Links 10/2/2020

Subscribe to Post Comments

288 comments

1. fresno dan October 2, 2020 at 7:09 am

   Covid 19. Well, we’re gonna find out about obesity, morbidity, and how heavy the president really is…
   1. Fireship October 2, 2020 at 7:19 am

      What is already dead cannot be killed.
      1. ambrit October 2, 2020 at 8:07 am

         “That is not dead which can eternally lie. And with strange election cycles, even death can die.” Al Azif. Old crypto-pseudo-arabic aphorism.
         We now live in a Lovecraftian world.
         (Of interest to future antiquarians; the google ‘search’ for “crypto” bought up pages of links to cryptocurrency sites. I had to specify in my search term ‘definition’ to get anything useful. Can we call this “cryptofacation?)
         [As a second order effect; I can imagine Lovecraft viewing with eldritch horror today’s Google processes.]
         1. Wukchumni October 2, 2020 at 8:16 am

            Cryptocthulhu futures have been in positive territory since yesterday.
         2. shtove October 2, 2020 at 9:13 am

            I just came across the term Chthulucene, successor to the Anthropocene:

            If there is to be a Chthulucene, where humans truly try to live in sustainable way in harmony with other species and ecosystems, really depends on how long the Anthropocene lasts, and whether human impacts can be reversed. We may be reaching a tipping points where instead of Haraway’s vision of a harmonious Chthulucene we have a Cthulhucene (note the subtle difference in spelling) where humanity shall be devoured by a enormous horror of our own making. As Haraway notes, we are all in this together , humans, ecosystems and all, and the need to come together (as far as the environment is concerned) has never been more important.

            Haraway is a fan of Ursula K Le Guin, and subscribes to the carrier-bag theory of fiction:

            The bag is full of beginnings without ends, of initiations, of losses, of transformations and translations, and far more tricks than conflicts, far fewer triumphs than snares and delusions; full of spaceships that get stuck, missions that fail, and people who don’t understand…

            http://www.southernfriedscience.com/the-call-of-the-chthulucene/

            ps. “even death can die” is a Christian thing.
            1. Henry Moon Pie October 2, 2020 at 10:42 am

               +100

               That “death of death” thing actually goes back further than Christianity. In the Ugaritic Ba’al cycle, Mot (the Semitic word for “death”) eats Ba’al, but before he can even digest him, Ba’al’s sister, Anat, slays him, and Ba’al is reborn.

               The Mot myth is picked up in the Hebrew Bible in Hosea 13 where the prophet adopts Ugaritic personification of Death in a verse that comes as close as anything in the Hebrew Bible to talking about a resurrection. That section is picked up by Paul at the end of I Corinthians in a verse frequently read at Christian funerals.

               And that’s just one continuous thread in a myth tradition to which I’ve been exposed.
               1. shtove October 2, 2020 at 3:29 pm

                  Cheers! I have much to learn, master.
      2. Deschain October 2, 2020 at 8:11 am

         I believe it’s ‘what is dead can never die’
         1. furies October 2, 2020 at 8:43 am

            Hopefully, his diagnosis will help with this (as I clutch my pearls)…

            https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-10-01/covid-19-restrictions-bring-california-county-into-revolt?sref=2o0rZsF1
            1. Wukchumni October 2, 2020 at 9:12 am

               On a happier note, Trump finally tweeted something positive.
               1. JCC October 2, 2020 at 9:53 am

                  Personally, my very first thought about Trump contracting COVID-19 was “He’s lying.” and all the implications that would involve.
                  1. fresno dan October 2, 2020 at 10:47 am

                     JCC
                     October 2, 2020 at 9:53 am

                     At last, someone as cynical as me.
                     I think a good case could be made that if Trump said he had Covid, but carried on with no ill affects, it would vindicate Trump’s pandemic policies.
                     1. The Historian October 2, 2020 at 10:56 am

                        Oh, he’s already claiming he has symptoms, like a mild cold. Yea.

                        https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/10/02/world/covid-19-coronavirus?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

                        And being the “greatest”, I’m sure those are the only ‘symptoms’ he will ever get.

                        He’s also tweeting that “We will get through this TOGETHER!” Would have been nice if he’d have shown some of that togetherness with the meatpackers, the Amazon Fulfillment Center employees, the maids, etc., not to mention the over 200,000 families who have lost loved ones.
                        1. fresno dan October 2, 2020 at 12:37 pm

                           The Historian
                           October 2, 2020 at 10:56 am

                           I am sure Trump will be the greatest Covid patient since Lincoln…maybe ever.
                        2. none October 2, 2020 at 1:41 pm

                           Herman Cain’s account is still tweeting that covid is no big deal.
                        3. drumlin woodchuckles October 2, 2020 at 11:43 pm

                           He means himself and his fan base. No one else.
                  2. Lex October 2, 2020 at 11:30 am

                     My first thought as well, followed by weighing the political upside for him.
                  3. Bernard October 2, 2020 at 3:45 pm

                     For some reason, I also agree.
            2. Oso_in_Oakland October 2, 2020 at 10:46 am

               furies, it’s scary as hell in shasta. friend of a friend went missing there back in May. Dahvonte Morgan, left his fiancee in a restaurant to buy a pack of cigarettes and never seen again. local police went thru the motions, search parties from the bay looked for him. not a good place for Black people to visit.
               1. furies October 2, 2020 at 11:36 am

                  Saw that…it’s seriously scary around here these days. Can’t even go to the hardware store without getting the stink-eye for wearing a mask.

                  (as I clutch my pearls–if I only *had* some)

                  I never ever thought I would miss the smell of pachouli;)
   2. Lost in OR October 2, 2020 at 7:30 am

      Donald Trump tests positive for coronavirusm

      Thank you for proving I’ve not lost my sense of humor. Gosh, I hope they’re ok!

      So yeah, well, what’s next? Will I be able to sleep past 4:00am? Or am I just F’d?
   3. allan October 2, 2020 at 7:41 am

      Intubation video or it didn’t happen.
      1. IMOR October 2, 2020 at 9:42 am

         This. Either they already recovered from asymptomatic or very mild cases, or it’s completely fabricated. In a period when people in power lie the entire time they speak, no topic has been lied about more than Presidential health. Nor with more precedent.
   4. Wukchumni October 2, 2020 at 8:02 am

      …requiem for a heavy wait

      Often when those in the public eye come down with a disease or other malady, they become de facto spokespersons for whatever is afflicting them, and we can only hope that’ll be the case here.
   5. Dita October 2, 2020 at 9:41 am

      Has my cynicism reached the zenith (or nadir) for wondering if he’s bull[family blog], and will soon be crowing about how he got over it quickly and what a nothingburger covid is?
      1. voteforno6 October 2, 2020 at 9:47 am

         I’m sure that would go over well with people who had family members with severe symptoms or died from it.
      2. crittermom October 2, 2020 at 1:26 pm

         I hadn’t even thought of that. I’d always figured that he would never admit to contracting it if/when he did, so must confess I was surprised by the news.
         You comment makes me wonder if you’re not correct, however, since he & Melania always seem so ‘socially distant’ from each other I now find it suspicious they both contracted it. Hmm…

         Whatever. I’ve already wasted too much precious time in life being infuriated by him & his ilk (& I’m still recovering from that debacle of a debate, having watched the entire travesty).

         Time for something uplifting, like again watching that short video of the adorable young snow leopard being weighed in todays bonus antidote. (thanks, Lambert)
      3. Bernard Davis October 2, 2020 at 4:00 pm

         My thoughts also.
   6. IMOR October 2, 2020 at 9:43 am

      Please, people. Literally an October ‘surprise.’
      1. Oh October 2, 2020 at 1:42 pm

         Now if the other dodderin fool guy got it too and both aspirants to the VP crown did, we’d have the people win!
   7. anon in so cal October 2, 2020 at 9:45 am

      > Western science’s misguided approach to Covid: too much focus on R0 and not enough on k: fails to recognize this pathogen has triggered a stochastic, not a deterministic, process; its tests and its testing and contact-tracing protocols are consequently mistakenly focused on rooting out every individual case, whereas it’s preferable to seek out and eliminate clusters.

      (saw this on AE; apologies if it was already posted)

      https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/

      https://www.japanpolicyforum.jp/diplomacy/pt20200605162619.html
   8. lyman alpha blob October 2, 2020 at 9:49 am

      So Trump has the COVID. And what was Trump doing just a few days ago, perhaps when the virus was still in the contagious but undetectable phase? Aerosoling all over feeble old Joe Biden indoors for an hour and a half straight.

      If there were ever a time to wish for two birds with one stone…
      1. fresno dan October 2, 2020 at 10:52 am

         lyman alpha blob
         October 2, 2020 at 9:49 am

         I’m thinking of a whole flock…or better yet, an entire species. The Potomic yellow bellied purple crowned corrupted sap sucker…
      2. John Steinbach October 2, 2020 at 11:51 am

         Pence vs Harris? May be reality regardless.
         1. Skip Intro October 2, 2020 at 2:20 pm

            I imagine Trump will be feeling some pressure to use this excuse to duck out, in exchange for certain considerations to be named later. The hollowness of the Dems policy-free ‘I’m Not Trump’ campaign strategy is finally apparent to all.
   9. The Historian October 2, 2020 at 9:53 am

      I wouldn’t wish Covid on anyone – ever! But call me a cynic; I just don’t believe it. The timing is too convenient. He’s dropping in the polls, his debate was a complete farce, and I think he’s going after the sympathy vote now. And Biden can’t attack Trump any more because it isn’t a nice thing to attack a sick person.
      1. JWP October 2, 2020 at 11:29 am

         Biden CAN tell what he will do during this time which is a more effective strategy than attacking at this point. But we all know he’d be lying if he said he’d change anything.
2. Bill Smith October 2, 2020 at 7:27 am

   “The President Contracting COVID-19 Is A Major National Security Crisis”

   It’s been assumed that the president is incapacitated or dead in a lot of the nuclear war planning since about 1970 when the Soviet Union first started running SSBM patrols off the East Coast of the US after they demonstrated the ability to fire submarine launched ballistic missiles on a depressed trajectory.

   Even before that Kennedy is quoted as saying something along that lines that he been told to assume the Soviet Union had a small nuclear device in their Embassy.

   The US has spent a lot of money to be sure the government still respond.

   In this case, ironically, things may work better if Trump is incapacitated?
   1. cocomaan October 2, 2020 at 9:48 am

      Thanks for posting this. All the hand wringing about this is really unnecessary. We went through this 100 years ago with Woodrow Wilson, we have all the tools to ensure continuity no matter who the president is.

      If there was an ebola outbreak in the White House, things would also be fine.
   2. Skip Intro October 2, 2020 at 2:16 pm

      For those paid to start and equip wars, everything is a Major National Security Crisis, except for actual crises.
      I think we hit the trifecta, with major world misleads Bojo, Bolso, and now Trumpo going positive. And while the DNC and CAP crews are toasting, they should imagine what happens to their base of neocons and never-Trump repubs if Trump drops out for whatever reason, and it goes to Pence vs. Biden (or Harris).
3. bassmule October 2, 2020 at 7:28 am

   ”We think, and we hope, based on all signs that the problem goes away in A̶p̶r̶i̶l̶ November .”
   1. Stephen V. October 2, 2020 at 8:10 am

      After due deliberation, I’m voting for the asteroid:
      https://www.businessinsider.com/nasa-asteroid-headed-toward-earth-before-november-election-2020-8?op=1
4. fresno dan October 2, 2020 at 7:30 am

   Why is the world going to hell? Netflix’s The Social Dilemma tells only half the story Jonathan Cook

   It is true that social media is pushing us towards an event horizon. But then so is climate change, and so is our unsustainable global economy, premised on infinite growth on a finite planet….

   There is a conspiracy, but not of the Pizzagate variety. It is an ideological conspiracy, of at least two centuries’ duration, by a tiny and ever more fabulously wealth elite to further enrich themselves and to maintain their power, their dominance, at all costs.

   There is a reason why, as Harvard business professor Shoshana Zuboff points out, social media corporations are the most fantastically wealthy in human history…..

   The cause of that full-spectrum, systemic crisis is not named, but it has a name. Its name is the ideology that has become a black box, a mental prison, in which we have become incapable of imagining any other way of organising our lives, any other future than the one we are destined for at the moment. That ideology’s name is capitalism.
   1. Krystyn Podgajski October 2, 2020 at 8:00 am

      +1000
   2. Donald October 2, 2020 at 8:45 am

      I thought Jonathan Cook’s piece was self contradictory for the reasons you identify. I understand that social media is bad, but I don’t see how it is massively better at killing empathy than all that has come before. We have had genocides, slavery, child labor, man made famines, support for death squads, imperialist wars, torture and an ongoing mass extinction all before Facebook.
      1. hunkerdown October 2, 2020 at 10:33 am

         But we haven’t generally had people clamoring for famines, like Twitter oligarchs and their stans.

         Social media is more efficient at killing organic empathy because it allows attacks on empathic narratives to devolve to anonymous, irregular fire-and-move teams (#KHive), averting any acute or chronic social consequences of their violence, rather than proud but cumbersome MSM battleships whose names can be however weakly held to account for their lies.

         Odd that class orders don’t appear in that list of horrible things…
         1. Clem October 2, 2020 at 10:58 am

            My take away from the otherwise excellent video is that it makes suspect all authentic protest against government, or corporate rule, as though it were part of some online conspiracy theory.

            “These new corporations trade in human futures, just as other corporations have long traded in oil futures and pork-belly futures”…How about “youth futures”.

            If a Bernesian propagandist can convince a little girl that Tide is the best detergent, they have her buying it for life.
            If a 12 year old starts plugging her brain into Facebook and it’s advertisers, they have her for life in far more ways, to and including giving up her civil and constitutional rights.
         2. Donald October 2, 2020 at 1:54 pm

            Good grief. Completely unprovoked snark. I don’t know exactly what “class orders” even means, but I agree with what I am guessing might be your point—that classes exist, capitalism exists, workers are oppressed for the benefit of capitalists and that professional managerial class people largely side with the rich.

            I wasn’t trying to list all bad things but in the future if I try I will just forward people to you.
      2. jef October 2, 2020 at 12:28 pm

         Cook’s message is only partially about social media. As he points out several times it is the master system which we have allowed humanity to be structured under called capitalism or “the profit motive” that is at the root of all evil (my words) for a century or more. If you had read a little closer I am sure you would have seen this.

         I would also point out that it is capitalism that the US has been spreading around the world, at the point of a gun, not democracy. Which is why we will never have socialism.
   3. km October 2, 2020 at 9:49 am

      “Harvard business professor Shoshana Zuboff points out, social media corporations are the most fantastically wealthy in human history…..”

      The Dutch East India Company comes prominently to mind.
      1. barefoot charley October 2, 2020 at 1:05 pm

         The two national East India Companies dominated the Netherlands and, to a lesser extent, England, not even her colonies ;^]. Social media companies already dominate the world.
         1. km October 2, 2020 at 4:46 pm

            Neither the professor nor I wrote anything about domination.

            Although FB, etc. are a lot less influential outside the Anglosphere.
   4. Mummichog October 2, 2020 at 5:14 pm

      It is anti-social media, anti-human. A majority of our science/technology is anti-human, mostly controlled by sociopathic/psychopathic oligarchs or institutions. See Big Pharmaggedon and vaccine development. Aided by human psycho-socio researchers the human consciousness is being mined and slowly destroyed. Soon, the only content in a human brain will have been installed there by a machine.

      Gotta check my bottified messages……
5. lcn October 2, 2020 at 7:32 am

   Like BoJo, this “clown” will have first class medical help available to him and will probably recover.

   If he had not been cavalier about this disease, many of those 200,000 deaths could have been prevented.
   1. chris October 2, 2020 at 7:53 am

      I disagree.

      We had the CDC and others dispute masks and screw up testing. We had whole industries that would not have accepted the recommendations to combat COVID because they couldn’t without committing suicide (restaurants, bars, etc.). We had (and still have) a political class that refuses to consider things like M4A or a pandemic stipend to support citizens staying home. We had a liberal class of elites that would have accused the president of horrible things if he had taken it seriously and shut down interstate travel and closed the borders. The south and west would have reacted the way they did regardless of what the president said.

      This was, and remains, a disease that is hitting the US where it hurts and where we are uniquely vulnerable compared to many other countries. The one area where I think Trump could have been more of a leader was explaining what was going on with vaccines and the science so that more people would maybe trust it now. But I honestly think that no one would be reacting differently even then. That’s why Dr. Michael Osterholm and others gave their estimates back in February that this crisis would kill 500k Americans before we were done with it.
      1. lcn October 2, 2020 at 8:40 am

         Nope, countries which implemented stricter measures on lockdowns and mask wearing have significantly lower mortality rates. Look at China, with 1.3 billion people have less than 5,000 deaths.
         Five Thousand!
         1. Carolinian October 2, 2020 at 9:51 am

            Yes, seems almost too good to be true–because it probably isn’t true. Not that I have any more proof of my belief than you do of yours. But what we can say is that China is a place where information is absolutely controlled by the government.

            Also it has been suggested that the low rate among many Asian countries may have to do with antibodies from a previous Sars epidemic.

            I’m with Chris above. You could say that Trump deserves the blame for everything because he is so quick to take credit for everything but since we aren’t him we can more rationally conclude that Trump’s actual control over events is very limited. The president’s only real unchecked power these days is to bomb other countries. Theoretically he doesn’t have that power either but nobody seems interested in stopping him.
            1. lcn October 2, 2020 at 1:13 pm

               I don’t know how credible the WHO stats are but, as of today, these are the figures on its dashboard :

               USA – 7,160,476 confirmed cases
               – 205,666 deaths

               China – 91,082 confirmed cases
               – 4,746 deaths

               We could contest the minute accuracy of the Chinese figures but let’s not get overly bogged down on it and miss the bigger picture – which is that, taking this virus seriously and implementing measures to curb its spread will significantly lower the number of infections and, consequently, mortalities.

               There’s no denying that, of all our so-called leaders in Washington, the White House don had been the most vocal to downplay the dangers and, on several occasions, contradicted the advice of scientists and medical experts.

               That attitude, alone, has serious consequences in the fight against covid.
               1. Carolinian October 2, 2020 at 2:14 pm

                  Well the United States isn’t a tightly controlled country like China so you really are comparing apples and oranges. What the Chinese did would never fly here, even assuming they are telling the whole truth. Our deaths per million no worse than several European countries and if you leave out the Northeast possibly a lot better. Don’t forget that in the beginning the CDC was also pooh poohing masks etc and downplaying travel restrictions so the presumed expert advice has been all over the map.

                  And finally Trump is not in charge of heath care policy for the individual states as Cuomo keeps telling us. Trump really has little power in this situation other than verbal and if he did tell people to do something that would benefit them half the listeners would probably do the opposite just because he recommended it. Arguably what he should have done was shut up about the whole thing and turn it over to the health agencies.
                  1. lcn October 2, 2020 at 5:22 pm

                     If he were just Citizen Donald, all his tweets and pronouncements about the virus will not probably be as consequential as when he is the sitting POTUS.

                     If you don’t like the China example maybe Italy will be more instructive. It had its highest outbreak in mid-March (high of 6 thousand daily), then their government recalibrated the response – implemented lockdowns and mandatory mask wearing and has since tapered off their cases as of May til late August.

                     Complacency might be the reason for its recent spike of about a thousand daily.
               2. Cuibono October 2, 2020 at 11:35 pm

                  and it is not just China!
                  Lots of places doing well: korea, HK, Taiwan, Japan, Australia, Iceland, Germany

                  LOTS
            2. lordkoos October 2, 2020 at 3:22 pm

               Forget China then if you don’t trust the data — then what about examples such as Vietnam, New Zealand, Japan, etc?
               1. Wukchumni October 2, 2020 at 5:30 pm

                  NZ has a death rate from Covid of about 1,500 on a population based comparison to the USA, but thankfully it’s only 25 in total.
         2. dave October 2, 2020 at 10:06 am

            I don’t trust China’s reporting on this. At all.
            1. Katniss Everdeen October 2, 2020 at 10:54 am

               But it comes in pretty handy when you’re trying to get “made” in the TDS Society of America.
         3. hunkerdown October 2, 2020 at 10:42 am

            But you’re comparing a relatively internally aligned nation-state, where coherence is a benefit to the powers that be, to a deliberately divided, predatory market-state run on permanent divide-et-impera principles. Apples and oranges.
            1. lcn October 2, 2020 at 1:15 pm

               That’s why leadership matters.
         4. curlydan October 2, 2020 at 11:56 am

            actually, China has a higher mortality rate than the US with 4,739 deaths from 90,567 cases, but we could talk a long time about why that is.

            China did do better with its lockdown, but more importantly, they’re an “in your face” society while we’re more of a “get out of my face” society. In other words, if you tried to leave your apartment in China without a mask in lockdown or didn’t have the right papers to get into a housing complex, tough [bleep]. It wasn’t going to happen, or there would be a epic shouting match on the streets.

            china can be a super-annoying, paperwork laden society, but when you’re trying to control a virus, that can come in handy.
            1. lcn October 2, 2020 at 1:40 pm

               I’m sorry, I should just have said mortality instead of mortality rate.
            2. H October 2, 2020 at 6:34 pm

               There were no more cell phone videos from Wuhan after about 2-15 when the door welding vids came out. Conclusion: Internet / phone was CUT OFF. It was noted that cell phone accounts dropped ( for first time ever) by some 21 million thru 3-31. Conclusion? WAY More deaths than the 4,746 claimed. Considering not all Chinese have a phone, & many share accounts (just as here in US), this number could be a multiple of 21 million.
               4,746 is laughable. We overestimated but to a lesser degree probably.
         5. Lambert Strether Post authorOctober 2, 2020 at 3:41 pm

            > Nope, countries which implemented stricter measures

            Assume a stricter measure…

            There really are structural and systemic reasons why our response was as bad as it was. Picking an example because it’s vivid and I remember it, how many other countries had problems with contact tracing because their citizens refused to answer calls from unknown numbers because they were being hounded by debt collectors?
            1. Tim October 2, 2020 at 4:42 pm

               60% ignore phone calls to keep away for real debt collection calls, the other 40% ignore phone calls to keep away from the scam “debt reduction opportunity” robocalls.

               Contact tracing should be done by Txt message only.
            2. lordkoos October 2, 2020 at 7:36 pm

               I don’t answer unknown numbers because of all the political calls as well as other junk robo-calls. I’m sure there are many who do the same.
      2. Brooklin Bridge October 2, 2020 at 8:54 am

         Your points are valid but they don’t contradict Icn‘s claim. It is not either or. Trump’s cavalier attitude, particularly as expressed on face masks and their value (lack of it), but also just in general that SARS Cov-2 was not all that serious a threat, not to mention all the ludicrous and surreal disagreements with his own scientists/specialists, almost certainly resulted directly and indirectly in COVID-19 cases – likely many of them – and deaths that could have been prevented.

         That said, I take no satisfaction in Trump and Melania’s contraction of the virus on a personal level or, particularly, on how it will play out in terms of public perception and influence. If he remains asymptomatic or gets exceptional medical help not available to the public and thus breezes through, it may result in a deadly trivialization of the danger – an “I told you so” attitude on the part of many who still believe COVID-19 is way over-hyped. Talk about potential lives lost. On the other hand, if he gets a bad case or succumbs, we \the country will go through a wrenching mess of a political process at a terrible point in time.

         This compounds but does not negate the problems of the CDC and other related organizations.

         It may be too much to ask, but one ‘good’ outcome would be if Trump pulls through and changes his attitude towards the virus and the efforts to bring it under control.
         1. JTMcPhee October 2, 2020 at 9:57 am

            Boris didn’t change.

            And the anti crowd would, I believe, have still done the party-hearty and mass churching idiocy that apparently did a lot to spread the disease.

            Stupid is a big part of “freedumb.”
            1. Brooklin Bridge October 2, 2020 at 3:05 pm

               You loose me. Boris didn’t change (too much to ask) and the anti crowd continued to party hardy and that suggests they would have done so anyway? Huh?? I may be missing something.

               I have no formal proof, but I’ve met a lot of people who convince me in ways obvious and less so that they are influenced to a varying degree by the POTUS (don;t know enough about PM), and what he (so far) says, often more so than they would admit to. Whether the POTUS influences them in things they already have a leaning toward makes no difference to me in assessing his/her agency. That such influence also has real life consequences, I have no doubt.

               I have listened to my parents and others of their generation talk about Roosevelt’s fireside chats, for instance, and they were profoundly influenced. More recently, and more negatively, I have worked with people closely who took up the “axis of evil” line of thinking to describe anything middle eastern immediately after little bush came up with that gem. His pounding that message into misplaced patriotism – I believe – went a long way in getting an uncritical acceptance of the weapons of mass destruction canard by a segment of the public that was perhaps prone to such jingoism before hand, but that was ‘sold’ (or was that much closer to sold) on an entirely unprovoked war when the POTUS put his seal on it.
         2. KevinD October 2, 2020 at 10:03 am

            We had the CDC and others dispute masks and screw up testing.

            because it became a political football. (imo).

            Either you believe the virus is a threat or you don’t.

            Trump became his followers chief scientist on this disease and now we and he are suffering the consequences. Karma.
            1. dave October 2, 2020 at 11:08 am

               Is there any data at all to support this? Any surveys where people said, because President Trump did this, I did it too?

               The US is a country with a porous border and is based on rebellion and individualism uber alles. Our numbers reflect that.

               Countries that have done really well so far have different cultural values, are islands, have some built in immunity, etc.
               1. Wukchumni October 2, 2020 at 11:12 am

                  Know any other countries in the midst of Covid where the populace is as divided on masks as we are?
               2. KevinD October 2, 2020 at 11:59 am

                  No, I have seen no hard data supporting my view above.
                  I have seen no hard data contradicting my view either. Knowing trump and his followers, to me it is intuitive, they feel “what’s good enough for trump, is good enough for me”.

                  As for your second point – i agree., countries whose citizens are taught to follow directives from above without question have tended to fair better – for obvious reasons.

                  On the flip-side, would those same countries have fared better if the directive from above was “It’s all an elaborate hoax and will soon “disappear”? Methinks not.
               3. Cuibono October 3, 2020 at 12:57 am

                  Countries that have done well so far are as different from one another as they are from the US
            2. Lambert Strether Post authorOctober 2, 2020 at 3:46 pm

               > because it became a political football. (imo).

               The CDC screwed up testing all on its own. As for masking, both Fauci and WHO lied, albeit nobly, about masks being effective because they wanted to preserve then for professional use.

               What on earth were they thinking? Could they not imagine the blowback?
               1. Cuibono October 3, 2020 at 12:59 am

                  CDC has been heavily politicized from some time. testing was not immune to that
         3. shinola October 2, 2020 at 10:11 am

            “…If he remains asymptomatic or gets exceptional medical help not available to the public and thus breezes through, it may result in a deadly trivialization of the danger – an “I told you so” attitude on the part of many who still believe COVID-19 is way over-hyped. Talk about potential lives lost..”

            Yep – This is the outcome that could potentially turn out to be the worst case scenario. .
            1. Synoia October 2, 2020 at 11:07 am

               The solution to a mild case, is for all the get the same level of care as Trump.

               Somehow I doubt Trump’s level of care is a trip to the local emergency room, and a 3 hour wait.
      3. lyman alpha blob October 2, 2020 at 9:40 am

         Indeed. Someone linked to a Jimmy Dore clip yesterday and Pelosi basically admits that she has lots of political power, but she isn’t going to push for any relief for the public because she doesn’t want checks with Trump’s name on them going out before the election.

         The Democrat party had played politics with Covid just as much as Trump, the public be damned.

         And even then, I’m not so sure about all the claims that x number of deaths would have been prevented “if only…. “. Sometimes it’s just bad luck. Africa has had much milder outbreaks than much of the rest of the world and I’m guessing cities like Lagos didn’t exactly cover themselves in PPE.

         If it is the case however that quicker and correct action would have prevented many deaths, it would seem that the Democrat politicians in NY who presided over the worst outbreak in the world and recommended COVID patients be transferred to nursing homes might deserve quite a bit of the blame. If there is one thing we have known for sure about COVID since it began spreading, it’s that it affects the elderly worse than others.
         1. Katniss Everdeen October 2, 2020 at 10:41 am

            Hey, this would be a good time for that “hold random shitty, corrupt politician x’s feet to the fire” thing.

            Lots of people say it works. They should get on it.
         2. Noone from Nowheresville October 2, 2020 at 2:15 pm

            I got behind in links so missed the Jimmy Dore link comments. I did happen to view that clip which prompted me to look for the full interview.

            There is a full transcript. I think it’s worth reading in full because the 2nd most powerful public figure in the nation is in her own tiny great show bubble. When one gets down to brass tacks she says nothing, yet everything. If that makes sense.

            https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/21/opinion/sway-kara-swisher-nancy-pelosi.html?showTranscript=1
            1. lyman alpha blob October 2, 2020 at 3:37 pm

               Thanks for that. Here’s another gem from Pelosi –

               And he dishonored the chamber of the House of Representatives by being so political. We don’t do that.

               The US House of Representatives is simply no place for politics! The sausage gets made at the country club lounge out of view of the hoi polloi.
   2. Youngblood October 2, 2020 at 9:17 am

      Trump will likely suffer less than BoJo did. BoJo has a reputation in UK as a user of a certain inhaled (snorted) contraband narcotic. This pastime may have compromised his respiratory system. Trump, in contrast, is a teatotaller.
      1. vlade October 2, 2020 at 9:20 am

         Trump, on the other hand, is fairly older than Johnson. I’d not take any bets either way TBH.
   3. Katniss Everdeen October 2, 2020 at 9:41 am

      You cannot possibly “know” what you are claiming to “know.”
      1. Synoia October 2, 2020 at 11:10 am

         I’m agreeing with you, that’s the old “Liars figure and figures lie condition.”
   4. anon in so cal October 2, 2020 at 9:47 am

      On Feb. 29, Obamacare designer aka Biden’s health advisor, Dr. Zeke Emanuel, told CNN:

      “running out and getting a mask is not going to help”

      #Biden held rallies until March 9
      1. Big River Bandido October 2, 2020 at 10:26 am

         Biden also insisted that several states hold only in-person Democrat primaries, putting the party’s rank and file voters at risk.
      2. Katniss Everdeen October 2, 2020 at 10:31 am

         dr. zeke was obviously under the spell of Trump’s “cavalier attitude.”

         As was nancy pelosi when she went to Chinatown on Feb.24 and said, “Come join us,” later explaining herself with the decidedly un-cavalier

         “I thought it was necessary to offset some of the things the president and others were saying.”
      3. Andrew Thomas October 2, 2020 at 1:01 pm

         Trump had control of the government and by his own admission was lying about what he himself knew. I went to a large wedding in a jam-packed church on Feb. 29. The wait staff at the reception wore gloves. There were no masks. That is because there WERE NO MASKS. For ANYBODY. It wasn’t until the NBA, NHL and MLB cancelled EVERYTHING that I, at least, realized that this was major. Medical professionals treating people in hospitals were wearing ski masks and cut-up 55 gallon garbage can liners as PPE. I was wearing bandanas that my ex-wife got for free with decades-ago Lillian Vernon orders for weeks. For reasons still mysterious to me, people were- and some still are- hoarding toilet paper. The statements of Fauci and maybe even Zeke have to be read in the context of the madness that would have ensued that would have deprived front-line medical staff of the masks they definitely had to have. Meanwhile, Trump tells the entire country it’s on its own, and they were bidding against each other for the stuff. And Trump sent goons from FEMA out to confiscate from hospitals the PPE that they had overpaid for, with no explanation, or accountability. And, within days, the Jerusalem Post reported that a million masks had arrived from the US DOD for the IDF, which post was modified within hours. I know a lot of water had flowed over the dams, bridges, and cities since then, but that all happened. Trump had dismantled the pandemic task force because Obama set it up. Neoliberals had destroyed our ability to make masks and longish q-tips. Those neoliberals included nearly everyone in both parties. And Trump told the states to deal with it, and said it was a Democratic hoax, and then that it was just a little flu that would just go away, and then blamed China which still manufactures all of the masks I have ever seen. And he knew the whole time that this was very dangerous. But, Biden held rallies until March 13, so they’re even?
         1. Andrew Thomas October 2, 2020 at 1:07 pm

            March 9.
         2. lyman alpha blob October 2, 2020 at 1:29 pm

            The Democrat party has been playing politics at the expense of the public too. There was an interview with Pelosi recently that Jimmy Dore highlighted where she says she doesn’t want checks with Trump’s name on them going out to the public before the election, therefore she isn’t going to put up too much of a fuss about it all before November. In the mean time, people can go die.

            And Trump ‘had control of the government’?!? Yeah we’re pretty screwed up in the USofA but last I checked old Nancy Creamsicle still doesn’t shout “How low” every time Trump shouts “Bow down”.

            Trumop isn’t a dictator and others in government have power as well. They could have done something, but didn’t.

            So yeah, even.
         3. Lambert Strether Post authorOctober 2, 2020 at 3:53 pm

            > Trump told the states to deal with it

            I think people have 9/11 in their minds as a precedent, when the whole country was united, Bush had 80% approval ratings, and the AUMF and the USA Patriot Act were both passed in a surge of bipartisan unity.

            Leaving aside that all of the actions were debacles or worse, does anybody believe that level of unity could possibly exist in 2020? What’s the scenario where that happens? Trump calls Mnuchin, Pence, Fauci, Pelosi, and Schumer together into the Oval Office and says “Let’s work together on this?” They’d all be trying to knife each other.
            1. lordkoos October 2, 2020 at 7:52 pm

               What I find particularly sad is that at this point two generations have grown up never knowing a functional government. There was a time when bipartisanship was a real thing. Now it’s always party before country.
         4. anon in so cal October 2, 2020 at 5:31 pm

            >Obama and Biden failed to create a system to obtain, manage, and centralize health data from public health depts, hospitals, states—-making it difficult to implement tracing, etc. to fight a COVIDー19 pandemic (article posted here a short while ago discussing missteps by Obama and Biden. If I read it correctly (only skimmed it due to time constraints) )

            https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/09/update-on-federal-covid-19-data-at-hhs-hysteria-on-teletracking-data-manipulation-unwarranted-but-concern-on-palintir-surveillance-oddly-muted.html

            >Further, even as late as July 22, 239 experts wrote a letter to the WHO asking it to acknowledge the role of aerosols. The CDC also dragged its feet in that regard. If Trump had told the populace the virus was airborne earlier on, what would the reaction have been?

            >Trump “never called the virus a “hoax” – contrary to several viral social media posts….The confusion may have stemmed from rambling remarks way back in February, when he accused Democrats of “politicising the coronavirus” – then talked about his impeachment, calling it a “hoax” and criticism of his handling of Covid-19 “their new hoax.””

            https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-54387438
            1. lordkoos October 2, 2020 at 7:53 pm

               But wasn’t Trump on record as saying that “the virus will magically disappear after the election”?
   5. Lambert Strether Post authorOctober 2, 2020 at 3:54 pm

      > I think it has nothing to do with a number, and everything to do with wealth. If the so called 1% (actually more like 0.01%) are affected, DC will act and provide trillions.

      Well, Covid hit Seattle and then Manhattan first. Deaths of despair didn’t. So there you are.
6. JohnH October 2, 2020 at 7:46 am

   Planet Zoo is a PC game, a zoo management simulator. Just like, FYI, lest anyone thinks that is a photo of a large cat. Still a nice screen cap :)
   1. ambrit October 2, 2020 at 8:11 am

      ‘PC’ has multiple and not mutually exclusive meanings in this context.
   2. Basil Pesto October 2, 2020 at 8:29 am

      I hear it’s pretty good. Planet Coaster was fun.
   3. diptherio October 2, 2020 at 12:33 pm

      Yeah, I thought the CG antidote was a little weird.
      1. CoryP October 3, 2020 at 7:25 am

         Thank god, I thought I was losing my mind when I scrolled past and thought CG.
7. The Rev Kev October 2, 2020 at 7:51 am

   Anybody think that Mike Pompeo might channel Al Haig by flying down to Washington, push aside Mike Pence, Nancy Pelosi & Chuck Grassley then say “I’m in control here” ? I wouldn’t put it past him. There are of course other consequences through Trump and his wife falling sick.

   I am detecting a coordinated campaign against Trump such as Republicans backing a Democratic contender, Bob Woodward’s politically timed book, etc. but this event will undermine this effort. There has just been released secret recordings of Melania Trump that would ordinarily have undermined her. In the same way that the MSM published nude photos of her back in 2016.

   But now? Are they really going to go after a sick women, perhaps soon in a hospital bed? The TV comedians will yuck it up but probably most people will wish him a bad bout of this virus but without dying of it. Let him share their pain. For a lot of people it does not look good to attack a person when they are sick as most people are decent. And it is this effect that will undermine the campaign against him.
   1. pjay October 2, 2020 at 8:19 am

      “There’s an E-6B Mercury off the east coast near DC. I looked because I would expect them to pop up if he tests positive…”

      My first thought was whether anyone knew the whereabouts of Dick Cheney.
      1. Kurt Sperry October 2, 2020 at 10:19 am

         A comment down from the Tweet responsibly notes that there is demonstrably nothing remotely unusual about that plane being up in the air.

         “These appear to be routine flights. There’s seems to be at least one E6B Mercury in the skies above the United States almost every day for at least the past month.”

         Sorry for the buzzkill.
         1. pjay October 2, 2020 at 11:10 am

            No buzzkill at all. Knowing they’ve been up there *for at least the past month* just tells me that “someone” has been preparing for this moment for a while!

            (Also: my comment was sarcasm. But including the /s tag just seems to detract from it somehow.)
   2. ambrit October 2, 2020 at 8:19 am

      I do agree with your sentiments here but must observe that we are not dealing with “most people” as the target groups of such communicatory malignancies. The “campaign against Trump,” brings to mind Cato the Censor’s political campaign of “Carthago delenda est.” I have seen it argued that his success at that campaign weakened the Roman State in the long run. The same can be argued about today’s events in the Modern Empire.
      We are going to be suffering from the fallout from Trump Derangement Syndrome for decades to come.
   3. Wukchumni October 2, 2020 at 8:21 am

      Even though the Vatican rejected his advances the other day, you can see him crossing the amalgam finish line leading us to the theocracy promised land as ‘Mo’ Pope’, and while we’re at it, Mike makes the Donald look like a waif.
   4. Carolinian October 2, 2020 at 10:03 am

      will undermine this effort.

      Someone said before the debate that Trump would win if he could do something to show he is human. Could this finally be it?

      Some think (me) that if Trump had done many of the things he talked about originally and stopped tweeting and chose to behave like a normal president he could be quite popular. Clearly though he doesn’t have it in him to be much more than an egomaniacal blowhard–no sudden acquisition of dignity with the mantel of power like Henry V.
   5. Keith Howard October 2, 2020 at 10:20 am

      I like to imagine Pompeo Maximus inflating out of control with vainglorious arrogance and actually exploding.
      1. lyman alpha blob October 2, 2020 at 12:39 pm

         I like to imagine him suffering the same fate as the ancient Roman Pompey you just referred to.

         But either way, he’s a goner, so I won’t be picky.
   6. Michaelmas October 2, 2020 at 2:32 pm

      Anybody think that Mike Pompeo might channel Al Haig by flying down to Washington, push aside Mike Pence

      No. Both Pence and Pompeo are creatures of the Koch network, and Pence appears to stand higher in it and be more valued.

      Also, as someone else points out down-thread, if Pence should replace Trump, most of the Never-Trump Republicans would be back aboard with the party.
8. chris wardell October 2, 2020 at 7:52 am

   Trump Just Delivered the Ultimate October Surprise
   And
   I’m worried that if Trump is incapacitated, the entire country will be plunged into stability.
   1. chris October 2, 2020 at 8:00 am

      I agree fellow Chris!

      The mind reels at the stage managed possibilities. What happens if Biden ghoulish relishes his opponents illness? What happens if Trump beats it and others in his circle don’t? What happens if it runs through the DC elite and someone like Pelosi or Justice Breyer dies from it? What happens if Pence assumes the presidency and trounces Biden because Pence is a more dangerous and better controlled tyrant? What happens if one or more of our enemies make an attack of opportunity right now?

      I would really appreciate it if 2020 could be a little more boring. Just for the remainder of the year…please?
      1. JTMcPhee October 2, 2020 at 10:12 am

         Not too hard to believe that a state security bunch that has offed elected leaders, plotted to make their beards fall out, and shown implacable disdain for Trump May also have been instrumental in dosing Trump et ux with CV.

         And of course there would never be any provable act. All it takes is a cough or sneeze or squirt from one of those weapons we don’t have, https://listverse.com/2014/03/22/10-diabolical-spy-weapons/

         President Pence taking the oath of office, intoning in his studied evangelical voice, “It is with the greatest sadness,,,”

         Nah, could never happen here….
         1. fresno dan October 2, 2020 at 11:04 am

            JTMcPhee
            October 2, 2020 at 10:12 am

            I’m thinking that claiming Trump has covid is a cover for Novichok
   2. WobblyTelomeres October 2, 2020 at 8:03 am

      And Pence is suffering a near existential crisis, torn between his faith and an insuppressible urge to dance. Pelosi, meanwhile, is expressing great concern over the VP’s health.
   3. JacobiteInTraining October 2, 2020 at 8:08 am

      :..plunged into stability….”

      Heehee, am tempted to steal that… :)
      1. Tom Doak October 2, 2020 at 12:36 pm

         Stability, in this political age, is a ridiculous notion. Biden is shaky at best, so whichever side is elected, there is sure to be more than the usual amount of jockeying for power behind the scenes. And if Trump has to relinquish control for a while? A vacuum will eventually create stability, but only once all the oxygen is gone.
9. anon October 2, 2020 at 7:57 am

   Serious questions. What happens if Trump has to withdraw at this point? Does the RNC appoint a candidate? What happens if either candidate is elected but becomes incapacitated or dies before inauguration? Does the VP-elect become president or does it go to the House?
   1. AnonyMouse October 2, 2020 at 8:18 am

      As I understand it, and I was only looking into this yesterday…

      If a Presidential candidate dies *at any time* before the Electoral College meet on Jan 6, then it is up to a vote of the Party to replace them. The RNC or DNC would vote to replace Trump or Biden. So that’s right up until not only the election, but also afterwards.

      The only time at which, say, a Trump or Biden death would mean they were automatically replaced by their VP is when the VP becomes VP-elect and the President becomes President-elect. So that’s the two weeks between the Electoral College vote, which actually determines the President, and inauguration day.

      It is arguably *likely* that for all sorts of reasons they would indeed pick the VP or VP nominee, but it’s not necessary for that to happen.

      One interesting historical note is the precedent for this which comes from Horace Greeley, the losing candidate in the 1872 election. Greeley died after the election but before the electoral college met. The electoral college members split; some voted for Greeley’s VP, and others for another candidate. Votes still cast for Greeley were invalidated, because he was dead.

      Because he was soundly beaten, this didn’t impact the race. But, if no candidate receives an overall majority (271+) in the Electoral College, then you go to this procedure where the House delegations (i.e. one state one vote, so favouring Republicans) pick the President and the Senate picks the VP.

      So there’s a whole bunch of bizarre scenarios if the electors split or if no overall majority can be reached, which could be more likely to happen in the event of a candidate’s death upturning things. Maybe a Dem Senate picks Harris as VP to go along with Trump as President. Who can say?

      Constitutional reform is long overdue. Do away with the lame duck period (transfer of power should just be ASAP), do away with the absurd electoral college nonsense and its ridiculous arcane voting rules, and you won’t have these bizarre constitutional scenarios at all.
      1. a different chris October 2, 2020 at 9:59 am

         Are you sure? I thought it was simpler than that – we elect Electors. Nothing more, nothing less.

         They decide. They can pick anybody.
         1. fresno dan October 2, 2020 at 11:15 am

            a different chris
            October 2, 2020 at 9:59 am

            I am almost certain, that of all the possibilities, that the dead one, of whichever party, would be our best one.
            Seriously, why hasn’t anyone thought of that before? Pat Paulson can’t possibly still be allive – let’s elect him…
         2. AnonyMouse October 2, 2020 at 12:18 pm

            Chris –

            right, yes, but the electors would be instructed who to vote for by the Party. They can of course ignore that advice and do what they wish.
      2. Big River Bandido October 2, 2020 at 10:29 am

         The party has already nominated the candidate. If the candidate dies prior to election or (if victorious) inauguration, the party has already chosen the replacement. (The VP nominee).
      3. notabanker October 2, 2020 at 1:24 pm

         Trump dying before the election would be the DNC’s worst nightmare. They have spent a good five years painting him as the boogieman.
   2. John October 2, 2020 at 8:35 am

      The House chooses only when no one has a majority of electoral votes. The deceased president elect would have sufficient votes likewise the VP elect.I think by a mechanism I cannot spell out that the vice president elect would become president. I suspect this scenario has been thought through and if not it would be.
      1. Biph October 2, 2020 at 9:12 am

         I’m curious how the VP position would work if the death occurred after the election but before the EC meets. Would the VP elect get to choose someone who would be then be chosen by the EC or would they have to nominate someone who would then have to get confirmed by the Senate?
         1. NotTimothyGeithner October 2, 2020 at 9:32 am

            So…in other federal races, the deceased have been “seated” but I guess failed to show up for the job due to being dead. Or at least there is no designated replacement. A special electionn is held or depending on the length of the senate term then an appointee is made. The VP is inaugurated anyway, so I’m thinking the process would remain the same except there would be no cabinet-senate activities because there is no president-elect. The VP would then take the Presidential oath of office and become the President by 12:05 pm on inauguration day.

            I think there would just be the VP elect in the Presidential candidate has 270 electoral votes.
            1. Biph October 2, 2020 at 9:47 am

               If the President-elect dies before the EC meets I assume the EC would just vote the VP-elect to POTUS. What then happens to the Vice Presidency, would the EC choose a VP who was not on the ballot or would the position require nomination and approval after the new President has been sworn in?
            2. fresno dan October 2, 2020 at 11:18 am

               NotTimothyGeithner
               October 2, 2020 at 9:32 am

               your assuming, despite overwhelming evidence, that the live one is better than the dead one. All I am saying is give dead ones a chance….
         2. Big River Bandido October 2, 2020 at 10:47 am

            The VP automatically succeeds to the “slot” at any point after the election.

            Any vacancy in the VP office is filled by the new President (the newly-risen VP) via appointment and Senate confirmation; this process has already been used twice — in the appointments of Gerald Ford and Nelson Rockefeller in 1973 and ‘74 to fill vacancies in the presidency.
   3. Wukchumni October 2, 2020 at 8:38 am

      I’m thinking Willard is waiting in the wings should the pachyderms need a new candidate, and he recently proved he’s a team player by saying he’ll give ACB the nod, and also has brand name recognition from losing 8 years ago.

      The evangs aren’t really into Mormonism which sunk his bid way back when, but he’s better than Pence. (low bar)
      1. Wukchumni October 2, 2020 at 9:39 am

         Rethinking this, what if Barron becomes the first President Regent, should daddy not be able to continue?
         1. ambrit October 2, 2020 at 12:41 pm

            Nah. It’s more probable that Addison, the First of That Name will be “Prince Reagent.” (How’s that for “mixing it up?”)
10. dougie October 2, 2020 at 8:00 am

    The quote that is coming to mind this morning?

    “If he dies, he dies.”
    -Ivan Drago in Rocky 4

    I wish I were a kinder, more evolved human being than one who delights in the potential suffering of others. Guess I’ll be a saint some other day(shrugs).
    1. NotTimothyGeithner October 2, 2020 at 9:46 am

       It’s not kindness but performative ingrained behavior. If Trump was a private citizen, sure, but he’s not. I saw an excellent point made by Eoin Higgins on twitter, but an outpouring of grief for Trump can’t go with calling him a traitor for 3 years.

       Oh no what will poor Baron think? It’s probably time for him to figure it out, but he probably already knows.
11. jefemt October 2, 2020 at 8:06 am

    I simply had to go over to Zero Hedge to read their headline and story on Trumps alleged contraction of Covid.
    First, I am truly skeptical… so much mendacity from that Tribe, why believe them now?

    The potentialities of how this bounces… my head spins.

    But, the best part at Zero Hedge —as usual, is comments. Any Vaccine is the Mark of the Beast.

    I know I am not prepared at all for what October will bring us.

    Exhaustion, at a minimum!
    1. Mikel October 2, 2020 at 10:59 am

       For all the bluster, very frightened people on ZH.
    2. lordkoos October 2, 2020 at 3:31 pm

       I view the comments on ZH as the worst part of the site…
12. Krystyn Podgajski October 2, 2020 at 8:14 am

    This woman running for Congress is thinking Trump got COVID-19 from “the left”.

    https://twitter.com/deanna4congress/status/1311959767842250752?s=21
    1. Brooklin Bridge October 2, 2020 at 9:36 am

       What depressing comments on that thread! What they will be like if Trump and/or Melania don’t make it is very dark.
    2. jo6pac October 2, 2020 at 9:40 am

       I thought it might have been Russia, China, or Iran so I’m glad it some one like me a lefty;-)

       dougie, I agree with you
    3. Dalepues October 2, 2020 at 10:42 am

       “I’m just going to say what we’re all thinking.”

       So she can read minds. She should be a shoo-in.
13. The Rev Kev October 2, 2020 at 8:16 am

    “Building the Mathematical Library of the Future”

    So its ‘a software program called Lean. It’s a “proof assistant” that, in principle, can help mathematicians write proofs.’ They should really beware the Law of Unintended Consequences. So suppose they hooked up a module so that they could talk to the damn thing. Then one day, Lean tells a room full of the world’s top mathematicians that in revising for proof, that it has detected an error and that as a consequence, all mathematics after this mistake will have to be redone. The mathematicians, impatiently glancing at their watches, asked the date of the mistake so they can take a guess how long the calculations will take to correct the error.

    So Lean replies: “Time of mistake – 495 BC.”
    1. ambrit October 2, 2020 at 8:24 am

       *Gasp!* You mean that Pythagoras was right about the “Music of the Spheres” all along? Not even Lovecraft could have imagined that!
    2. shtove October 2, 2020 at 9:25 am

       Didn’t Godel already announce that, with his theorems of incompleteness? After a brief episode of despondency, the mathematicians just carried on.
       1. Gaianne October 3, 2020 at 12:37 am

          shtove–

          This is, I believe, a very good point. An immediate corollary of Goedel’s Incompleteness Theorem is there can be no formal proof that arithmetic is self-consistent. Though this is alarming, it does not actually mean that 2 + 2 will suddenly turn out to equal 5–nor do we expect that to happen. But on the other hand, the only hope of proving arithmetic to be consistent is an informal proof–a proof not expressed nor expressible in formal logic.

          This is just one example. Certainly many interesting mathematical theorems will lack any formal proof and will only be provable through informal methods.

          All this has been known since the 1930s. And yes, after “a brief episode of despondency”, the mathematicians did just carry on as though nothing had happened.

          The Library of the Future seems to be living in the past.

          –Gaianne
    3. Lee October 2, 2020 at 9:27 am

       I blame the Pythagorean fundamentalists who drowned Hippasus for revealing the existence of irrational numbers.
       1. Alex morfesis October 2, 2020 at 10:18 am

          The world was not ready for that irrational thingee…we pythz had to act fast for the good of all (us important people not ready to give up power…)
          1. Late Introvert October 2, 2020 at 7:41 pm

             Yeth, pithy.
    4. lyman alpha blob October 2, 2020 at 12:47 pm

       That is reminiscent of a great short story by Ted Chiang, the guy who wrote the story that the movie Arrival was based on, where a mathematician is able to prove that 2+2 does NOT equal four and the basis of all mathematics is wrong. Hijinks ensue – fun stuff!
14. allan October 2, 2020 at 8:19 am

    Four years ago to the day:

    The Telegraph @Telegraph

    Donald Trump mocks Hillary Clinton over her pneumonia outbreak

    4:07 PM · Oct 2, 2016

    As did many at NC, IIRC.
    1. a different chris October 2, 2020 at 10:04 am

       We hate our “betters” in equal measure here.

       It doesn’t even matter what we think “should be done”, whoever we vote for doesn’t do it. So why should we not snigger when Mother Nature treats them no better than us mud-dwellers?
    2. The Rev Kev October 2, 2020 at 10:30 am

       Not to be confused with the time that she collapsed at the 2016 9/11 Commemorations on a nice sunny day and was thrown in to the back of a van like a sack of potatoes with a screen of secret service people trying to hide it. People frowned at mentioning this inconvenient truth about a Presidential candidate at the time but now four years later people get hostile when you point out that the 2020 democratic Presidential candidate has demonstrable symptoms of dementia. So, progress?
    3. edmondo October 2, 2020 at 10:33 am

       You have to be a DNC acolyte to believe that Hillary had “pneumonia.”

       I come from a long line of Irish drunks. Hills would fit right in like a corpse at a funeral.
15. NoOneInParticular October 2, 2020 at 8:20 am

    Re “On the case of COVID-19 that POTUS and FLOTUS both have…”

    TV lights run much cooler than they did in the sweaty Nixon era, but still add some warmth to a room. Studios tend to be kept quite cool in deference to the equipment. As for contact tracing, it’s possible the White House entourage could turn out to be an enormous superspreader. From The Washington Post:

    “After White House officials learned of Hicks’ symptoms, Trump and his entourage flew to New Jersey, where he attended a fundraiser and delivered a speech. Trump was in close contact with dozens of other people, including campaign supporters at a roundtable event.”
16. Eureka Springs October 2, 2020 at 8:33 am

    Interesting tweet.

    Carole Cadwalladr
    @carolecadwalla
    ·
    5h
    A reminder to all Americans that the net effect of our prime minister catching COVID-19 was that it prompted a surge of patriotic support. From which he emerged with renewed popularity. Which enabled him to tear up key functions of the state
    1. PlutoniumKun October 2, 2020 at 9:12 am

       Yup, Johnson definitely got a sympathy bounce from it, despite his behaviour earlier in the pandemic being far worse than Trumps, who at least never denied that catching it could be serious.
17. Ella October 2, 2020 at 8:35 am

    Not sure I believe trump has covid. Awfully convenient excuse for no more debates and shutting him up until the election. And he can emerge saying I’m fine, the virus is just a bad cold, no biggie blah blah blah
    1. Biph October 2, 2020 at 8:51 am

       But that would require Trump agreeing that he needs to shut up and that I just cannot see.
    2. chris wardell October 2, 2020 at 8:53 am

       why than say his wife has covid?
       1. Ella October 2, 2020 at 10:10 am

          Collateral damage? Make it seem more real?
    3. vlade October 2, 2020 at 9:08 am

       I’d post some screenshots from Elite Dangerous :D
       1. vlade October 2, 2020 at 9:13 am

          oops, wrong thread.
    4. rusti October 2, 2020 at 10:50 am

       I agree with the instinct towards cynicism but have a tough time imagining the potential upside. It makes him look a bit incompetent, managed the pandemic poorly and caught it himself. Who is going to vote for him who wasn’t already going to because he got COVID-19? BoJo got it early in the pandemic and I think attitudes have changed since then.
       1. Ella October 2, 2020 at 1:33 pm

          Dunno. Maybe he has the virus and doesn’t run for president? Maybe the Republicans had enough and are shutting him up? He can then be pardoned for all his nonsense and avoid any jail, etc etc. Who knows, time will tell….
    5. Maritimer October 2, 2020 at 5:27 pm

       Medical professionals would have to be involved for such a deception. It is extremely hard to believe that any US medical professionals would be involved in such fraud and deceit. Possibly, that could happen in a Third World S******e country but never in the United States.
       1. Cuibono October 3, 2020 at 1:08 am

          your joking i take it
18. zagonostra October 2, 2020 at 8:37 am

    >Trump Commercials

    Has anyone noticed how skillfully new Trump commercials running that feature clips from the recent Presidential debates are constructed?

    I watched the debates and thought they were horrid. I watched the commercials that popped up on my Y-Tube viewings and thought they were pretty damn good. Whoever put those commercials together took some lemons and made some potently laced lemonade.
19. The Rev Kev October 2, 2020 at 8:38 am

    “Former QAnon Followers Explain What Drew Them In — And Got Them Out”

    Anybody notice with this Rolling Stones article that you could rewrite it but talk about somebody suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome? It works either way. So perhaps the more important question is what has bred a relatively large number of people who are ready to believe in QAnon on one side, and Russiagate on the other. Was it the degradation of education in the part forty years. The rise of the internet enabling like minded people coming together online? Perhaps it was just the fire-hose of stories coming out of the media that is responsible or even a combination of all three factors.
    1. dougie October 2, 2020 at 9:39 am

       Degradation of Education FTW!

       In the early 70’s my AP high school teachers dragged me kicking and screaming, and demanded I learn to think critically. I didn’t appreciate it at the time, but it stuck.
    2. km October 2, 2020 at 9:53 am

       I am yet to meet a Russiagate conspiracy theorist who eventually got wise.

       Like most people with cognitive dissonance, instead, they just keep on doubling down.
20. pjay October 2, 2020 at 8:43 am

    ‘Efficacy and Safety of Hydroxychloroquine vs Placebo for Pre-exposure SARS-CoV-2 Prophylaxis Among Health Care Workers: A Randomized Clinical Trial’ – JAMA.

    I didn’t see Zinc mentioned in the abstract. IIRC that is a crucial part of the treatment according to reputable advocates of HCQ. Did I miss it?
    1. pjay October 2, 2020 at 8:48 am

       From the article:

       “Conflict of Interest Disclosures: Dr Frank reports consulting income from Gilead. Dr Milone reports royalty income from patents licensed to Novartis that is unrelated to hydroxychloroquine. Dr Amaravadi is the scientific founder and holds equity in Pinpoint Therapeutics, Inc. He is coinventor on patents covering autophagy inhibitors for cancer and a consultant for cancer-related programs at Sprint Biosciences, Deciphera, and Immunaccel. Dr Abella has received grant funding and honoraria from Becton Dickinson. No other disclosures were reported.”
       1. BobW October 2, 2020 at 11:52 am

          No stakeholders in zinc? Comes from being as common as dirt.
       2. Lambert Strether Post authorOctober 2, 2020 at 3:07 pm

          > Conflict of Interest Disclosures:

          Thank you, that is a very good catch. I should say the study made it past my mental tripwires because it was published in Indian Express, and India, as we know, is a large user of hydroxychloroquine. I did think the small n was a little bit suss considering India’s huge population…

          So (off-patent, cheap, safe if used as directed) hydroxychloroquine lives to fight another day!
    2. ddt October 2, 2020 at 11:25 am

       Also this “and all participants who did contract SARS-CoV-2 were either asymptomatic or had mild disease courses with full recoveries. As such, we cannot recommend the routine use of hydroxychloroquine among HCWs to prevent COVID-19.”

       So those who contracted had at the worst mild symptoms and fully recovered. HXC isn’t recommended to prevent but how about to reduce to mild symptoms??? Has my reading comprehension gone down the tubes?
       1. Milton October 2, 2020 at 12:09 pm

          I noted the same passage and truly needed to re-read, at least 3 times, to assure myself that I didn’t create a mental typo.
          1. SKM October 2, 2020 at 2:49 pm

             ditto. this seemed very similar to a study some months ago on HC (no zinc of course), also stopped early!!!??? So we couldn`t see that perhaps no-one on HC (even alone) got severe disease?!
             Not sure what the thing about being infectious is about – even the vaccines are not being touted as providing sterilising immunity and the best apparently hoped for is that a high percentage will not get severe disease. There is no promise that a vaccine will prevent transmission although the hope surely is that it will reduce transmission rates to some, as yet unknown extent.
             This just looks like another dishonest attempt to trash HC but without a properly set up RCT looking at disease severity reduction which is of course the main thing we are all interested in
             A promising study came out recently using HC +Zinc which did show this – not sure if it was flagged up here and I haven`t got the link to hand but could find it if anyone is interested.
21. Basil Pesto October 2, 2020 at 8:45 am

    outcomes range from the entire political class being infected to Trump emerging from a mild case, victorious and indestructible, after having dominated the news cycle for two weeks without saying anything (unless he tweets his way through, like AOC).

    Which has given me pause, tbh.

    First, it’s classic Trump strategy to divert from one lucrative-for-the-news-cycle shitshow (the debate) to another.

    Second, this keeps him out of harm’s way and lets him control the narrative from home, and keeps him out of a second debate. The debates seem like a bit of a no-win proposition for him, given how objectively shit everything is at the moment.

    Third, while the libs are in “ha ha I hope he dies” mode (and before the high-horsery, I doubt there’d exactly be solemnity and well-wishing going around here if, say, Obama contracted Covid), it might mellow the undecideds with sympathy (or just ambivalence). Meanwhile, if he does survive, that’s red meat for his base who love his strongman shtick, and will leave aforementioned libs deflated after their latest “we’ve got him this time” ‘strategy’ (being killed by the virus, in this case) falls flat.

    I mean, I’m not saying Trump is lying about the diagnosis… but it’d be pretty funny if he was.

    Presumably there’ll be as much clamor to see the test results as there was to see his tax returns. Of course, there could be plausible deniability down the track in the form of claiming a false positive.

    Or maybe he actually will just cark it.

    In any case, 2020’s showrunners have (finally, belatedly) delivered.
    1. Lambert Strether Post authorOctober 2, 2020 at 3:12 pm

       > I’m not saying Trump is lying about the diagnosis

       I could be persuaded otherwise with detail about Trumps quarantine, but I think too many people would have to be in on it for a fake diagnosis to work. Though I’d certainly like to see HIPAA waived on it.
    2. lordkoos October 2, 2020 at 3:45 pm

       I’d wager that nothing will stop Trump’s tweets other than a loss of consciousness (although some have posited that it’s not always Trump that writes them… Stephen Miller has been mentioned).
22. Wukchumni October 2, 2020 at 9:01 am

    Trump has long called Covid the China Virus or words to that effect, and as recently as 10 days ago, blamed them for all that ails us @ the UN.

    Does he use contracting the virus as a context for going to war with China?

    In a speech Tuesday to the U.N. General Assembly, President Trump once again sought to blame China for the COVID-19 pandemic and called on Beijing to be punished for its handling of the disease, which has killed nearly 1 million people worldwide – a fifth of them in the United States.

    Trump, speaking in a video address from the White House to a sparsely occupied hall of mask-wearing delegates at U.N. headquarters in New York, referred to the disease as the “China virus” and implied that Beijing and the World Health Organization had worked in tandem to cover up the danger of the pandemic.
23. PlutoniumKun October 2, 2020 at 9:11 am

    The era of greyhound racing in the U.S. is coming to an end National Geographic

    I’ve mixed feelings about this. I’ve had quite a few fun nights at greyhound races and even as a kid bet with other kids while watching it on TV. But there seems little doubt that there is a lot of cruelty going on behind the scenes, although much of this is similar to any branch of overbred dogs. A guy I used to know who was a breeder was quite casual about the number of pups and young dogs that were ‘disposed of’ for not being fast enough.

    The sport is in decline in Ireland and the UK too, leaving lots of homeless greyhounds. Apparently, they are lovely pets although they don’t live very long.
    1. John A October 2, 2020 at 10:36 am

       Another problem with rehoused retired racing greyhounds, is that if not on a leash, they instinctively chase squirrels and similar wildlife in parks and unlike most other dogs, catch and kill them before they can run up trees. Bit of a grim sight in parks where kids also play,
    2. lyman alpha blob October 2, 2020 at 12:53 pm

       Don’t worry PK – my mother-in-law is seems hell bent on adopting all of the greyhounds that don’t make the cut at the track. Visiting can be a real chore – literally, as you’ll be asked to walk the decrepit dogs.
       1. newcatty October 2, 2020 at 5:24 pm

          This is good news. Greyhound racing, no matter how “fun” and entertaining for people who perceive it that way is inhumane , cruel and abject exploitation of animals. It could be put in the same category as cock fights, dog fights or horse racing ( ducking my grey head). When rationally looking at the treatment and manipulation of these animals, one can conclude it is certainly not kind, compassionate or caring treatment of the animals. The thrill of betting is just not justified at the expense of living beings harmed for entertainment or a “lifestyle” or business model. IIRCC, horses are dropping dead or breaking legs on CA tracks. If looked into then maybe in other places in the country and world. Respecting life of animals will be important to foster respect for life on the planet. How many of us love our cats and dogs? Why are they more valuable or worthy of protection then the racing dogs?

          I was at a pet smart where “retired” greyhounds were up for adoption. The woman in charge was laughing with her group holding the dogs on leashes. I stopped by and said, imo the greyhound race business should be ended. A woman holding a dog gave me a startled look, but smiled too. The woman in charge actually cackled loudly and shouted (screamed). OMG! We got an anti-racing one here! I will have you know, the dogs love it! I had no ready reply and walked away into store. Our car was parked right beside the group. As we exited the store she had her eyes on me, even as I walked in a circle around them. She screamed again, Oh, there the anti-racing racing one is again! Hmmm, it still reminds me of being called, in contempt, an anti-racist. Just considered the source, but still a sad and bad experience.
24. Yik Wong October 2, 2020 at 9:19 am

    Der Spegil hit piece starts off early with a bold lie: “Alexei Navalny, 44, is Russia’s most prominent opposition politician.” By voter appeal he’s not even within the top 5 opposition politicians/parties. See Max Blumenthal’s Greyzone coverage.

    This paid ad by the NED reminds me of Hitler’s quote on how to do propaganda (which is often misquoted). ‘If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.’
    1. GramSci October 2, 2020 at 9:31 am

       Promptly followed by the claim that novichuk “can essentially only be manufactured in Russia”.

       Is the German public this gullible?
       1. The Rev Kev October 2, 2020 at 9:48 am

          The public, probably no. The German press? Absolutely. They are as bad as the media in the US. That is why the Germans call their own MSM the Lügenpresse which can translate to the ‘Lying Press’.
          1. km October 2, 2020 at 10:35 am

             Didn’t some prominent German journalist write an expose a few years ago to the effect that “we all work for the CIA”?

             Yup.

             http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/editor-of-major-german-newspaper-says-he-planted-stories-for-cia/article/424470
       2. Yik Wong October 2, 2020 at 10:52 am

          Per Rev Kev, No. They are not that gullible. This was in the English version. The audience for this NED advertisement are those Washington belt-line “intellectuals” who’d read this article, note it appears in a “German” magazine, and assume there is international support for increased USA spending on MIC. Separately, it may embolden or pressure US State Dept officials to increase pressure on Germany to buy from MIC to make up for a certain gas pipeline.
          1. km October 2, 2020 at 11:36 am

             More likely, it gives US State Dept officials an excuse to do what they were already going to do anyway. “See, the Germans really want us to do this!”

             Sort of like how the alphabet agencies leaks the Steele Dossier to the press, then used the ensuing news report as support for the veracity of the dossier in obtaining FISA court warrants. “See, this can be trusted, the press reports it! (because we put it there…)“
       3. Lambert Strether Post authorOctober 2, 2020 at 3:15 pm

          > can essentially only be manufactured in Russia

          This amazing and powerful drug, administered by trained assassins, has an odd habit of never killing anybody.

          Anyhow, Navalny must have escaped Russia with Putin looking the other way, and now he’s giving interviews. Awkward.

          Even more awkward when you remember that the Skripals were never interviewed by anybody…
          1. ambrit October 2, 2020 at 6:13 pm

             Don’t forget that Litvinenko was poisoned with Polonium 210 way back in 2006.
             The ‘shadowy backers’ of said demise were never positively established.
             1. Wukchumni October 2, 2020 at 6:19 pm

                My favorite of all the Soviet bloc party poisonings was Georgi Markov in London with ricin from an umbrella point, in 1978.
       4. futility October 3, 2020 at 7:32 am

          Yes, I choked on that, too . The Spiegel also often asserts without qualifications that Russia meddled in the 2016 US elections as if this were established fact. if one points out in the comments section that the behavior of Hillary, Obama, the Democratic party, etc. is entirely sufficient to explain the election outcome one is pretty quickly designated a russian troll. So, yes a seizable part of the German populace (and media) is this gullible.

          One observation regarding “Lügenpresse” (lying press). This particular invective is hurled at the press mostly by the AFD crowd, especially when the press points out inconvenient (to the AFD) facts, very similar to Trump.

          That novichok “can essentially only be manufactured in Russia” is, of course, nonsense. There are enough chemists around without moral inhibitions that the Mexican drug cartels can switch from one precursor to manufacturing it itself in case the supply is choked off by law enforcement.

          That Novichok seems to be a rather ineffective poison is often taken as an argument that the Russian government is not behind it as they cannot be that incompetent. Additionally, the timing seems to benefit the US more (North stream pipeline). However, this presupposes that killing was the objective. If, however, spreading of terror was the aim, Novichok seems to be a rather good choice.
          Individuals thinking about joining the opposition might now think twice if such an unpleasant fate could await them. However, the timing still seems rather poor.
    2. Yik Wong October 2, 2020 at 11:07 am

       Ai! Why don’t the Green Party or the People Party get Jill Stein or Howie Hawkins infected with Lyme disease and claim it was done by Biden Campaign? Never mind, the “paid” press would suppress the story.
25. John Beech October 2, 2020 at 9:26 am

    The President of the United States is ill with COVID-19 and I wish him a swift recovery.
    1. Lee October 2, 2020 at 9:48 am

       And may the meatpackers, farmworkers, cleaners and others quit dropping like flies.
       1. furies October 2, 2020 at 10:00 am

          Inshallah~
       2. marym October 2, 2020 at 10:07 am

          +1000
       3. Lambert Strether Post authorOctober 2, 2020 at 3:16 pm

          > And may the meatpackers, farmworkers, cleaners and others quit dropping like flies.

          Don’t worry, the HEROES Act will take care of them. Oh, wait….
    2. Wukchumni October 2, 2020 at 10:09 am

       I’m behind the President 1,000 percent.
       1. Big River Bandido October 2, 2020 at 10:52 am

          Very subtle snark. Kudos!
          1. ambrit October 2, 2020 at 12:44 pm

             You’ve got eagle-ton eyes there BRB!
             1. Lambert Strether Post authorOctober 2, 2020 at 3:16 pm

                I’m shocked, shocked….
                1. Wukchumni October 2, 2020 at 3:43 pm

                   {golf clap}
                   1. ambrit October 2, 2020 at 10:57 pm

                      We’re all ‘boojums’ now.

                      “Your winnings sir.”
                      “Oh, thank you very much.”
                      *Nasty look*
                      *Gallic shrug*
    3. farmboy October 2, 2020 at 10:09 am

       “We tell ourselves that pestilence is a mere bogy of the mind, a bad dream that will pass away. But it doesn’t always pass away and, from one bad dream to another, it is men who pass away…because they have taken no precautions.”
       – Camus
       Woodrow Wilson denied the existence of the 1918 flu pandemic, got the flu, and spent days in recovery.
       the past is prologue
26. Dean October 2, 2020 at 9:31 am

    re: SARS-CoV-2-derived peptides define heterologous and COVID-19-induced T cell recognition Nature.

    “This is really above my paygrade, and Covid Twitter seems to regard this as controversial, so hopefully readers will weigh in.”

    I hope this isn’t too weighty,

    “Here we identify and characterize multiple dominant and subdominant SARS-CoV-2 HLA class I and HLA-DR peptides as potential T cell epitopes in COVID-19 convalescent and unexposed individuals. SARS-CoV-2-specific peptides enabled detection of post-infectious T cell immunity, even in seronegative convalescent individuals.”
    What does this mean?
    T cells are critical for the immune system to function. In the broadest sense there are two major T cell classes: T helper cells identified by the CD4 functional cell surface component (CD originally was defined as Cluster of Differentiation but now is more broadly call Cluster Designation) and Killer T cells (aka cytolytic T lymphocytes or CTLs) identified by the CD8 marker. T cell mature in the thymus where they decide to become CD4 or CD8 cells and also determine their specificity through gene rearrangements of the T-cell receptor (TCR). Like antibodies the TCR is extremely specific for its target epitope. Unlike antibodies which recognize native three-dimensional epitopes the TCR epitope is a linear peptide.
    T cells are naive when they leave the thymus and can only be activated when the TCR recognizes its epitope when presented by an antigen presenting cell (APC). Only B cells, monocytes/macrophages, or dendritic cells can be antigen presenting cells. APC’s can process antigens bye either MHC (major histocompatibility complex) class I or MHC II (HLA-dr in the article is class II).
    APC’s can take up the virus forming endocytic vesicles that migrate to and fuse with lysosomes. Lysosomal proteases degrade the viral protein to various lengths of peptides. Newly synthesized MHC II is brought to the lysosome and the peptides can fit into the binding groove of MHC. What fits in the groove can be somewhat limited perhaps up to 5 different peptides might fit (fortunate there are three different MHC II inherited from each parent, so there could be 6 different binding grooves). The peptide loaded MHC II are brought to and presented on the cells surface. Various CD4 cells will come in close contact and check to see if the TCR recognizes the peptide. If the TCR recognizes the peptide (and the CD4 simultaneously recognized MHC II) that cell will be activated, will proliferate, and send out cytokines that will drive all other immune cells. Just my estimate but if there are 6 different MHC II (each potentially presenting 5 different peptides) there could be 30 different CD4 cells activated against the virus.
    If the virus escapes an endocytic vesicle and enters the cytoplasm of an APC (dendritic cells are especially important for this pathway) it can be processed by MHC I pathway. First the viral proteins are degraded by proteases in a compartment known as the proteasome. Peptide fragments are released into the cytoplasm but are then transported by a complex into a vesicle that contains newly synthesized MHC I (3 different MHC I and both parental alleles are expressed). Unlike MHC II the peptide groove is limited to peptides that are almost always 9 amino acids in length but several different 9mers could fit into each MHC. The complex migrates to the cell surface and peptides presented. When a CD8 cell TCR recognizes the peptide and CD8 recognizes the MHC I that killer cell is activated. It will proliferate with the cytokines produced by activated CD4 cells and circulate throughout the body seeking infected cells. Infected cells will process viral proteins by the same MHC I pathway to present the peptides on their surface. An activated CD8 cell that recognizes the peptide will induce death of that cells.
    1. Lee October 2, 2020 at 9:43 am

       For us simple folk: is there a salutary practical application hiding in there somewhere?
       1. dougie October 2, 2020 at 9:55 am

          Send your peptides into the witness protection program?

          Way above my pay grade, but I love that it was posted!
       2. Dean October 2, 2020 at 10:55 am

          Yes. The most effective vaccines would be those that induce the broadest cellular responses.

          Somehow I thought my original post was not accepted so I reposted and it shows up below. I address the vaccine implications replying to that post.
          1. Lambert Strether Post authorOctober 2, 2020 at 3:17 pm

             > The most effective vaccines would be those that induce the broadest cellular responses.

             Brilliant. Thank you.
       3. Ignacio October 2, 2020 at 11:06 am

          FWIK, the cellular response (those specific T-Cells that will recognize parts of the invading virus) triggered by CoVs like MERS or SARS and quite possibly SARS CoV2 infection, will remain and help to protect you –to some unknown degree– for at least two years while the humoral response (the antibodies) might wane faster.

          Also, because all CoVs, and more particularly betacoronavirus, share in common some of these “T-cell epitopes” (Dean signalled the distintion between humoral and cellular epitopes) it is possible to expect some cross-protection from previous common cold CoVs infections (as it has also been seen with antibodies to other CoVs). This could possibly explain, at least in part, why SARS CoV 2 has such a variable assortment of outcomes and why in most cases the infection is mild. In the study, about 81% of subjects (N = 104, yet this study requires validation and results aren’t definitive, so caution!) showed to have T-cells able to recognize some SARS CoV 2 epitopes and this might suggest some protection. Yet, as for the paper, it is still unclear what degree of protection or immunity the cellular response provides and why some patients develop severe Covid-19 while showing strong T-Cell response.It not known also if among the severe cases there were subjects that had such cross-protective T-cells prior to infection (something you cannot know unless you made this costly analysis before they were infected).

          As per how science evolves and goes this paper is an interesting piece that shows very clearly how science works. The authors here are analysing cellular responses and the paper ‘sells’ or highlights the importance of the cellular response while others might ‘sell’ the crucial importance of antibodies. In reality this paper doesn’t really stablish the role of the cellular response in immunity against SARS CoV 2. The valid assertion is that in ‘most if not all mild cases a strong T-cell response is seen’ but then you find that in ‘most if not all severe cases there is strong T-Cell response’, what to conclude?

          A recent (and excellent) paper linked here a couple of days ago was more balanced and complete and their conclusion was that the outcome very much depends on a balanced and complete humoral/cellular response including the CD8+ and CD4+ T-Cell lineages that Dean has so kindly defined for us.
          1. Lambert Strether Post authorOctober 2, 2020 at 3:19 pm

             > A recent (and excellent) paper linked here a couple of days ago was more balanced and complete and their conclusion was that the outcome very much depends on a balanced and complete humoral/cellular response including the CD8+ and CD4+ T-Cell lineages that Dean has so kindly defined for us.

             Ah, good. Thanks!

             I wish there were a book called The Immune System for Dummies. As the vaccines approach, it would be helpful to have it. (We might also remember that conventional wisdom was wrong on aerosols. It might be wrong on some aspects of the immune system too.)
             1. Dean October 2, 2020 at 3:40 pm

                Immunology for Dummies – Amazon.comwww.amazon.com › Immunology-Dummies › k=Immu…
                Results 1 – 16 of 148 – Basic Immunology: Functions and Disorders of the Immune System. by Abul K. Abbas MBBS, Andrew H. Lichtman MD PhD, et al. | Nov 16 …

                I have not looked at this but Abul Abbas is well known.
                1. ambrit October 2, 2020 at 11:15 pm

                   Thank you. I found a copy very cheap online and have ordered it. Now to “gird my loins” and try to read it and comprehend it concurrently. (The “walk and chew gum at the same time” conundrum.)
                   I am beginning to save comments from the apparently knowledgeable persons who grace this site.
                   We really are beginning to worry about the “second wave” of the Dreaded Pathogen in light of the unconcern of a large segment of the general population that we are observing around us.
                   The Presidency for the next four years is beginning to take on the appearance of a “Poisoned Chalice.”
27. cocomaan October 2, 2020 at 9:51 am

    I don’t wish Covid on anyone, a guy who used to work for me had a horrible case of it and still can’t bend his arms for some reason.

    But I did see a funny joke: Trump is probably more at risk because he is low income.
    1. Lambert Strether Post authorOctober 2, 2020 at 3:21 pm

       > Trump is probably more at risk because he is low income

       Ha.
    2. witters October 3, 2020 at 2:10 am

       May I ask how he eats?
28. rowlf October 2, 2020 at 9:52 am

    With the latest news about the president I can’t shake the feeling that I’ve seen drama like this be developed before large pro wrestling matches in the past.
    1. Bruno October 2, 2020 at 1:51 pm

       this is the way that Trump ends, Trump ends, Trump ends
       not with a bang but a whopper
29. a different chris October 2, 2020 at 9:53 am

    “The Surgisphere Scandal”

    Even if a meritocracy was a good thing we don’t seem to be able to actually, you know, execute it:

    The Scientist learned of serious concerns about Desai’s integrity and his conduct as a physician spanning that time.

    After he left Duke in 2012, Desai trained or worked at the University of Texas Health Science Center, Southern Illinois University (SIU), and Northwest Community Hospital (NCH) in suburban Chicago. At the latter two institutions, he held senior positions: director of a new surgical skills lab and vice chair of research for surgery at SIU, and director of performance improvement at NCH, which he joined in 2016.

    The story goes on about how “junior” people feared him. He apparently sucked technically as well as personally but there he was. So what was this supposedly meritocratic process that put him in charge?
    1. Yik Wong October 2, 2020 at 12:31 pm

       Like Joe Biden, a inflated fake resume, helped by a large dose of bribery, quid pro quo, and promises of company shares pre-listing. The first two are feed like breast milk to the elites of his parents home country, and I suspect is now on the US elites baby menu instead of more subtle forms of corruption. The later is long established US corrupt practice. See separate link in NC about corruption in USA, particularly the comment section.

       The more interesting question is why did this man, knowing it is all fake, risk all to beard the president? I suspect it was an underling, probably with severe TDS, possibly working their own career path/con, who put this in motion. Anyone have a better premise to offer up?
30. lyman alpha blob October 2, 2020 at 9:54 am

    RE: Biden transition elevates former Facebook exec as ethics arbiter

    “The ultimate arbiter for ethics for the Biden transition was a senior regulatory official for Facebook up until a few months ago, at a time when progressives and the Biden campaign are fighting against the right-wing agenda of Facebook,” said Jeff Hauser, the director of the liberal Revolving Door Project, which focuses on executive branch personnel and transitions. “Please make it clear that I think the Trump administration is insanely corrupt and I’m not equating the two, but this is deeply disappointing.”

    Not equating the two – well there’s your problem right there, ‘liberal’. Maybe you should, instead of thinking Republican party #2 is going to deliver for you.
31. dean October 2, 2020 at 9:57 am

    “This is really above my paygrade, and Covid Twitter seems to regard this as controversial, so hopefully readers will weigh in”

    Lambert, not sure if this will help.

    T cells are critical for the immune system to function. In the broadest sense there are two major T cell classes: T helper cells identified by the CD4 functional cell surface component (CD originally was defined as Cluster of Differentiation but now is more broadly call Cluster Designation) and Killer T cells (aka cytolytic T lymphocytes or CTLs) identified by the CD8 marker. T cell mature in the thymus where they decide to become CD4 or CD8 cells and also determine their specificity through gene rearrangements of the T-cell receptor (TCR). Like antibodies the TCR is extremely specific for its target epitope. Unlike antibodies which recognize native three-dimensional epitopes the TCR epitope is a linear peptide.
    T cells are naive when they leave the thymus and can only be activated when the TCR recognizes its epitope when presented by an antigen presenting cell (APC). Only B cells, monocytes/macrophages, or dendritic cells can be antigen presenting cells. APC’s can process antigens bye either MHC (major histocompatibility complex) class I or MHC II (HLA-dr in the article is class II).
    APC’s can take up the virus forming endocytic vesicles that migrate to and fuse with lysosomes. Lysosomal proteases degrade the viral protein to various lengths of peptides. Newly synthesized MHC II is brought to the lysosome and the peptides can fit into the binding groove of MHC. What fits in the groove can be somewhat limited perhaps up to 5 different peptides might fit (fortunate there are three different MHC II inherited from each parent, so there could be 6 different binding grooves). The peptide loaded MHC II are brought to and presented on the cells surface. Various CD4 cells will come in close contact and check to see if the TCR recognizes the peptide. If the TCR recognizes the peptide (and the CD4 simultaneously recognized MHC II) that cell will be activated, will proliferate, and send out cytokines that will drive all other immune cells. Just my estimate but if there are 6 different MHC II (each potentially presenting 5 different peptides) there could be 30 different CD4 cells activated against the virus.
    If the virus escapes an endocytic vesicle and enters the cytoplasm of an APC (dendritic cells are especially important for this pathway) it can be processed by MHC I pathway. First the viral proteins are degraded by proteases in a compartment known as the proteasome. Peptide fragments are released into the cytoplasm but are then transported by a complex into a vesicle that contains newly synthesized MHC I (3 different MHC I and both parental alleles are expressed). Unlike MHC II the peptide groove is limited to peptides that are almost always 9 amino acids in length but several different 9mers could fit into each MHC. The complex migrates to the cell surface and peptides presented. When a CD8 cell TCR recognizes the peptide and CD8 recognizes the MHC I that killer cell is activated. It will proliferate with the cytokines produced by activated CD4 cells and circulate throughout the body seeking infected cells. Infected cells will process viral proteins by the same MHC I pathway to present the peptides on their surface. An activated CD8 cell that recognizes the peptide will induce death of that cells.
    1. Dean October 2, 2020 at 10:05 am

       The cellular response is one reason I advocate for an attenuated whole cell vaccine. The vaccine frontrunners (Moderna and AstraZeneca) will limit both CD4 and CD8 responses to the few peptide epitopes of the spike protein. Whole cell vaccines will broaden the cellular responses to include peptides from all viral peptides. Attenuated viral vaccines may be the best as the potential entry of the virus into the cytoplasm increases the MHC I pathway and thus improves CD8 responses
32. The Rev Kev October 2, 2020 at 9:59 am

    “US-linked security sources discussed kidnapping or poisoning Julian Assange, London court told”

    There was a story at the time that Hillary Clinton as SecState wanted to drone Assange. However the Ecuadorians made a fuss about that as they did not want to lose their London Embassy.
    1. Kurt Sperry October 2, 2020 at 11:48 am

       It’s just around the corner from the Knightsbridge Herrods, that would be unacceptable collateral damage!
       1. Tvc15 October 2, 2020 at 2:07 pm

          Maybe droning Seth Rich would have been a better way of cleaning up the DNC leaks too…a twofer.
          1. ambrit October 2, 2020 at 11:20 pm

             Droning Seth Rich would have left too many clues and pieces of evidence. (Haven’t you read the Jack Ryan Guides series of how to books?)
33. Dr. John Carpenter October 2, 2020 at 10:13 am

    If it’s wrong for me to hope for the entire political class being infected, I don’t want to be right.

    (Though given the way things have been, I fully expect Trump to recover with nary a scratch and doubling down on brushing aside treating COVID-19 as the threat it is. The Dems will wag their fingers, but do nothing except lose, as always.)
34. PlutoniumKun October 2, 2020 at 10:27 am

    Irish court rules Subway loaves are too sugary to be called bread CNN

    The quantity of sugar in that ‘bread’ is shocking. Essentially, what is considered ‘bread’ now was considered ‘confectionary’ in the 1970’s, when the Irish VAT regulations were drawn up.

    It would be kind of fun if some people started reporting Subways around the world under various trade descriptions acts. Subway head office must be furious at their franchisee for being so stupid and greedy so as to take that case.
    1. Clem October 2, 2020 at 10:44 am

       At least they got rid of the yoga mat plastic foamer in the bread.

       “Subway says a chemical also found in yoga mats will be completely phased out of its bread as of next week.”

       https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/04/11/subway-yoga-mat-chemical-almost-out-of-bread/7587787/

       Got bladder cancer? You probably ate at Subway often.
       1. Carolinian October 2, 2020 at 11:02 am

          Jeez. I love Subway meatball subs although i hardly ever eat there. Being Americans we probably don’t notice all the sugar (or corn syrup?) because it is in everything.

          Next you’ll be telling me the TV Colonel Sanders was a fake (he was).
          1. Clem October 2, 2020 at 11:36 am

             You have been misinformed.
             https://www.biography.com/business-figure/colonel-harland-sanders
             1. Carolinian October 2, 2020 at 11:42 am

                No there was a real Colonel Sanders but the one in the Tv ads was an actor. Or so I was told by someone from Louisville whose family knew the real guy.
       2. fresno dan October 2, 2020 at 11:28 am

          Clem
          October 2, 2020 at 10:44 am

          Gee, I always thought that eating an exercise mat was as good as exercising….
          1. Eureka Springs October 2, 2020 at 12:22 pm

             Tastes like chicken nuggets.
             1. ambrit October 2, 2020 at 11:22 pm

                Nuggets made out of the chicken or nuggets that come from out of the chicken?
       3. jr October 2, 2020 at 1:28 pm

          I knew it. I have eaten their garbage on occasion and always noticed a weird, “chemical” aftertaste in the bread. That foam must be it.
          1. newcatty October 2, 2020 at 6:03 pm

             Let them eat sweet confection and plastic foam. Well, the graduate was given the most important advise for his next step into the upper class world, whispered in his ear: Plastics! Here we are. A plastic planet washed in plastic. Not, just talking about certain politicians, talking heads,celebrities and elites visages, either.
35. Samuel Conner October 2, 2020 at 10:29 am

    There was a recent interview with DJT after a well-attended rally, inquiring whether he was concerned about exposure to the virus. His reply was that he felt very safe, since his speaking platform was far from the crowds. I didn’t get much sense that he was concerned about possible transmission within the crowd itself.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/donald-trump-rally-nevada-coronavirus-super-spreader-event-2020-election-b440392.html

    Perhaps, as RMN wrote, the rally participants were just props.

    —

    As Ella has suggested (this might be a more powerful meme than it first appears; cynical as I am, it appears that I may not be as cynical as the situation warrants), this might be a brilliant bit of play-acting. If so, IMO it would be no more than fine dust in the scale of the Presidential mendacity of recent decades.

    If it’s real, I hope that it results in more serious (and competent) Federal engagement with the pandemic. As Ian Welsh recently wrote, we can’t expect the elites to take the nation’s problems seriously until they experience the impacts of them.

    https://www.ianwelsh.net/the-principle-of-elite-consequences/

    —

    Early comments on Ian Welsh’s latest item, a brief remark about DJT’s alleged test results, are decidedly in the “this is a fake news October Surprise” column.
    1. pjay October 2, 2020 at 11:33 am

       “…cynical as I am, it appears that I may not be as cynical as the situation warrants”

       I’ve been saying this to myself, periodically, since about 1975. Each time the level of cynicism ratchets up. But I find it is never high enough.
    2. cnchal October 2, 2020 at 11:52 am

       No perhaps about it. To a narcissist, people are no different than lamp shades or brooms, objects to be used and abused then discarded when no longer needed.

       The political system self selects for narcissists. The better they are it the higher they go.

       One way out is sortition where randomly selected peasants are tasked with overseeing the professional politicians, but it will be a tough row to hoe, getting narcissists to give up their supply of adulation and adoration. It’s going to require force.
36. fresno dan October 2, 2020 at 10:41 am

    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/09/how-a-hacker-turned-a-250-coffee-maker-into-ransom-machine/

    Me: I’d like my mocha, venti, with breve, vanilla, caramel, and 4 Splenda, [and] stirred, not shaken.
    Coffee Maker: Sorry Dave, I can’t do that. AND if you want any coffee, that will be ONE MILLION DOLLARS
    Me: That sounds about right…
    1. hunkerdown October 2, 2020 at 10:59 am

       I notice a more concentrated attempt lately by the Spectacle to stage events and illustrate threats that lead uniformly in the direction of locking down consumer electronics against users and in favor of those always pure-hearted manufacturers. See also this recent, risible example of motivated reasoning proposing regulation of 3D printing by copyright offices to address the threat of… the manufacturer firmware and hidden watermarking?! Absolute horse cookies.
37. Clem October 2, 2020 at 10:41 am

    Barrett was a law professor when she endorsed a newspaper ad.
38. Wukchumni October 2, 2020 at 10:42 am

    It happened 20, 20, 20, 4, hours ago
    I wanna be intubated
    Nothing to do, nowhere to go, oh
    I wanna be intubated

    Just, get me to a computer, put me out of pain
    Hurry, hurry, hurry, before the press goes insane
    I can’t control my fingers, I can’t control my brain
    Oh no oh-oh oh-oh

    It happened 20, 20, 20, 4, hours ago
    I wanna be intubated
    Nothing to do, nowhere to go, oh
    I wanna be intubated

    Just put me on a QWERTY, let me name names
    Hurry, hurry, hurry, before I go insane
    I can’t control my fingers, I can’t control my brain
    Oh no oh-oh oh-oh

    It happened 20, 20, 20, 4, hours ago
    I wanna be intubated
    Nothing to do, nowhere to go, oh
    I wanna be intubated

    Just put me on a QWERTY and get me to the show
    Hurry, hurry, hurry, before I go loco
    I can’t control my fingers, I can’t control my toes
    Oh no oh-oh oh-oh

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0usV_kf-Zc
39. The Rev Kev October 2, 2020 at 10:47 am

    “The Navy’s Plan for 530 Ships is All Washed Up”

    Since the US Navy does not have enough sailors to man the ships that they have at the moment, then presumably, most of the new ships will be drone ships. This could present a unique opportunity for the Chinese Navy. They could disable those drone ships either by hacking them or disabling them with an EM pulse. Then “volunteers” could climb aboard those disabled, unmanned ships and claim compensation from the US for a percentage of that ship’s worth under international salvage laws.
    1. Synoia October 2, 2020 at 11:16 am

       Or the Chinese could strip out the automation, man the ships, and save money while building a bigger Chinese Nayvy.

       I am assuming that the hulls are sound, even when build by the Contractor who submitted the lowest price (before changes and overruns.)
       1. Yik Wong October 2, 2020 at 11:32 am

          “I am assuming that the hulls are sound, even when build by the Contractor who… submitted the lowest price”

          ….subcontracted to Chinese shipyard in order to …
40. Mikel October 2, 2020 at 10:52 am

    Pence tested negative. No word about Pelosi’s test. Are Biden and Harris being tested?

    VP debate may be most watched VP debate ever.
    1. Synoia October 2, 2020 at 11:17 am

       Can we say Pence has been effectively negative throughout his political career
       1. Mikel October 2, 2020 at 11:39 am

          If Trump is a nightmare, having Pence would be like a nightmare one cannot wake up from.
          1. Michael McK October 2, 2020 at 1:16 pm

             My bad take is Trump drops out due to illness and all the never-Trumpers fall right behind Pence, leaving Biden high and dry without the left he spent so much time demotivating to carry him over the line..
             1. drumlin woodchuckles October 3, 2020 at 4:53 am

                Pence has been a Senator and a Governor. Pence is part of the Big Club. The Republicans ( and many Democrats) will be perfectly satisfied with a President Pence.
                Pelosi, for example, would much prefer a President Pence over a President Sanders. So would Clinton. So would Obama. So would all of them.
41. Mikel October 2, 2020 at 11:03 am

    I don’t think anybody should be hoping the President doesn’t make it. Despite his age and other factors, he is someone with access to the best doctors and medicines and around the clock treatment – if HE can’t make it, that is another type of psychological blow.
    1. WobblyTelomeres October 2, 2020 at 12:50 pm

       I agree. Still, a medically induced coma, for his own good, might ratchet down the nonstop drama for a week or two. Not so vile a wish.
       1. crittermom October 2, 2020 at 2:04 pm

          “… a medically induced coma, for his our own good…”

          There. Fixed it for ya.
       2. Count Zero October 2, 2020 at 4:33 pm

          How long were you envisaging this medically-induced coma as lasting? Do I have any advance on, say, a year?
          1. drumlin woodchuckles October 3, 2020 at 4:54 am

             For the rest of his life. As with General Francisco Franco.

             We can say : he took one for the herd.
    2. lordkoos October 2, 2020 at 3:54 pm

       If he gets a serious case or dies, it would certainly send the message that the virus is to be taken seriously. Hard to see any downside to that.
42. The Rev Kev October 2, 2020 at 11:07 am

    “The Surgisphere Scandal: What Went Wrong?”

    Nothing went wrong. It all proceeded as planned. They got some crook to put together a dodgy paper that could never pass muster. Then The Lancet cooperated by publishing it and were being stubborn about taking the article down in spite of the blatant lies that starting poking through this study. Then within days the World Health Organization, the UK Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, and a host of governments and organizations thumped down hard and forbid any more study of HCQ. Other countries like Oz made it illegal for a doctor to even prescribe this drug to people.

    It may be my cynicism but I am not buying this article. It wrings its hands and say how can this happen? What lessons are to be learned? How can we make sure this never happens again? Nope. Not buying it. By the timing it was a coordinated international campaign to push aside a probable cheap medication for the virus to clear the path for expensive drugs like Remdesivir and for newly developed vaccines that would have all sorts of fees and the like attached to them. So I am looking at those who would benefit from such a d*** move – Big Pharma.
    1. pjay October 2, 2020 at 11:51 am

       I posted a comment above about the JAMA study on HCQ in today’s Links. As a “randomized clinical study” in one of the world’s top medical journals, I’m sure it will be held up as a “gold standard” debunking of HQC by those with either a material or ideological interest in doing so. But as I read it, it sure sounds like another rigged effort by researchers with clear conflicts of interest.

       I, too, have to admit cynicism has become my default mode these days. Maybe I should just “trust the science!”
43. Keith October 2, 2020 at 11:27 am

    Regarding Trump-Covid, what does this say about the POTUS debates? One and done? Like mentioned above, Trump dominates the news cycle without annoying people about an overly aggressive debate performance, leaving us with the undercard VPOTUS debate.
44. Clem October 2, 2020 at 11:33 am

    ‘Never let a crisis go to waste…Disneyland’s push to reopen’

    Just like W’s nonsensical color coded “terrorist attack” status bar, Newsom has imposed his own county color coding criteria. Now that more counties are set to move out of the most restrictive tier, Newsom’s changed the game yet again and has decreed an “equity requirement” counties must also meet before they can move down a tier. At least until after the election when Trump is defeated and the virus will become “something we can all live with.”

    Oct. 1, 2020
    “California’s larger counties will not be permitted to reopen their economies further unless they reduce coronavirus infections in the hardest-hit places where the poor, Black people, Latinos and Pacific Islanders live.”
    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-10-01/coronavirus-reopening-health-equity-metric

    Prediction: Mass rebellion and ignoring of everything coming out of Sacramento except in the obedient coastal communities. Three of my friends are driving on expired licenses. Police are instructed to ignore that. The DMV is useless, their computers, along with unemployment are not functioning for most people.
45. allan October 2, 2020 at 11:42 am

    GOP donors ‘freaking out’ after coming close to Trump at fundraiser hours before his positive Covid-19 test [CNBC]

    Republican donors who attended President Donald Trump’s fundraiser at his Bedminster, New Jersey, golf club are panicking after being around the commander in chief hours before he announced that he was infected with the coronavirus.

    GOP donors have been reaching out to Trump campaign and GOP officials for any guidance following the event, according to a person briefed on the matter.

    “The donors have been texting and calling. Freaking out,” the person with direct knowledge said. This person declined to be named as the conversations were deemed private. …

    The gathering had tickets costing up to $250,000. Dr. Rich Roberts, a longtime Republican donor, told The Lakewood Scoop on Friday that Trump privately met with about 19 people at the event. Roberts estimates that the meeting lasted about 45 minutes. …

    How many of these donors run companies whose front line workers have been dealing with much worse risks
    for months?
    1. Lambert Strether Post authorOctober 2, 2020 at 3:26 pm

       > GOP donors ‘freaking out’

       So you’re telling me there’s a bright side?
46. Lex October 2, 2020 at 12:06 pm

    ‘America is About To Enter Its Years of Lead’

    One of things I appreciate about NC is that the Links introduce me to articles in publications I wouldn’t normally read or even think to read, like Foreign Policy or American Conservative. Those are outside my “bubble” and are proving both more illuminating and less odious than I would have projected from my comfort zone. My thanks to those contributors.
    1. diptherio October 2, 2020 at 2:07 pm

       That article sums up my biggest concerns right now pretty well. Of course, having recently finished Turchin’s Ages of Discord, which makes the case that the US is primed and due for some major civil violence, maybe I’m just susceptible to confirmatory opinions. But this type of scenario seems all too plausible to me. Armed protesters in State Houses (reopen protests) and Militia checkpoints on highways (NW fires) would have been inconceivable a few years ago. Now it happens and a lot of people seem to just shrug it off, as if it’s no big deal. Just some wacky right-wingers doing wacky right-wing things, amiright? But I really think there’s a good chance that all of this kind of thing just keeps escalating, rather than receding, no matter who wins the election. The Troubles are coming to America, I fear.

       And the author does a good job pinpointing the fundamental cause:

       State prevention of emancipatory politics leads to dissent, which is in turn repressed and delegitimized, further isolating social movements.

       The never-ending denial of any policy that might ameliorate the suffering, the financial precarity, the state violence, eventually leads to increasing forms of resistance. The only options are accept the boot on your neck or escalate your resistance. Burning police stations, anyone? And then,

       as the left grows more militant, influential, and strident in its demands, the right tries to inflame social tensions rather than defuse them. The violence has a dual purpose, to both suppress and provoke. The right’s aim is to cordon the left off from power by simultaneously intimidating them, eliciting escalation, getting the police to crack down, and using the chaos to manipulate public opinion and political alliances.

       Sound familiar? And the thing is, it works. I would bet there have been more comments on this site critical of the property destruction that’s occurred in conjunction with some of the protests, than have concerned themselves with vehicle attacks on protesters (documented in yesterday’s watercooler) or armed vigilantes hunting down Antifa buses. The next several years could be very interesting, and not in a good way.
       1. Lambert Strether Post authorOctober 2, 2020 at 3:36 pm

          “Bernie was the compromise.”

          From the FP article on the “strategy of tension”:

          the latter-day American pursuit of the strategy of tension is carried out largely in the open. The armed far-right doesn’t need a covert network to supply it with military equipment because America is awash in legal weapons. Militias and vigilantes don’t have to maintain underground communication networks because social media platforms allow them to operate freely. Police chat up the gunmen as they both eye BLM protesters. While the revelations regarding the Italian security services and political establishment’s relationship to right-wing violence didn’t fully emerge until police and parliament investigated in the 1990s, Republicans have publicly embraced figures like Kyle Rittenhouse, the alleged Kenosha shooter whom Fox News has transformed into a folk hero.

          If Biden wins, as polling suggests is likely, it’s hard to imagine the likes of Patriot Prayer will surrender and disappear. After all, Trump has cast the election as an apocalyptic fight for America’s soul with stakes as high as the fight against communism. Republicans portray Biden, however tendentiously, as a tool of Ilhan Omar, BLM, and antifa, and his potential victory as inherently illegitimate, recreating the fear of the left that led many in Europe during the Cold War to try to exclude Socialists and Communists from power.

          Given the persistence of the 2020 racial justice movement, it’s hard to imagine that the resurgent left will shy away from making demands of newly empowered Democrats. So to many on the armed far right, it might appear that their work will have only just begun if Biden takes office. They’ve got everything they need to continue operating as a domestic stay-behind network to antagonize, suppress and isolate the left—most valuable of all, permission from above.

          In Italy, “permission from above” mean the intelligence services. Here, apparently, “above” means Trump. Given that both black bloc and the armed far right are notoriously infiltrated by cops, I’m not so sure. I’m wondering if “with typical extravagance, they have two of them” applies at the fringes as well. A bizarre variant of Horseshoe Theory, I admit!

          OTOH, the Czar’s Ohkrana actually arranged for revolutionaries to assassinate government officials… And look whgere that got them…
47. allan October 2, 2020 at 12:38 pm

    Shot: White House COVID Testing Is Riddled With Holes, Insiders Say [Daily Beast]

    The easiest mark is the one who thinks he’s the conman.

    Chaser:

    Christina Wolbrecht @C_Wolbrecht

    .@NotreDame
    announces that President John Jenkins has tested positive for COVID.
    Jenkins was criticized for not wearing a mask when attending the ACB announcement
    in the rose garden last week.
    12:33 PM · Oct 2, 2020

    https://twitter.com/C_Wolbrecht/status/1312068198355922944
48. diptherio October 2, 2020 at 1:26 pm

    Sorry, but which country are we still on a MAD footing with, again? Who in their right mind would decide to launch a nuclear offensive against the US because the prez got sick? Apparently Cold War paranoia is still alive and well.
49. none October 2, 2020 at 1:45 pm

    I have an elderly family member who has been watching Fox News all morning. It is nonstop Trump-has-Covid. So Fox is finally taking Covid seriously. Maybe that will save some lives.
50. kareninca October 2, 2020 at 2:54 pm

    Trump will be holding a virtual rally today despite his covid infection (https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-hold-virtual-campaign-rally-friday-despite-covid-19-diagnosis).

    This is very interesting and if he does more of these it could have an effect on the election.  I could picture there being many people watching who would otherwise never go to a Trump rally or even watch one on TV.  There will be people watching who didn’t bother to watch the debates.  They will be watching since they will be obsessed with his physical health.  So instead of seeing brief, highly edited CNN clips, they will watch the whole thing, intently.

    Americans love people who “change”; who “see the light.” Trump is a great manipulator. Hmm.
    1. Lambert Strether Post authorOctober 3, 2020 at 4:29 am

       The Trump virtual rally has been cancelled.
51. JBird4049 October 3, 2020 at 4:43 am

    A quote from that Times article:

    Health care practitioners have already been seeing the impact of families’ scrambling to make ends meet on children’s health. “What I see every single day from the pandemic is really amazingly increased numbers of severely underweight children coming to our clinic, and parents really panicked about how they are going to find enough food,” Dr. Megan Sandel, co-director of the Grow Clinic for Children at Boston Medical Center and a lead investigator of Children’s HealthWatch, said on a recent press call.

    The emphasis is mine.

    I think that people have difficulty accepting that a few Americans died of starvation during the first winter of the First Great Depression. Those who died were found under snowdrifts, or in alleys, or alone in their apartments. They often had nobody to missed them. Then there are all the people who must have died not directly from starvation, but because they were too weak to deal with any diseases. That’s often how people die. Not from hunger, but from the next epidemic of whatever.

    And just as in the San Francisco’s 1906 Earthquake and Fire, there was probably efforts to fudge the totals. It’s taken decades to get anywhere near a true count. Many people were cremated, sometimes alive, and the paperwork of the committee for San Francisco’s rebuilding was “creative“. Bad for business if the true size became known. I doubt that New York City really wanted it known that bodies were being found or that people were dying in the hospitals.

    However, the size of the depression truly did surprise a lot of people and the various relief organizations, the religious charities, and the local state and municipal governments were running in months. Certainty by next winter there was apparently no deaths by starvation or even great want. I don’t think everyone was well-fed, but they were fed enough.

    What bothers me… no, let’s be honest here, what puzzles and f***ing enrages me is that underweight children are becoming a thing. The United States has always been self sufficient in food (aside from the wonderfulness that is chocolate and coffee) and a completely surprised and overwhelmed country was able to throw together a successful effort to feed everyone in about six months. Patchwork, yes of church, private, and government, but effective. Today, seven months after the start of the pandemic and depression I don’t see any growing system to feed the hungry. I do not read of any growing and increasingly effective system of feeding people. We have the food. Why can’t we do what they did in my great grandparents time? It should be easier. What is stopping us? Or are some capitalists making some money from the want, much like the grain merchants of India and Ireland and then blaming the (poor) starving victims during the 19th century? Cynical, know, but that is what happened then. Why not here, now?

Comments are closed.