually compares well with the American Occupation of the Philippines (1898 – 1946.) Afghanistan only has thirty years to go.
         1. Milton January 24, 2020 at 5:07 pm

            Perfect segue to one of many untold horrors perpetrated by the country that loves freedom more than humanity itself.
            The massacre at Bud Dajo, Philippines:
            https://original.antiwar.com/danny_sjursen/2019/09/30/a-picture-of-a-war-crime-is-worth-a-thousand-words/
            1. chuckster January 24, 2020 at 5:56 pm

               Adam Schiff and the Democrats talking about “right” and “the truth” is like having the local whorehouse sponsor a float in the Abstinence Day parade
               1. ambrit January 24, 2020 at 8:04 pm

                  Er, “Just Say Know!”
      2. Mo's Bike Shop January 24, 2020 at 8:53 pm

         Oklahoma?
         1. ambrit January 25, 2020 at 1:56 pm

            The Stage Musical or the quasi-independent Native Nation?
   2. anon in so cal January 24, 2020 at 5:55 pm

      Adam Schiff represents massive mendacity about Russia, Ukraine, etc.
6. Doncoyote January 24, 2020 at 2:42 pm

   Progressive Influencers…

   “…took place in an under-the-radar, invite-only network called the Decency Collective,…”

   The Decency Collective forsooth. One wonder how many of these “progressive” influencers, if given the choice between:

   A) A completely sanitized Trump (no tweeting at all; fake bonhomie with the press and foreign leaders; regular press conferences; no mean nicknames or racist rants; no “grab ’em by the…”; etc) but with exactly the same policies and political appointments

   or

   B) The same crazypants Trump but who was actually bringing American troops home; not gutting environmental laws; no tax cuts for the rich; etc

   would choose A? I think the name “Decency Collective” really says it all.
   1. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 24, 2020 at 2:46 pm

      I loved the “Decency Collective.” So awesome. But I had to blow past it, so thanks for calling it out.
7. jo6pac January 24, 2020 at 2:46 pm

   Paul Street on why nancy p. waited so long to turn over the dog and phony show to the senate.

   https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/01/24/a-letter-from-iowa/

   corp. demodogs and their puppet masters will do anything to stop Bernie
   1. Carolinian January 24, 2020 at 3:46 pm

      Perhaps it’s just me but I find Street’s non stop invective to be tiresome. He’s like a lib pundit Don Rickles but without the sense of humor. Or maybe he’s shooting for Hunter Thompson.
      1. jo6pac January 24, 2020 at 4:06 pm

         HT isn’t so bad but I found his idea on why interesting.
      2. Carey January 24, 2020 at 4:45 pm

         +1

         Street gets a triple-Zzz from me.
      3. chuck roast January 24, 2020 at 7:53 pm

         Nuanced…like a ball-peen hammer.
      4. Late Introvert January 25, 2020 at 1:50 am

         I know what he looks like and I’ve seen him on the street. I want to go up to him and say as much. Give it a rest. You are hurting the rest of us with your shrill crap. So Paul, if you’re reading this, watch out at the Co-op for rude remarks and maybe even an insult or two.
8. Bill Carson January 24, 2020 at 2:46 pm

   This morning in the comments I shared links to Joe Rogan’s interviews with Bernie Sanders, Tulsi Gabbard, and Andrew Yang.

   If you are so inclined, here is another really good interview that Rogan did in July, and it is well worth your time—

   Joe Rogan Experience #1325 – Dr. Cornel West
   1. Bruce F January 24, 2020 at 5:21 pm

      Funny, I was watching/listening to this episode when I came across your comment.

      One, of many things, that stood out was West’s comment that one needs to laugh and cry in order to be truly human. Then he said this – “Socrates never cried and Jesus never laughed.”.

      What followed from that was interesting.
      1. Bill Carson January 24, 2020 at 5:23 pm

         The man is a national treasure.
         1. RMO January 25, 2020 at 1:03 am

            And apparently much older than he looks.
   2. The Rev Kev January 24, 2020 at 9:00 pm

      In a Michael Tracey tweet, he said
      ✔
      @mtracey

      Joe Rogan says Biden, Warren, and Mayor Pete tried to get on his podcast and he turned them down. “I like Tulsi and I like Bernie, that’s it. Everybody else can eat s***.”

      LOL
      18.7K
      3:28 PM – Jan 18, 2020
9. Hepativore January 24, 2020 at 2:49 pm

   Now all we need is a public rebuking of demon Sanders by St. Barack to tell us how we have strayed from the holy center-right path of Unity. Yet, he has no problem being divisive when it comes to championing neoliberalism and austerity policies.

   Still, I am getting nervous that we will suddenly get a win in Iowa in Biden’s favor by a small margin. Even if it is an early state, the optics might be poor for Sander’s image as an “electable” candidate and could hurt him in future states. I hope there is not going to be too much vote-tampering by various technicians employed by anti-Sanders factions.
   1. voteforno6 January 24, 2020 at 3:02 pm

      I’m not sure if Obama would actually do that – so he doesn’t speak out against the many horrors of the Trump administration, but the prospect of someone who wants to give everyone health care is what gets him off some billionaire’s private yacht? Is his ego so large that he thinks this would be a good idea?
      1. HotFlash January 24, 2020 at 4:12 pm

         I think Obama fears he has left it too late. What if he tells Dem voters to ‘eat their peas” by voting for not-Sanders and Sanders wins?
         1. Carey January 24, 2020 at 4:47 pm

            Yes, this- and we know how Mister Obama feels about ever looking bad.
      2. drumlin woodchuckles January 24, 2020 at 6:01 pm

         What if messengers from Big Insura have told Obama that he has to stop Sanders if he wants to get the millions of dollars he is expecting to get from Big Insura?
   2. Henry Moon Pie January 24, 2020 at 4:38 pm

      A “rebuke” of Sanders by Obama might cause some problems through Super Tuesday, but it would be gold in the general. Can you imagine having a candidate on the November ballot who’s hated by both Clinton and Obama? Trump would be left to run on nothing but his bluster.
   3. Mo's Bike Shop January 24, 2020 at 9:09 pm

      Apropos of nothing, I’m just recalling that Joe Biden pushed Obama on gay marriage. Or at least that was the narrative when everything changed. I mean, he probably did more to get my mom over my brother being gay than anyone else in the world.

      Don’t like Biden, but politics is funny that way.
10. TroyIA January 24, 2020 at 2:50 pm

    On the menu at Wuhan virus market: Rats and live wolf pups

    SHANGHAI: The food market where China’s deadly virus surfaced was a smorgasbord of exotic wildlife ranging from wolf pups to species linked to previous pandemics such as civets, according to vendor information and a Chinese media report.

    The Huanan Seafood Market in the central city of Wuhan came under greater scrutiny on Wednesday (Jan 22) as Chinese officials said that the virus which has so far killed 17 people and infected hundreds may have originated in a wild animal sold at the food emporium.

    Past deadly epidemics have been blamed on wild animals – Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) was linked to Chinese consumption of civet meat – setting Chinese authorities up for potential embarrassment if lax supervision of wildlife trafficking is found at fault in the latest outbreak.

    A price list circulating on China’s Internet for a business at the Wuhan market lists a menagerie of animals or animal-based products including live foxes, crocodiles, wolf puppies, giant salamanders, snakes, rats, peacocks, porcupines, camel meat and other game – 112 items in all.
    1. jo6pac January 24, 2020 at 4:04 pm

       I read the other day they may have traced it to Bat Soup. Ugh.
    2. Tom Doak January 24, 2020 at 5:17 pm

       Yes, they do eat all of those things (and more!) in China – but somehow, this article is starting to sound like we are going to shame them for their non-good-thinking diet and so deserving of disease.
       1. Phenix January 24, 2020 at 6:40 pm

          Yea….they eat wolf pups.
       2. cm January 25, 2020 at 12:44 am

          They are literally eating raw feces (bat and mouse). Does this not in fact deserve disease?
    3. nycTerrierist January 24, 2020 at 5:22 pm

       karma from Mother Nature
11. ptb January 24, 2020 at 2:51 pm

    Re: “Will you support the Democratic nominee even if it is not your candidate?”

    How interesting! I strongly suspected this, but wouldn’t have guessed how strong the effect is. Pundits take note.
    1. jrs January 24, 2020 at 5:03 pm

       Ugly, and not likely to help. Guess the Yang folks just want the 1k.
       1. ptb January 24, 2020 at 5:09 pm

          “people don’t like being held hostage”

          no kidding… but it’s the go-to play for “centrists” on both sides in the 2 party system.
          1. Jen January 24, 2020 at 7:07 pm

             ding! we have a winner!

             Interestingly, from that AP article about the SC elected official changing her endorsement:

             “Myers said she started to feel that Biden’s candidacy, while familiar and perhaps comfortable, wasn’t going to be enough to inspire the young voters whom she sees as necessary to a Democratic general election win.

             I’m a 50-year-old-black woman, and I tend to be middle of the road,” Myers said. “I’m voting what I think is best for all of us, not just me. … I’m not a left-wing liberal. I’m not even a left-wing Democrat. But I am a realist.”

             Now that is one hell of an interesting comment.
       2. Massinissa January 24, 2020 at 5:40 pm

          Alot of Yangs base are centrists, Republicans, or libertarians, or similar things. He has a surprisingly broad appeal, so its not surprising that alot of Yang’s supporters won’t vote democratic if he loses because alot of them are not democrats or even leftists.
    2. John k January 24, 2020 at 8:57 pm

       Bernie bro’s likely will only consider warren, so if it’s biden half stay home.
       But if it’s Bernie almost all vote for him… except maybe yangs small group.
12. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 24, 2020 at 2:56 pm

    I finished up adding Politics material; had to leave a ton of stuff on the cutting room floor!

    Plenty of interesting nuggets in there. Sanders’ mittens!
13. Lee January 24, 2020 at 2:57 pm

    For fellow Science Friday fans irritated by it’s preemption in favor of impeachment hearings.

    After participating here, of course.
14. Tvc15 January 24, 2020 at 3:03 pm

    Joe Rogan’s endorsement of Sanders may be more impactful than the stupid NYT endorsement of Warren and Klobuchar…does she really have any supporters?

    David Doel, The Rational National lays out a pretty good case why.
    5 minute you tube video
    https://youtu.be/RFzovy5lPhc
    1. Toshiro_Mifune January 24, 2020 at 3:51 pm

       Joe Rogan is far closer to the “center” than the NYT editorial board.
       1. Carey January 24, 2020 at 4:48 pm

          >Joe Rogan is far closer to the “center” than the NYT editorial board.

          You *bet* he is.
    2. Henry Moon Pie January 24, 2020 at 4:42 pm

       Amy apparently has a lock on the Ukrainian-American vote, at least those Ukrainian-Americans who support having a war in their ancestral home. I guess that support is more understandable–who wants a war in their country–considering that they live in the U. S. (and are sometimes employed by the NSC).
       1. Toshiro_Mifune January 24, 2020 at 5:54 pm

          I guess that support is more understandable–who wants a war in their country

          This made me think of the Oprah car meme. “You get a war! and you get a war! and you get a war! Everyone gets a war !”

          https://media.giphy.com/media/y8Mz1yj13s3kI/giphy.gif
       2. The Rev Kev January 24, 2020 at 6:57 pm

          I find it remarkable that she actually went to the Dobass front “for photo-ops with Ukrainian nationalist fighters.” That means groups like the Azov battalions. Sure John McCain had photo ops with people like that but he could get away with having photo ops with Jihadists too and nobody said boo to him about that. Nobody said that she had to go to the front itself which makes me wonder how close she is with the US/NATO groups training these fighters. That would imply that like Mayor Pete, she too is in close with the intel/military community.
          1. hoki haya January 25, 2020 at 10:09 pm

             Correct.
15. Stephanie January 24, 2020 at 3:05 pm

    Link for the Martha Nussbaum interview: https://www.thenation.com/article/interview-cosmopolitan-tradition-martha-nussbaum/

    (The Live Science article on methyl groups is also interesting!)
16. Stephen V. January 24, 2020 at 3:20 pm

    https://m.facebook.com/story/graphql_permalink/?graphql_id=UzpfSTYxMjEyNzE5ODk1MDA5MjoxNDk3NDQ1MTkzNzUxNjE3

    Sorry for the Facebook link. But THE DNC FRAUD LAWSUIT IS HEADED TO THE SUPREME CT. Nice if they would rule before the Convention. Dreaming here.
    1. lambert strether January 24, 2020 at 3:26 pm

       Thanks , but I can’t access. Could you post an excerpt and/or the case name and/or a link to the brief? Thanks!
       1. Stephen V. January 24, 2020 at 4:47 pm

          Here you go!

          https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=%2Fdocket%2FDocketFiles%2Fhtml%2FPublic%2F19A809.html&fbclid=IwAR0_1tCqg67rrnyvIkeP59R8UhxNqiy0_V2qxMDCESHanj9BwUG3paBYJOk
    2. Ernie January 24, 2020 at 5:23 pm

       The link you provided to the Supreme Court page (below) merely shows that Justice Thomas approved an extension of the date to file for a writ of certiorari from January 26, 2020 to March 26, 2020. The writ still would need to be filed and approved by the court before the case could be heard and decided by the justices. Every year, far more writs of certiorari (basically a request to the court to hear one’s case) are submitted than there are cases actually heard and decided by the court. Unfortunately, this one apparently still has a long way to go and very possibly may not get there in the end.
17. Carey January 24, 2020 at 3:22 pm

    Saagar Enjeti: If Obama trashes Bernie, it will backfire:

    https://hooktube.com/watch?v=XWpHzmpyTcQ

    Enjeti talks about some of the points Lambert has repeatedly mentioned,
    WRT Sanders’s independent media, funding, et c. Ball makes some
    good points around 7′ in, too.

    The Rogan endorsement really strikes me as a possible phase-change
    moment, and the paid-SJW crew really are way out of their depth now,
    IMO. So Rogan has their knickers in a twist..? OK.
    1. ptb January 24, 2020 at 5:04 pm

       Yes, interesting analysis By Saagar and Krystal.

       I do think Obama is very very highly respected among Democrats, that’s nothing to write off. If he attacks Sanders seriously enough to elicit a response, they’re both gonna get meaningfully hurt in terms of image. There are plenty of issues where the Obama administration made the wrong choice, but the public was willing to look the other way out of respect to the man himself. Maybe it’s good that way for the time being, but it is certainly not written in stone. It also seems that Obama is at least aware of Biden’s issues.

       I imagine a mild call is coming, for being “realistic” about public health care, what with it being physically impossible South of Ontario etc etc.
       1. Carey January 24, 2020 at 5:34 pm

          I think Obama’s approval is pretty limited to well-to-do PMC; that’s not much more
          than 10% of the electorate. The rest have been getting told to get woke, learn to code, stop being misogynists- transphobes- bros- you name it, and many of the named are realizing that’s a road to nowhere. IOW, an Obama endorsement or
          disavowal might have unintended consequences.. he’s vapid, but not stupid.

          I don’t know if Rogan *is* the phase-change moment, but one is coming.
       2. NotTimothyGeithner January 24, 2020 at 9:05 pm

          I think “Obama” is respected. Barack Obama is largely an ignored figure. Outside of people who follow politics for sport, I think this would largely be ignored. The bots would be more annoying than usual, but given his past backing for losers, I doubt anyone would really care.
    2. Henry Moon Pie January 25, 2020 at 1:24 am

       It seems that there’s a tsunami approaching. Those liberal Dems better start swimmin’.
18. Carey January 24, 2020 at 3:29 pm

    Adding: it does seem to me, now, that Sanders’s mcApology to Biden was the right thing to do, and the former’s a-little-above-the-fray approach at the moment seems
    well-crafted for the long run to the nomination and Presidency.

    Liked that Rogan / Sanders ad a lot. “these weeds… they’re everywhere now!”

    heh legitimacy2020
19. Plenue January 24, 2020 at 3:42 pm

    A couple days ago The New Republic article Educated Fools; Why Democratic Leaders Still Misunderstand the Politics of Social Class was posted in links. It didn’t generate much discussion, but having finally gotten around to reading (actually, listening to) it, I kind of love it.

    Not because it’s insightful, because it mostly isn’t. At least not intentionally. There’s not really anything it has to say that you couldn’t already get from Thomas Frank.

    But it’s revealing of just how utterly clueless the liberal ‘elite’ are even when they’re grasping at real understanding, and how irritatingly smug and pretentious they are, even when they’re trying to not be smug.

    The author’s central point is that ‘let them eat education’ is bad policy, but he comes at it more in the sense that if everyone gets college educated, college education will be devalued. He explicitly makes the point that college is for producing management who will oversee the dumb plebs who make up the majority of the population. He doesn’t actually say the ‘dumb’ part out loud, but I get zero sense that he has any genuine sympathy for them, or thinks highly of the capacity for intelligence of less educated people. His critique is about Democrats losing working class support, and how to get it back.

    He (unhappily, because he unironically likes him. He also thinks Warren is the ideal of a president, because of course he does) criticizes Obama for advocating more college, and thinks Sanders (who of course he thinks is the ‘hard left’) is a crazy fringe loon for wanting college to be free (the fact Sanders isn’t saying everyone should go and wants working class jobs to pay a living wage goes unmentioned). He also talks about ‘Marxists’ wanting free college. Who are these Marxists? He doesn’t say. I hope he doesn’t think Sanders is a Marxist…

    There are multiple assumptions built into the article’s thesis, like that ‘of course’ we’re in a new knowledge economy and everyone just has to be okay with that, or that capitalism is the only choice, though perhaps we can look to Europe for a more enlightened form of it.

    There’s some genuinely useful stuff in there, but it’s all filtered through clueless liberalism, even while it’s lamenting liberals being clueless.
    1. Carolinian January 24, 2020 at 3:59 pm

       Sounds like we read different articles. You do a lot of summarizing of what you claim he said. Perhaps some actual quotes–easy to do with cut and paste–would be more useful.

       I think his main point–at least in the article I read–is perfectly valid. He’s saying that elites overvalue higher education because that was the ticket to their success. But the truth is that many would be happier in the skilled trades or they would be if the overvaluing of college degrees didn’t undervalue them. This isn’t patronizing the working class but just the opposite. He also points to a time when far fewer Americans lacked college education and yet we somehow produced a Lincoln not to mention a Gore Vidal. Perhaps those autodidacts illustrate the point that thirst of knowledge doesn’t necessarily involve a credential.
       1. ambrit January 24, 2020 at 4:19 pm

          The problem here is that the “Job Market,” [All bow in the direction of Jeckyll Island,] mandates degrees now for formerly ‘learn while you work’ tasks. This is a case of the socialization of the losses, privitization of the profits system. (The workers now pay for what was once an employer’s cost item.)
          1. Carolinian January 24, 2020 at 5:42 pm

             I was talking to one of former librarians in the grocery store and she said she left because there’s no future there these days without an MLS–including for what are really clerical positions. They still have young people shelving the books but that’s about it. Personally I’m of the opinion that your education only really starts when you leave college. But I was a liberal arts major and not studying medicine or science or some field where you genuinely need specialized training. Given what college costs these days you have to speculate that money–for the colleges as well as the graduates–is playing far too great a role. As with medicine it may be an institution that has changed while attitudes about it remain firmly lodged in the past. There was a time when college, as well as medicine, wasn’t quite so business oriented.
             1. cm January 25, 2020 at 12:53 am

                Agreed. If we stopped the guaranteed subsidy of college by treating college costs differently from all other debts during bankruptcy (thanks to Biden), the cost of college would plummet back to normal historical levels.

                Restated: treat college loan debts the same as any other debt. College costs would then naturally fall back to historical levels and every one (except the colleges and Joe Biden) would benefit.
    2. Carey January 24, 2020 at 5:01 pm

       I haven’t read the ‘Educated Fools’ piece, but will do so. Thanks for the reminder.
    3. jrs January 24, 2020 at 6:05 pm

       It was a decent article, he basically wants more worker control, although good luck stumping for that obscure a policy without a ton of voter education and experimentation first. It’s not that easy to understand.

       Is anyone with any power proposing anything but capitalism? The article wants us to be more like Denmark, Sanders isn’t proposing anything more radical than that, and that would be a pretty radical makeover. I think he does have sympathy for the dumb plebs and believes in their capacity, as the point of the article is to empower them, worker empowerment, I don’t know if the policies would work (they are so obscure) but … the sentiment is all right.
20. Watt4Bob January 24, 2020 at 3:54 pm

    There’s a better Bible quote to address that angry Dad’s question to Warren; Matthew 20:1-16

    The workers in the vineyard. The vineyard owner paid the workers the same wage no matter how long they had worked that day, all day, half the day, or just a few hours.

    When one of the workers who had been there all day complained;

    “These last fellows worked one hour, and you have made them equal to us who bore the hardship and burning heat of the day.”

    The landowner replied;

    ” I want to give this last man the same as I gave to you. Am I not permitted to do what I want with what belongs to me? Or are you envious because I am generous?”

    W4B;

    There’s also the obvious, but little mentioned result of forgiving the massive student debt, that being the immense boost to the economy that would more-or-less instantly “raise all boats” including angry Dad’s.
    1. Bill Carson January 24, 2020 at 4:48 pm

       Preach it!
    2. aj January 24, 2020 at 4:59 pm

       I took out my own student loans and paid them off over 10 years. Am I upset that college was not free when I went? Of course. Does that make me wish it has to be that way going forward? Of course not. I’ll take my medicare for all and be just fine. It would personally benefit me if there was some sort of reimbursement for what was paid it the past but I think what we need to focus on is going forward. Having kids with money that can afford to move out of their parent’s houses will in deed lift all boats. Why, if school is now free i might consider finally getting a post-graduate degree or just learning something new.
    3. Tom Bradford January 25, 2020 at 5:17 pm

       The two immediate responses that occurred to me were:

       1. In what sense was the money the landowner use to pay the wages ‘his’ given that it was the profits of the vineyard resulting from the labours of the workers? So in fact that shirking workers were riding on the backs of those putting in a full day.

       2. “Well, OK. I’ll only work an hour a day for a full day’s wage, too, so’s you can be even more ostentatiously generous. That its, of course, until you go bankrupt and the vineyard is bought by someone who pays a fair wage for each hour worked.”
       1. notabanktoadie January 26, 2020 at 4:06 am

          1. In what sense was the money the landowner use to pay the wages ‘his’ …

          In Biblical economics, the agricultural land was roughly equally owned by all citizens so the land was certainly his and the workers were then either:
          a) foreigners, the responsibility of another nation
          or
          b) citizens who had temporarily lost their own land (see Leviticus 25).

          So the man had a perfect right to be generous* with what was his.

          Per the Bible, the distinction between capital and labor did not normally exist among citizens.

          That that distinction is so pronounced today is evidence that the Bible is largely ignored wrt economic justice.

          Also, the workers were not shirking but had not been hired.

          *And, per the Bible, was wise to be so (Proverbs 11:25).
       2. Watt4Bob January 26, 2020 at 9:04 am

          The two immediate responses that occurred to me were:

          The quality of your “immediate responses” illustrate why it’s better to take some time to consider the facts, absorb the point of the story and think about it before spouting the first thing that pops into your head.

          notabanktoadie is correct, the laborers hired last are not ‘shirkers’ and the vineyard owner is wise in his generosity, since among the other results of his behavior, he’ll have little trouble finding help the next time he needs it.
21. XXYY January 24, 2020 at 4:00 pm

    This is a horrible example. What Obama did was throw Wright under the bus — the minister of a church he’d attended for years. Wright knew it, too, and wasn’t having it.

    Well, I’d say Bernie threw Teachout under the bus, too, with his apology, though IMO he was talking about matters of decorum rather than saying Teachout was wrong (which she obviously wasn’t).

    Bernie has taken a ton of (well intentioned) flack from his base for refusing to attack his fellows in the Dem primary. My guess is that Bernie has long ago learned that these kinds of attacks leave a bad aftertaste that eventually outweigh their campaign value and damage his ability to work with people after the election. People are very tribal and have long memories for who their friends and enemies are.

    OTOH Bernie seems to have no compunction about insulting and criticizing Trump, so his principles seem limited to his own party, or maybe just to professional politicians.
    1. chuckster January 24, 2020 at 6:05 pm

       The problem is that the Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans. To only criticize Trump makes Bernie look like a standard Dem Party hack.
       1. Fiery Hunt January 24, 2020 at 6:42 pm

          But Bernie doesn’t just criticize Trump: the establishment, the elites, the billionaires, the media, the corporatists all get their share of blasting from the Senator from Vermont.
          1. Plenue January 24, 2020 at 9:05 pm

             He’s playing a long game strategy of running a positive campaign, based around issues.

             We’ll see in the coming weeks whether this is the right plan or not.
       2. jrs January 24, 2020 at 9:15 pm

          It might be from years of, and a current need, to work with Dems to get anything done. But why doesn’t he work with Reps? Well I guess he would if it made sense, but clearly because there is less to work with them on, ie Dems aren’t just as bad, it doesn’t mean they are good.
          1. NotTimothyGeithner January 24, 2020 at 10:21 pm

             I don’t think its a case of working with any of these people as much as recognizing its important to use popular pressure to make Adam Schiff understand it was a good thing he wasn’t recognized on Jeopardy.

             Toss the incalcitrant out and start boycotts of organizations that might hire them. Make sure these people can’t order a meal without ordering a generous helping of spit if they are lucky.

             Every American needs to have “get me the manager” attitude when it comes to electeds. Make them impossible to hire. If they want to be on the correct side of history, let them have a chance to stand on the podium, but the goal of mass pressure is to identify and make these people pariahs.
22. XXYY January 24, 2020 at 4:22 pm

    Moment Iowa dad gets into a heated row with Elizabeth Warren over her student loan forgiveness plan, telling the candidate people who have already paid for their kids’ tuition will be getting ‘screwed.

    This has come up over and over on the Sanders Reddit sub. There seems to be an unattractive strain of “something bad happened to me, so now it should happen to everyone else, too” in our species.

    Of course, if we are going to improve society and make things better over time, then there will always be people existing who date back to before the time when things got better. Did this happen after slavery was outlawed, for example? “I spent my life as a slave, and now these young punks are just walking around free!”

    I think the best remedy is to improve society as quickly and comprehensively as possible, so that the “before” cohort is minimized and left in the past as fast as we can manage it.
    1. Bill Carson January 24, 2020 at 4:51 pm

       See my comment above.

       What’s grossly unfair is that grandma and grandpa went to college for next to free, and now their grandkids are charged $20,000, $30,000, $35,000 per year for the same education.

       Probably while the whiny dad in the brown jacket was voting in people to cut state funding for higher education.
       1. pretzelattack January 24, 2020 at 6:22 pm

          well we don’t know who he voted for, and what did his daughter owe? isn’t he complaining about the same range of debt you mention?
    2. Jeff W January 24, 2020 at 6:01 pm

       “…people who have already paid for their kids’ tuition will be getting ‘screwed.’”

       “Yeah, and a lot of people died before smallpox was eradicated. They got ‘screwed,’ too. What’s your point?”
    3. chuck roast January 24, 2020 at 9:42 pm

       As I recall, Chris Arnade pointed out that the people who were most frosted about the poor “welfare bums” (their neighbors) were the near-poor. These were the people who were busting their butts and just scraping by. They resented that those who had fallen completely off the economic ladder were on the dole. Like they had surrendered, totally lost their dignity and had lapsed into indolence. When it gets personal like this it’s painful and difficult to address.
23. PKMKII January 24, 2020 at 4:25 pm

    Counterpoint to the Warren’s strong Iowa ground game article: Elizabeth Warren’s campaign downplays early state expectations in new pre-Iowa memo

    Lau’s memo seeks to downplay those [early primaries] “narrative” angles and shift the focus off of the states voting in February and onto Super Tuesday and beyond. It features graphics that underline — literally — the percentage of total delegates on offer in four groups of contests. The “Early States,” it reminds voters, make up only 3.9% of the full slate.
24. notabanktoadie January 24, 2020 at 4:33 pm

    “‘My daughter is in school, I saved all my money just to pay student loans, can I have my money back?’ the man says to Warren. The senator from Massachusetts replies: ‘Of course not.’” • I’ve raised this issue before, to, IIRC, some scoffing. I donl’t know what the numbers would be if we rolled back all student payments, however. You can also hear Trump making this argument, so it has to be dealt with. (I suppose Luke 15:11-32 applies, but it’s a heavy lift.) Lambert

    Steve Keen’s “A Modern Jubilee” would compensate non-debtors too and if combined with de-privileging the banks (deflationary in itself) could be done with no net increase in the money supply.

    What’s not to like? Eliminating the means by which the banks and the richer steal from the poorer?
    1. Michael January 24, 2020 at 5:25 pm

       There’s plenty not to like, provided you buy into the argument that college kids don’t deserve to have their debt erased. Here’s a video starring Mike Huckabee that I’ve received in a FW:FW:FW:FW: email from family:

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYToz2ePoyY

       Good people pay their debts. Rewarding latte-swilling Interpretive Dance majors for their bad behavior is not only (apparently) unfair, it also decays the moral fabric of society.

       You can see how Huckabee earns his paychecks. The argument seems compelling, and far more importantly, it erases the question of whether debt forgiveness is a sensible policy from the discourse.
       1. Massinissa January 24, 2020 at 5:45 pm

          I love how its always the neoliberals who get to talk about how important the ‘moral fabric’ of society is when its their policies and views that are shredding it.
       2. False Solace January 24, 2020 at 6:33 pm

          > Good people pay their debts.

          I learned all about this during the foreclosure crisis, when 11 million families who couldn’t pay their debts were thrown out of their homes. And ever since we enacted all that justice, the economy has been just great and there have been zero negative repercussions.

          /s
          1. The Rev Kev January 24, 2020 at 7:00 pm

             Well except for making it possible to have Trump elected President that is.
       3. notabanktoadie January 25, 2020 at 12:50 am

          Good people pay their debts.

          What debts? Bank “lending” creates deposits/liabilities for fiat and, due to government privilege such as deposit insurance, vastly more than they otherwise could and expect to get away with it.

          So the “debts” are largely bogus to begin with.

          I’d inform Mr. Huckabee that good people don’t justify a government-privileged counterfeiting cartel and that the Bible, including the OT, is meant to be read, not ignored.
          1. skippy January 25, 2020 at 3:23 am

             See that is problematic because its based on a currency standard that is no longer applicable, divined from a period of human experience that is also no longer applicable, and PIE extenuated is not a good starting point – lest one favors that anthropological reality.
       4. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 25, 2020 at 2:07 am

          > Good people pay their debts

          No Christian believes that; Matt 6:12; Deut 15; and see Michael Hudson at NC here.
    2. joey January 24, 2020 at 6:40 pm

       This ties into reparations and would be a tougher sell, but to my thinking…
       First debt forgiveness, then
       Fund for those who went bankrupt with college expenses a component, then
       Tax relief for all others who paid college tuition from the time of the Biden law making college loans unrecoverable at a minimum. (or 72 because Sallie Mae, or 58(?) or whenever government stimulus was first financializing tuition.)
       sliding scale of rectification.
    3. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 25, 2020 at 2:09 am

       > Steve Keen’s “A Modern Jubilee” would compensate non-debtors too

       That, IMNSHO, is what we should do. Warren should be able to say: “We are sorry you got enmeshed in a system of usury. You were lucky to escape. We are here to make you whole.”

       Sanders will have to face this, too, at some point.
       1. skippy January 25, 2020 at 3:00 am

          Without an overhaul of the legal system of contracts, based on a hard currency past, I think a jubilee is self defeating E.g. it does not force the issue in dealing with the fundamental contractual obligations which necessitate an endless groundhog day based on some human life span metric w/o acknowledgment of the environments state in the future.

          I can just imagine a fruit fly series that makes Darwinian social organization an atomic pinata, JG [environmentally driven] with hair cuts for all and Education – Health a state oversight social imperative.
          1. Adam Eran January 26, 2020 at 8:23 pm

             The problem is mathematical. Interest compounds without limit, while the means to repay loans (the real economy) does not. Michael Hudson notes that kinder ancient societies had periodic jubilees because of the tendency of debt to become unpayable. Keen’s scenario ($50K to each tax payer, going to pay off debt first) would have to be repeated.
             1. notabanktoadie January 27, 2020 at 5:17 am

                Steve Keen’s solution is more just than Michael Hudson’s since government privileges for private credit creation cheat non-debtors too.

                Better than both is to abolish ALL privileges for depository institutions (vastly deflationary in itself) and to replace ALL fiat creation beyond that created by deficit spending for the general welfare with an equal Citizen’s Dividend whose explicit purpose would be to counter price deflation and thus justly share productivity increases with all citizens AND as restitution for the theft inherent in government privileges for “the banks.”

                Of course we need land reform too …
25. jsn January 24, 2020 at 5:13 pm

    “Three years of “This time we’ve got him!” and now, with these documents, “This time we’ll really get him!”, but let’s not subpoena these these ourselves and fight to get them using whatever power we can Constitiutionally muster, let’s rely on the nice Republicans in the Senate to do this for us, and when they refuse use that to convince thier voters they are feckless…
    1. Bill Carson January 24, 2020 at 5:26 pm

       If Edward Snowden or Julien Assange delivered the documents, do you think they would change their minds about prosecuting them?

       Nah, they probably wouldn’t.
26. Samuel Conner January 24, 2020 at 5:41 pm

    I am tempted to suspect that BHO is not pleased with the prospect that Sanders may broaden the “base” of the D party to include large numbers of people that the Party Establishment would prefer to not be obliged to govern in the interests of.
27. anon in so cal January 24, 2020 at 6:05 pm

    Klobuchar and the Ukrainian Nationalist Community in Minnesota:

    Liberals consorting with Nazis / fascists (as long as they’re anti Russia it’s OK)

    “Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN)….Stepan Bandera is an important book that combines biography and sociology as it lays out the story of an important radical nationalist and the organization he led. But what makes it so relevant, of course, is the OUN’s powerful resurgence since the 1991….

    A homegrown group of Banderites meanwhile formed the Social-National Party of Ukraine, later known as Svoboda. In a 2004 speech, their leader, the charismatic Oleh Tiahnybok, paid tribute to the fighters of the UPA:

    The enemy came and took their Ukraine. But they were not afraid; likewise we must not be afraid. They hung their machine guns on their necks and went into the woods. They fought against the Russians, Germans, Jews, and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state! And therefore our task — for every one of you, the young, the old, the gray-headed and the youthful — is to defend our native land!

    …One might think that the liberal West would want nothing to do with such elements, but the response was no less unscrupulous than it was during the opening years of the Cold War. Because the banderivtsi were anti-Russian, they had to be democratic. Because they were democratic, their ultra-right trappings had to be inconsequential….:

    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/09/stepan-bandera-nationalist-euromaidan-right-sector/
    1. hoki haya January 25, 2020 at 10:39 pm

       It boggles the mind.
28. The Rev Kev January 24, 2020 at 7:04 pm

    “Obama feels Sanders is unfit to battle Trump – and he has told people he might say so publicly”

    “The average American doesn’t think we have to completely tear down the system to remake it,” the Times quoted Obama, who was speaking at a gathering of Democratic donors.

    The average American? Or the average donor? Meanwhile hundreds of millions of Americans say yes, the system does have to be completely torn down to remake it.
29. anon in so cal January 24, 2020 at 8:43 pm

    Kamala Harris to endorse Biden? Biden to choose Harris as VP?

    “Kamala Harris is reportedly weighing a potential endorsement of Joe Biden, as rumours swirl that she might be considered to become his running mate.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/kamala-harris-joe-biden-endorse-vice-president-iowa-a9300986.html
    1. Carey January 24, 2020 at 8:47 pm

       Perfect! Harris/Biden2020- For the [Corporate] People!

       Will guarantee lowest Dem turnout evah, which might be the plan
    2. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 25, 2020 at 2:11 am

       Think happy thoughts on the way down.
       1. ambrit January 25, 2020 at 2:06 pm

          Isn’t that what Willie Brown told Harris?
          Now some people would claim an equivalency between this example and Bill Clinton’s “dalliance” with Mz Blue Dress. Not true. Monica did not end up Assistant Secretary of the Treasury or some equivalent position. (Very oblique sarcasm alert.)
    3. Mattski January 27, 2020 at 1:49 pm

       Word in recent polls out of CA is that all of Harris’s support is cleaving to Bernie. Amazing if true.
30. Carey January 24, 2020 at 8:45 pm

    Monty Python on transgenderism™:

    https://hooktube.com/watch?time_continue=125&v=euqEEN8W_Kw&feature=emb_logo

    Divide ‘n’ rule is working really, really well.
    1. Carey January 24, 2020 at 10:48 pm

       Joe Rogan 2024.
31. VietnamVet January 24, 2020 at 9:37 pm

    The Doomsday Clock is the closest to midnight since it was turned on in 1947. It is not just the internet but also the Democrats restarting the Cold War and then using it to justify impeaching the President. Despite the irony, there is also vulture capitalism as a cause.

    Boeing 737 Max is an example profit over engineering. The illegal Iraq and Syria occupations are war profiteering gone large. Australia bushfires are due to resource extraction despite adverse environment effects. Tariff wars with China disrupt trade. Lastly, Donald Trump is prioritizing making more money over science.

    Chairman Xi has quarantined 33 million people due to the coronavirus epidemic. WWIII started. The world is in a false peace since Iran fired ballistic missiles at the American Iraqi base that resulted in 34 traumatic brain injuries. Global Chaos has launched.
    1. Lambert Strether Post authorJanuary 25, 2020 at 2:13 am

       > 34 traumatic brain injuries

       IIRC, the Americans knew the missiles were coming, which is why they could get the troops sheltered. So how did the brain injuries happen?
       1. VietnamVet January 25, 2020 at 3:48 am

          NYT; “Traumatic brain injuries can result from the powerful changes in atmospheric pressure that accompany an explosion like that from a missile warhead.” Iranian ballistic missiles have the equivalent of a ton and half of TNT. One missile is like a Texas Chemical Plant Explosion. The outer perimeter was manned. The CNN talked to two. They looked shell shocked. I never saw that after the rocket attacks on LZ English. Iranian missiles are thousands of times more powerful than RPGs or man transported artillery rockets.

          The Houthi reportedly continue to launch missile and drone attacks. The latest in Yemen killing around 120 of the Saudi Coalition.

          Without a peace treaty, sooner or later, Donald Trump won’t turn his cheek, or the wrong target will be hit at the wrong time and the Middle East will blowup,.
       2. The Rev Kev January 25, 2020 at 4:04 am

          Although most US and Iraqi personnel took shelter, my understanding is that teams had to be left out in order to guard against the possibility of armed attacks on those base’s perimeters. They were watching the perimeters and I think that you had drone operators out as well to conduct external patrols. These people drew the short straw and some must have been hit by the blast waves from the explosions that VietnamVet talks about.
          1. ambrit January 25, 2020 at 2:09 pm

             I wonder, are tactical drone operators now an integral part of American Army small unit tactics?
             1. hoki haya January 25, 2020 at 10:32 pm

                Yes.
                1. ambrit January 26, 2020 at 11:54 pm

                   Thanks. I now wonder about counter drone tactics. A drone can fly way up in the sky and lurk off in the distance. Perhaps anti-surveillance technology tactics is more appropriate.
                   Will skeet shooting become part of a ground trooper’s practice routine?
                   Plus, what pellet load in a shotgun does the most damage to the average drone? This is getting technical.
32. flora January 24, 2020 at 10:52 pm

    Thomas Frank’s new book is due out June 23, 2020. I’m looking forward to this book. Sounds timely.

    “The People, No: A Brief History of Anti-Populism”

    From the description:
    The real story of populism is an account of enlightenment and liberation; it is the story of American democracy itself, of its ever-widening promise of a decent life for all. Taking us from the tumultuous 1890s, when the radical left-wing Populist Party―the biggest mass movement in American history―fought Gilded Age plutocrats to the reformers’ great triumphs under Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman, Frank reminds us how much we owe to the populist ethos. Frank also shows that elitist groups have reliably detested populism, lashing out at working-class concerns. The anti-populist vituperations by the Washington centrists of today are only the latest expression.
    1. ambrit January 25, 2020 at 2:12 pm

       Sounds good. It should come with a Workbook. “How To Be Populist: Theory and Implementation.”
    2. Carey January 25, 2020 at 2:29 pm

       +1

       Looking forward to Frank’s new book here, too. :)
33. Mattski January 27, 2020 at 1:49 pm

    Rogan is (almost) endorsing Bernie; Bernie is not endorsing Joe Rogan.

    Easy enough for Bernie to say, “I condemn Joe Rogan’s treatment of LGBTQ visitors to his show. And I welcome any individual who votes for me.”

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