Is It Time to Change the Definition of ‘Fully Vaccinated’?

Lambert here: “Scientists and public health officials are debating when it will be time to change the definition of ‘fully vaccinated’ to include a booster shot.” (1) When, not if. (2) “A” booster. In the singular.

By Victoria Knight, a reporter at Kaiser Health News. Originally published at Kaiser Health News.

As more indoor venues require proof of vaccination for entrance and with winter — as well as omicron, a new covid variant — looming, scientists and public health officials are debating when it will be time to change the definition of “fully vaccinated” to include a booster shot.

It’s been more than six months since many Americans finished their vaccination course against covid; statistically, their immunity is waning.

At the same time, cases of infections with the omicron variant have been reported in at least five states, as of Friday. Omicron is distinguished by at least 50 mutations, some of which appear to be associated with increased transmissibility. The World Health Organization dubbed it a variant of concern on Nov. 26.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has recommended that everyone 18 and older get a covid booster shot, revising its narrower guidance that only people 50 and up “should” get a shot while younger adults could choose whether or not to do so. Scientists assume the additional shots will offer significant protection from the new variant, though they do not know for certain how much.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, chief medical adviser to President Joe Biden, during a White House press briefing Wednesday was unequivocal in advising the public. “Get boosted now,” Fauci said, adding urgency to the current federal guidance. About a quarter of U.S. adults have received additional vaccine doses.

“The definition of ‘fully vaccinated’ has not changed. That’s, you know, after your second dose of a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, after your single dose of a Johnson & Johnson vaccine,” said the CDC’s director, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, during Tuesday’s White House briefing on covid. “We are absolutely encouraging those who are eligible for a boost six months after those mRNA doses to get your boost. But we are not changing the definition of ‘fully vaccinated’ right now.” A booster is recommended two months after receiving the J&J shot.

But that, she noted, could change: “As that science evolves, we will look at whether we need to update our definition of ‘fully vaccinated.’”

Still, the Democratic governors of Connecticut and New Mexico are sending a different signal in their states, as are some countries — such as Israel, which arguably has been the most aggressive nation in its approach. Some scientists point out that many vaccines involve three doses over six months for robust long-term protection, such as the shot against hepatitis. So “fully vaccinated” may need to include shot No. 3 to be considered a full course.

“In my view, if you were vaccinated more than six months ago, you’re not fully vaccinated,” Connecticut Gov. Ned Lamont said Nov. 18 during a press briefing. He was encouraging everyone to get boosted at that time, even before the federal government authorized extra shots for everyone.

New Mexico Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham had a similar response in mid-November, saying she defined “fully vaccinated” as receiving three shots of the mRNA type. She also opened up booster eligibility to all of her state residents before the CDC and Food and Drug Administration did.

What do the varying views on the evolving science mean for vaccine requirements imposed on travelers, or by schools or workplaces? And what about businesses that have required patrons to provide proof of vaccination?

Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children’s Hospital of Pennsylvania, said the CDC’s stronger recommendation for everyone to get boosted signals to him that a booster is now part of the vaccine regimen. Yet Offit, who is also a member of the FDA’s vaccine advisory committee, wrote a joint op-ed this week in which he and two other scientists argued that boosters were not yet needed for everyone and that healthy young people should wait to see whether an omicron-specific booster might be needed.

“I think when the CDC said they are recommending a third dose, they just made the statement that this is a three-dose vaccine series,” Offit told KHN. “And, frankly, I think it’s going to throw a wrench into mandates.”

Yet to be determined is whether restaurants or other places of business will look more closely at vaccine cards for the booster.

Dr. Georges Benjamin, executive director of the American Public Health Association, said it’s too early to say. “For now, businesses should stay focused on current guidelines,” he said.

Dr. Marc Siegel, an associate professor of medicine at the George Washington School of Medicine and Health Sciences, said the question of whether you are fully vaccinated with just two doses or need a booster is a question of semantics. Covid immunity level is the more important issue.

Siegel said he thinks more suitable terminology would be to call someone “appropriately” or “adequately” vaccinated against covid rather than “fully” vaccinated, since it’s possible that more boosters could be needed in the future — making “full vaccination” a moving target.

But, as with so many aspects of the pandemic, ambiguity prevails — both in federal guidance on the definition of “fully vaccinated” and in entrance policies, which vary by state, school and business.

Right now, businesses don’t appear to be checking for boosters, but that could change. So, it may be wise to first check the requirements — lest patrons present a two-shot vaccine passport, only to be turned away as inadequately protected.

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About Lambert Strether

Readers, I have had a correspondent characterize my views as realistic cynical. Let me briefly explain them. I believe in universal programs that provide concrete material benefits, especially to the working class. Medicare for All is the prime example, but tuition-free college and a Post Office Bank also fall under this heading. So do a Jobs Guarantee and a Debt Jubilee. Clearly, neither liberal Democrats nor conservative Republicans can deliver on such programs, because the two are different flavors of neoliberalism (“Because markets”). I don’t much care about the “ism” that delivers the benefits, although whichever one does have to put common humanity first, as opposed to markets. Could be a second FDR saving capitalism, democratic socialism leashing and collaring it, or communism razing it. I don’t much care, as long as the benefits are delivered. To me, the key issue — and this is why Medicare for All is always first with me — is the tens of thousands of excess “deaths from despair,” as described by the Case-Deaton study, and other recent studies. That enormous body count makes Medicare for All, at the very least, a moral and strategic imperative. And that level of suffering and organic damage makes the concerns of identity politics — even the worthy fight to help the refugees Bush, Obama, and Clinton’s wars created — bright shiny objects by comparison. Hence my frustration with the news flow — currently in my view the swirling intersection of two, separate Shock Doctrine campaigns, one by the Administration, and the other by out-of-power liberals and their allies in the State and in the press — a news flow that constantly forces me to focus on matters that I regard as of secondary importance to the excess deaths. What kind of political economy is it that halts or even reverses the increases in life expectancy that civilized societies have achieved? I am also very hopeful that the continuing destruction of both party establishments will open the space for voices supporting programs similar to those I have listed; let’s call such voices “the left.” Volatility creates opportunity, especially if the Democrat establishment, which puts markets first and opposes all such programs, isn’t allowed to get back into the saddle. Eyes on the prize! I love the tactical level, and secretly love even the horse race, since I’ve been blogging about it daily for fourteen years, but everything I write has this perspective at the back of it.


  1. Taurus

    As the variants multiply and some of them render existing vaccines ineffective, Biontech and Moderna will produce new variant-specific mRNA formulations. There was a statement from Pfizer that they are already working on an Omicron-targeting vaccine with an estimate of 100 days to production. If this comes to pass, the definition of fully vaccinated will be 2-shots of wild-type Vaccine + 2 shots of Omicron-specific vaccine. And you boost every one at a 6-month cadence … 5 years down the road, getting vaccinated will be a full time job.

    To quote the classics:” … that way madness lies …”

    1. Cocomaan

      Not even 6 months

      A booster is recommended two months after receiving the J&J shot.

      Does this mean you need a J and J shot every two months? That doesn’t make any sense.

    2. Let them eat boosters

      I just got my J&J booster. Spent 36 hours shivering uncontrollably with a fever of 102F, almost unable to even get out of bed, and an agonizing headache + dizziness for even longer.

      If the government or any other authority expects all of us to do this 2x a year multiplied by however many variants are going around… forget it.

      The bodies will keep piling up until the public has had enough. The ruling class doesn’t care but they don’t always get to decide.

      1. cwalsh

        My experience was similar with the first J&J: 102F, shivering and headache for over 24 hours. Not in a rush for another, and most definitely not interested in mRNA booster.

    3. Mikel

      It’s all a cover for systemic failure. The shots aren’t working if you have to keep taking that many.

      Covid is barely two years old and they don’t know the year after year long term effects of these shots. They’ve lost their minds.

      How lucky do you feel about continually avoiding adverse effects from shots?

      1. Chas

        I’m going to get a backpack, fill it with vaccine and put myself on a constant drip. That’s what fully vaccinated will look like in a couple of months.

        1. Jeff

          Does it work? What I mean is does the hep a&b vaccines prevent you from getting hep a&b? Because that’s not the case with mRNA vaccines.

      2. Basil Pesto

        The shots aren’t working if you have to keep taking that many.

        Well, no. Flu vaccines don’t not ‘not work’ if they have to be taken annually by those vulnerable every year, they just improve peoples’ odds. The salutary benefit of the covid vaccines has been established beyond doubt – if you are infected, they give you the best chance at avoiding the worst possible outcomes – death, severe illness, and maybe even long covid – but they are emphatically not “the road out of the pandemic” or they key to ‘living with’ the virus or whatever. This “vaccines work”/”vaccines don’t work” framing is idiotically facile whether it is coming from those who are pro-vaccine obsessive stans, or those with anti-vaccine tendencies.

        Meanwhile, if you personally have made the decision not to get the vaccine, good for you, but for those who are undecided and anxious about both the virus and the vaccine, you do them a disservice by casually throwing out crap like “the shots aren’t working”

        It is not the vaccines’ fault, or the fault of those who did the work to create them, that they have been oversold and been put at the forefront of public health policy when the real role they have to play is as the last line of defence against the virus. They are important tools and have important parts to play in managing the virus (just like Ivermectin might).

        Covid is barely two years old and they don’t know the year after year long term effects of these shots.

        Well, perhaps they don’t exist? Or maybe they don’t/can’t/won’t exist in sufficient numbers to be concerned about given the very real, very known long term effects of the disease conferred by the virus itself. It’s a feasible concern but do we have any plausible evidence of how such long term effects might come to pass? Furthermore, are these effects worse than those caused by the unchecked virus that we’ve allowed to spread uncontrolled and which some people, despite their best efforts, will be unable to avoid?

        1. Lambert Strether Post author

          > It is not the vaccines’ fault, or the fault of those who did the work to create them, that they have been oversold and been put at the forefront of public health policy when the real role they have to play is as the last line of defence against the virus. They are important tools and have important parts to play in managing the virus

          Yes, but I would say that the fault of the scientists who did the work to create them.

          1. Basil Pesto

            If the same scientists subsequently oversold them and advocated putting them at the forefront of Covid policy response, then yes, I agree. But I don’t know how much the rank and file in vaccine development have a say in that. On the other hand, I seem to remember that the woman who was the lead on developing the AZ vaccine has been rather outspoken.

      3. Malcolm Torpe

        If your interested the model for this has been played out in beef production for years. They give cows and calves multiple vaccines to treat everything, and are trying very hard to withhold antibiotics. In Canada you need a prescription now to treat a sick cow with an antibiotic, and likely a farm visit, but they will gladly hand you hundreds or Pfizer vaccines unquestioned. On television you see people brag about antibiotic free…. That’s not the evil medicine. Keep going down this road and you will be like cattle. FYI 35 years in our herd, no Pfizer products necessary…. We are still waiting for the beef pandemic that’s been going on for years. It’s diet folks. Vitamins and diet.

  2. Pat

    If the restaurant checks at all. I do pick up. I have had my status confirmed once. My favorite is the signs in Starbucks telling people to show their cards if they want to sit. Not happening.
    That may change with Omicron. We’ll see.


    1. Orangier

      We’re keeping a list of all establishments that demand this B.S., unless it’s a county wide mandate. We will boycott them forever, smear their reputation and encourage others to do the same.

      1. Mantid

        As you find some places that demand vaccines, let us know. I’ll help out. I figure get 2-4 friends to go to a resto and say you’re there for a nice dinner. If they say prove you’re vaccinated, demand to speak to the manager or lead person. when they come, raise a bit of a stink and let them know they are losing out on a large dinner party and tips if they don’t admit you – hopefully in front of current eaters. If they insist, leave – take your biz elsewhere. And regarding QR codes, carry a sharpie type marker with you and every time you see one, put a dot on it. It will mess with their system.

        1. Yves Smith

          The problem with your plan is that just about everyone believes that the vaccines prevent contagion, so they will see your demand to be seated as a selfish plan to kill them. You won’t win supporters.

          1. polecat

            Well, if one were to be patient, they might find that the problem of ‘winning over’ the hopium-vexed may resolve itself .. as many of them may very well ‘cease-to-function’, due to jumping the revolver as it were, by choosing Big pHarma’s janky version($) of roulett.

          2. AJB

            This whole ‘prevents transmission’ narrative is believed by so many people and is the root of so many problems. The vaxxed v unvaxxed battle cultivated by politicians is based mostly on uninformed vaxxed seeing themselves as non-spreaders. I hear it over and over again that the ‘unvaxxed will spread’ but vaxxed are no threat.

    1. Carolinian

      as with so many aspects of the pandemic, ambiguity prevails

      Digest version of the above. Of course uncertainty is always the club that is used against dissident versions of medicine such as advocacy for cheap, generic drugs like ivermectin. When it comes to expensive, authoritarian versions of medicine uncertainty is ok.

      Or is that being too cynical?

          1. ambrit

            You be very ‘safe’ with that stent. You have a ways to go yet before your body acclimates to it. Remember the more serious procedure you went through a year ago? Think like that. We want you to be around for a long time.

      1. Mantid

        Yes, that is an amazing series. More up to date as far as recent discoveries and not too much like the BBC or History channel. They have lost my respect.

  3. ven

    This is an interesting December 2021 paper dissecting the England data on vaccine efficacy.

    Essentially shows that all-cause mortality for unvaccinated vs vaccinated (by age group) peaks at time of vaccination programme, and then progressively declines to being marginally higher than vaccinated. They then look at non-Covid mortality and bizarrely it is higher for unvaccinated than vaccinated (even though the vaccinated will have the older / more vulnerable segments), again peaking at the time of vaccine rollout.

    They conclude that there are miscategorisations of vaccine status, and suggest that there is no evidence to suggest that vaccines reduce all-cause mortality, and indeed that there is a spike in mortality shortly after vaccination.

    Defining “fully vaccinated” becomes a moot point, if this analyses holds water.

    1. saywhat?

      Yes, I’ve read that one is not considered vaccinated until 14(?) days after the injection which is very conveniently the window when most adverse vaccine reactions occur.

      So if the jab kills you within 14 days, you died unvaccinated!?

      1. ven

        They are hypothesising that if you die within 14 days of the first jab you are classified as unvaccinated, and if you die within 14 days of the second jab you are classified as single dose. Given that most adverse event deaths happen within this time period of a jab, it seems a plausible explanation of the shape of the excess mortality curves following vaccine roll-out by age group.

        That leaves us in a situation where there is no strong evidence to suggest that vaccines actually do reduce mortality. Indeed Pfizer’s study only showed a reduction in symptoms, not in mortality where various convenient exclusions occluded the findings.

        So vaccines don’t reduce transmission, and may not even reduce mortality.

        In the meantime we have evidence that vaccines cause various adverse events including myocarditis – and that is just in the short term. Let alone the issue off virus mutation selection, ADE, etc.

        And the establishment is blocking early treatment therapies, and even suspending doctors who advocate for them – perhaps because the EUA of vaccines necessitates no other alternative?

        And our elites are still talking about vaccine mandates in the face of the above. That is either gross stupidity / incompetence, or something far worse.

    2. TimH

      “non-Covid mortality and bizarrely it is higher for unvaccinated than vaccinated”

      I’d expect that, on the prejudice that the population of refusers is less healthy than the population of vaccinated.

    3. generic

      That reads more like a blogpost than a paper.

      So the supposed core observations are:

      In each group the non-Covid mortality rates in the three different categories of vaccinated people
      fluctuate in a wild, but consistent way, far removed from the expected historical mortality rates.
      • Whereas the non-Covid mortality rate for unvaccinated should be consistent with historical
      mortality rates (and if, anything slightly lower than the vaccinated non-Covid mortality rate) it is
      not only higher than the vaccinated mortality rate, but it is far higher than the historical mortality
      • In previous years each of the 60-69, 70-79 and 80+ groups have mortality peaks at the same time
      during the year (including 2020 when all suffered the April Covid peak at the same time). Yet in
      2021 each age group has non-Covid mortality peaks for the unvaccinated at a different time,
      namely the time that vaccination rollout programmes for those cohorts reach a peak.
      • The peaks in the Covid mortality data for the unvaccinated are inconsistent with the actual Covid

      Point two is obviously nonsense. The non-covid mortality should not follow historical patterns. We had changes in movement patterns, delay of medical procedures and a whole year without a flu wave, because NPIs wiped it out. All things are not equal, as it turns out.
      I haven’t looked at the rest in detail, but tried to figure out where the last point is supposed to come from and I can’t make head nor tail of it. In chapter 6 they claim to adjust the timing of mortality to the point of infection; so shift one data series on the x axis. But that’s clearly not what those figures are. Compare figure 19 and 23. That’s clearly not the same data, shifted by three weeks, for unvaccinated mortality.
      There’s also a weird paragraph in chapter 6 where they’re just asking questions about whether the vaccines will make you sick, completely unrelated to the discussion of methodology for their data manipulation.

      Overall I would be really surprised if that passed peer review. Looks like quackery to me.

      1. Yves Smith

        Alabama had negative excess deaths during the first national Covid wave (which was very very mild here, we get ours late and only then bad) due to the lockdown and the fall in road accidents.

      2. ven

        Actually on p3/4, they suggest no significant non-COVID mortality difference by age group relative to prior years.

        The point about non-COVID mortality is primarily an intra-year comparison between vaccinated and non-vaccinated groups, with the non-vaccinated being higher. There is no obvious reason why this should be – which is what the paper is trying to hypothesise about. The point about prior years, is that the all- population non-COVID mortality is broadly similar to prior years, but the unvaccinated is notably higher, and the vaccinated is notably lower.

        Further the data shows that the non-Covid mortality peaks, for each age group in the unvaccinated at the same time as the vaccine roll-out. That is the data set out in figures 8-10.

        Figures 12-14 show for each age group the vaccine rollout (1st and 2nd dose) to unvaccinated non-covid mortality and single dose non-covid mortality. The figures speak for themselves.

        Your point on comparing the temporal shift in figures 19 and 23. You are right, it is not clearly explained. I think what they are doing is taking 3 weeks off the death date to approximate the infection date, and to then recalculate the % mortality given the smaller size of the vaccinated population at t-3 vs t, etc

        1. generic

          Not clear to me at all why you would want to do that? And anyway that alone can’t explain the shape of the curves. There is a clear excess in unvaccinated deaths starting around week 30 in figures 19-21. That’s after the vaccination campaign stalled out according to figures 22-24, so the population doesn’t change here. Yet the excess is completely gone. The text in chapter 6 only mentions timing.
          I can’t really speak to the rest, there might be some point there, but I don’t trust their data manipulation and they keep filling paragraphs with wild speculation before they sufficiently explain what they think the data shows.

  4. QuarterBack

    If vaccine mandates are going to be the new normal, maybe it’s time to privatize the vaccine industry. Why should a few private companies receive dynastic rentier profits, while retaining proprietary rights to patents and data while tax payers foot the bill and Government mandates sales?

        1. John

          Why indeed: To quote Lambert’s simple ruled, because business. Could there be any other reason.

          Is not ivermectin an old, ergo, generic medication? Is not therefore inexpensive? Is it known whether or not it has efficacy in the treatment of COVID? Could it be that the lack of a large profit has something to do with its being banished to the outer darkness?

          1. Yeti1958

            Not so quick on the cost of IVM. I finally got my 5 day 12mg/day prescription filled after waiting seven months. Cost?….$170 Can. That works out to just under $9/3mg tablet.

              1. Ping

                Your order of Ivermectin suffered from price gouging. It only costs a few cents per dose to produce and easy to manufacture. Before supply was cut I got a year of preventative dosages from Utah Compounding Pharmacy for $57. including shipping. Supply was sharply cut with the “horse paste” corporate media campaign in advance of rolling out Molnupiravir, Merck’s toxic mutagenic antiviral at $700. for a 5 day course.

            1. drsteve0

              That you got ripped off for a course of that macrocyclic lactone that starts with I’ve and ends with ectin has little to do with the fact that the base drug is incredibly cheap. When a hospital bill reflects a charge of $250.00 for an aspirin, does that mean the cost of aspirin is !outrageous!?

  5. BeliTsari

    Attenuated live virus nose sprays, or convalescent serum (from, say… naive, YOUNG cytokine hijacked immune systems; all packed together in old airless, steam heated old buildings?) I’m pretty sure, they’ll soon be a panoply of offers we can’t refuse: work, school, transit, insurance, EZ Credit, shopping… Anybody seeing Costco or Walmart greeters with swabs or mucosal nitric-oxide precursor sprays?

    I’d figured: manditory pulse-oximiter apps for travel?

  6. Eric377

    Any word on Israel experience with booster decay? They probably close to seeing people as far past their first booster as they were past their original vaccination when they boosted.

  7. Tom Stone

    It’s been 8 months since my second jab of Moderna,and yesterday was our first real low pressure system.
    Due to my injuries that’s something that brings itself to my attention, every year for 28 years.
    The pain I experienced yesterday was the worst I have had in several decades,even with painkillers and muscle relaxants it was an effort not to yell with every step.
    Today is no fun, but better.
    Fauci can take his booster and put it where the sun don’t shine and I hope he pokes his eye out when he does.

    1. chris

      I’m so sorry to hear that.

      I had something strange happen to me recently too, which may or may not be related to having had the 2nd shot of Moderna last May. I had a bout of Bell’s palsy. I had experienced that 12 years ago, and I was under the impression that you couldn’t experience it twice. Guess I was wrong. My face drooped on my right side, I had trouble closing my eyes, my hearing went funny, etc. Just like it had happened 12 years ago. It took a few weeks to get better, also just like last time. I didn’t think anything of it, but then I started hearing lots of people telling the same kind of stories – even Chris Arnade in a recent interview.

      I wonder if any of it is related to the vaccines?

    2. griffen

      I’ve recently completed the two step of the Moderna dosage. I am not looking forward to a 3rd, 4th or 5th step in this particular vaccination scheme.

      I’m sure of one thing that you pointed out. Fauci probably has hired help to plant that booster!

    3. NotThePilot

      I’m relatively young and didn’t have much trouble with the Pfizer shot, beyond being really tired the day after the 2nd dose.

      But I get the weird feeling I might technically qualify as a (closeted) anti-vaxxer for the next few months or so. I’m not worried about the mRNA technology much at all unless some weird Rube-Goldberg process can happen that I’m not aware of. It’s a simple matter of balancing risks and uncertainty.

      I definitely didn’t want to be one of the first to get the mRNA shots, just in case there were a lot of weird responses. But after a few months of listening about complications, it definitely seemed way less risky than covid (especially long covid).

      A 3rd dose isn’t the same treatment though, and even if it adds only a very small risk, I haven’t been convinced the benefits justify it. Everything I’ve heard so far is just that it bumps existing, active antibodies up again; granted, that might help keep delta at bay, but I’m not sure a continually elevated antibody level is a good thing. And we don’t even know if that will help much with omicron yet.

  8. Yuri

    >(2) “A” booster. In the singular.

    It certainly will not be singular. I’ll take all comers on that bet.

  9. Jeremy Grimm

    I suppose a new vaccination AUSWEIS had best provide plenty of pages and places to indicate a ‘fully-vaccinated’ status as the Corona Plague progresses.

  10. Ping

    The definition of fully vaccinated is irrelevant because:

    • The vaccines do not confer immunity or prevent transmission.
    • What beneficial effect they do have wears off, they don’t know when.
    • They probably don’t protect against new variants or mutations especially because the vaccines are non-sterilizing and the vaccinated can be vectors for mutation.
    • The vaccines have unknown long term side effects.

    Was is really so hard to distribute free home test/treatment kits that include that Nobel prize winning but censored med and doxycycline and other meds while vaccinating ONLY the immune compromised….NOT healthy people and not healthy kids?

    The Indian province of Uttar Pradesh of 200 million with low vax rates but aggressive distribution of home test/treatment kits that included above mentioned meds virtually eliminated Covid.

    And recently Japan initiated mass distribution of above mentioned censored med and 12 days later Covid infection plunged.

    Dr. John Campbell presents good video documentation on both cases.

    Is is really so hard to follow “real” science and results or is the public to be kept in a state of panic diving to the nearest jab center, still functioning under EUA with no pharma liability while Fauci censors information thu control of research grants for maximized private profit.

    1. Basil Pesto

      • The vaccines have unknown long term side effects.

      If they’re unknown side effects, then how can you know that they exist? It is only fair to say “the vaccines might have unknown long term side effects.

      Meanwhile, Covid definitely does have long term “side effects”. If the vaccines attenuate these at population scale even slightly, which evidence suggests that they might (but still not enough, imo, for the vaccines to be the primary policy response to the pandemic), then they are worthwhile treatments.

      And recently Japan initiated mass distribution of above mentioned censored med and 12 days later Covid infection plunged.

      I call bullshit. Let’s see some good, substantial evidence that goes beyond “John Campbell said…”. Lambert and I both spent some time last month searching for such evidence, in the case of both UP and Japan. If it exists, we haven’t found it. What we found would suggest that attributing UP and Japan’s recent relative Covid success exclusively to Ivermectin is reckless, not to mention an insult to the grown-up broad-spectrum public health response that they are implementing and which all western countries could learn from.

      1. Lambert Strether Post author

        > What we found would suggest that attributing UP and Japan’s recent relative Covid success exclusively to Ivermectin is reckless, not to mention an insult to the grown-up broad-spectrum public health response that they are implementing and which all western countries could learn from.


      2. Pat

        So what we are really saying here is that the US and several other nations have chosen an unnecessarily limited public health action which are being sold with propaganda AND much of the response of those that recognize this has also been advanced with propaganda.

        Vaccines on their own will not do this, the available home solutions will not do it, and our betters are unwilling to put forth the time, effort, money, and suffer the wrath of the inconvenienced to do what else would be needed.

        IOW what is not happening is a recognition of the need for and the implementation of a grownup broad-spectrum public health response. Which in the US may no longer be possible due to both long term neoliberal policies and the destruction of faith in public health that this ham handed unavoidably clearly deficient market based response has created.

        Does that about cover the rock and the hard place we are in?

      3. Ping


        Dr. Campbell read from the Japanese Ministry of Health Documents, was that phony?

        Could it be that the introduction of IVM contributed greatly to the plunge in Covid?

        With low vax rates, the 200 million province of Uttar Pradash home test/treatment kits including IVM and other meds vastly reduced Covid. It’s well documented if you care to sift thru media blackout and WHO spin who can’t allow an alternative to vaccine centric narrative.

        I call bullshit on dismissal of alternatives for healthy people with credible examples.

        Here’s a hint: much of the world can’t afford products like toxic mutagenic Molnupiravir or care to pledge state assets to Pfizer, yet are achieving excellent results with alternatives.

        If the vaccines so safe, why are they still administered under EUA with no liability almost 2 years later? How many times have the goal posts changed while claiming it’s the most tested vaccine EVAH (bald faced lie).

        Further, I personally know of 6 examples of people with health issues long in remission suddenly activate months after vaccination. Just a coincidence? Hmmm…. They don’t make the possible connection but I’ve made note of the trend.

        1. Lambert Strether Post author

          > Dr. Campbell read from the Japanese Ministry of Health Documents, was that phony?

          Got a link? I looked seriously into the claims made by The Drug advocates regarding the Tokyo Metropolitan Medical Association’s recommendations, and based on the coverage I found, the claims made were, well, false. Once bitten, twice shy. Anybody can read anything into a camera. That’s not evidence.

          1. Ping

            *Revised post including link*

            Lambert, check at 17 minutes plus, document from Chairman of Tokyo Medical Association that previous post omitted.


            Trial Site News has covered the 200 million province Uttar Pradash success with home test/treatment kits, a link for their coverage included in article below. As you may know, Trial Site News analyzes pharma trials, notoriously designed for desired outcome.

            1. Yves Smith

              Keep this misrepresentation up and you will not be welcome here.

              No statement of the sort was made by the Tokyo Metropolitan Medical Association. All there was was a statement by the chairman who did not articulate anything within hailing distance of an official position of the organization:

              “Dr Haruo Ozaki, the chairman of the Tokyo Medical Association, said at a news conference that the drug may have benefits for COVID patients but needs to be studied further.”


              And I have worked extensively with the Japanese. Decisions are not made by CEOs or chairmen. They are made by senior-ish middle managers (early 40s) and the review by more senior levels is ceremonial.

          2. wilwon3

            On January 19, 2021, Dr. David Martin (U of Virginia Schhool of Medicine) released ‘The Fauci/COVID-19 Dossier’, which contains 205 pages which describe 22 years of research. Dr. Martin’s analyses clearly indicate a number of laws have been violated to enable Dr. A. Fauci and various accociates to convince President Biden that the public should accept gene therapy to treat Covid-19 symtomology. Included in the group of broken laws is one having to do with the “war on terror”.




            In a recent Senate confrontation, Sen. R. Paul accused Dr. A Fauci of ‘gain of function’ research. Rather than proceed to a criminal charge, R. Paul backed off; In a recent comment, Dr. Martin made a comment suggesting he had info about thatevent, but he did not disclose why R. Paul backed down.

  11. heresy101

    The US will likely start a war with China now that they probably have a antibody that works against the virus and will sink big pharma. Instead of focusing on the rapidly mutating spikes of the virus, it attaches to the parts that don’t mutate.

    Chinese scientists claim to have isolated an antibody which can effectively neutralize all strains of Covid-19, referencing both lab experiments and those performed on a living organism

    The scientists noted that the antibody also works on the highly mutated Delta variant, which has been responsible for deadly waves of infection around the world since it first emerged in India earlier this year.

    “35B5 neutralizes SARS-CoV-2 [Covid-19] by targeting a unique epitope [part of the antigen molecule which the antibody attaches itself to] that avoids the prevailing mutation sites,” the study explains. In other words, 35B5 targets a unique part of the virus that does not change during the mutation process.

    By targeting part of the virus which is not impacted by the mutations identified in circulating VOCs, antibody 35B5 demonstrated capacity for “pan-neutralizing efficacy” across multiple strains.

    1. Louis Fyne

      FDA will never give emergency authorization to a Russian or Chinese product….even if there is unequivocal clinical data, absent a public outcry

      The regulatory capture and Russo/Sinophobia runs deep at FDA and DC

      1. Anthony Stegman

        Since the government indirectly and directly pays much if not most of this nation’s medical bills it will most certainly not use taxpayer money to pay for products produced by other countries, especially China and Russia, regardless of their effectiveness. Pure politics. The same plays out at state and local levels where you will never see Toyota or Honda police cars. The political class does not distinguish between life saving medicines and police cars. Buy American. Only.

  12. Yellowface Anon

    This is the 2nd stage of a program of involuntary unemployment: first, you force employers to fire the unvaccinated; second, the vaccinated but who just can’t get the booster in time, until the entire economy has a structural unemployment problem that has always been avoidable in the first place.

    It is also the recipe for an artificial Depression.

  13. Big River Bandido

    Rochelle Walensky: “As the science evolves”

    This is just PMC-speak for “as we move the goalposts to cover our previous failures”.

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