Coffee Break: Information War Goes Sectarian, Trump vs. the Pope

POTUS Trump’s ugly and open social media conflict with Pope Leo XIV is a new chapter in the information war that shows some deep sectarian cracks in the American pro-war consensus.

UPDATE: April 13, 12:30pm. I came across this May, 2025 piece from the Times (UK) about American financial influence on the Vatican (archived) and the whole piece should be read with this financial sectarian context in mind:

The Catholic Church faces a huge operational deficit and American donors have descended on Rome offering to help. But their presence on the eve of conclave raises questions about outside influence.

The event, hosted by an influential US-based Catholic organisation, the Papal Foundation, began with a speech by its chairman, Cardinal Timothy Dolan, a charismatic conservative-leaning prelate from New York. Dolan, 75, joked that the ballroom, with its chandeliers, columns and ceiling frescoes, was pleasant enough “but not as nice as the Sistine Chapel”, where he will be sequestered from Wednesday with 132 other cardinals for the conclave to select the next pope.
The previous day, President Trump had appeared to nominate Dolan as his preferred candidate. Joking with reporters outside the White House, Trump had initially suggested himself for the job of pontiff, before saying: “We have a cardinal that happens to be out of a place called New York who’s very good, so we’ll see what happens.”

In reality, the chances of an American cardinal who has received Trump’s blessing being chosen as pope are close to zero, not least because Pope Francis, who died on Easter Monday, stacked the College of Cardinals with liberal prelates. America is also a religious battleground whose 277 Catholic bishops are more conservative than its ten cardinal electors.

Nevertheless, conservative American Catholics are still trying to play an influential role in shaping the future of the church at a time when it is bitterly divided and facing deep financial woes.

The real papal lobbying does not take place during the conclave, but in the run-up, during the nine days of mourning known as Novemdiales. This solemn period is marked by a series of ancient rituals, prayers and formal “general congregations” that all cardinals attend. It is also when gossip and discussions play out at restaurants and clubs and the tone for conclave is set.

The Pope vs. the Donald

Last week, we re-posted John Helmer’s “The Pope and the US Bishops Are Threatening the Catholic Vote for Trump and His Successors” which summarized the sectarian conflict between Trump ad Pope Leo as of Friday.

The main thing from that piece I want to remind readers of is the impact on Trump’s polling, via Newsweek:

Among Catholic voters, 48 percent said they approve of Trump’s job performance, while 52 percent disapprove, a net negative of 4 points.

Just weeks earlier, Catholics had leaned the other way.

In the prior Fox News poll, conducted February 28 through March 2, 2026, Trump held a narrow edge with Catholics.

In that survey, 52 percent approved and 48 percent disapproved, giving him a net positive rating of 4 points.

Yves covered the Pope’s Sunday comments in this morning’s Iran War roundup. TL;DR version:

“I don’t want to get into a debate with him,” Leo said. “I don’t think that the message of the Gospel is meant to ⁠be abused in the ⁠way that some people are doing.

“I will continue to speak out loudly against war, looking to promote ⁠peace, promoting dialogue and multilateral relationships among the states ⁠to look for just ⁠solutions to problems.

“Too many innocent people are being killed. And I think someone has to ‌stand ‌up and say there’s a better way.”

Holy Thirty Years War, sectarian man!

Trump’s Sunday night sectarian Truth Social screed in response is remarkable:

Pope Leo is WEAK on Crime, and terrible for Foreign Policy. He talks about “fear” of the Trump Administration, but doesn’t mention the FEAR that the Catholic Church, and all other Christian Organizations, had during COVID when they were arresting priests, ministers, and everybody else, for holding Church Services, even when going outside, and being ten and even twenty feet apart. I like his brother Louis much better than I like him, because Louis is all MAGA. He gets it, and Leo doesn’t! I don’t want a Pope who thinks it’s OK for Iran to have a Nuclear Weapon. I don’t want a Pope who thinks it’s terrible that America attacked Venezuela, a Country that was sending massive amounts of Drugs into the United States and, even worse, emptying their prisons, including murderers, drug dealers, and killers, into our Country. And I don’t want a Pope who criticizes the President of the United States because I’m doing exactly what I was elected, IN A LANDSLIDE, to do, setting Record Low Numbers in Crime, and creating the Greatest Stock Market in History. Leo should be thankful because, as everyone knows, he was a shocking surprise. He wasn’t on any list to be Pope, and was only put there by the Church because he was an American, and they thought that would be the best way to deal with President Donald J. Trump. If I wasn’t in the White House, Leo wouldn’t be in the Vatican. Unfortunately, Leo’s Weak on Crime, Weak on Nuclear Weapons, does not sit well with me, nor does the fact that he meets with Obama Sympathizers like David Axelrod, a LOSER from the Left, who is one of those who wanted churchgoers and clerics to be arrested. Leo should get his act together as Pope, use Common Sense, stop catering to the Radical Left, and focus on being a Great Pope, not a Politician. It’s hurting him very badly and, more importantly, it’s hurting the Catholic Church! President DONALD J. TRUMP

This, naturally drew a response from the Iranian president:

It also got this comeback from Catholic Arena, an X.com account with 135,000 followers. This tweet got almost 500,000 views (and a few accusations of anti-semitism):

Blasphemer-In-Chief

Trump’s not content with insulting the Pope, he’s also expanded the sectarian conflict into outright heresy:

At least one prominent evangelical was put off and called out Trump in a post that got over 1.7 million views on X.com:

Outraging people who should be sectarian allies is never smart strategy.

Trump’s Truth social following didn’t like it much either.

Trump later deleted the post and offered an oh so convincing explanation when asked about it:

Hours later Trump supporters were singing from the same hymnal (note who posted this roundup, she’s our next main character)

Trump’s Religious Freedom Commission

This sectarian conflict has been spilling out into public since February when Texas Lt. Governor Dan Patrick booted Catholic activist Carrie Prejean Boller off of Trump’s Religious Liberty Commission.

I covered this sectarian scrap for Ian Welsh at the time:

POTUS Trump’s Religious Liberty Commission is tearing itself apart in a fight about zionism.

The leading dissident, Carrie Prejean Boller, the 2009 Miss California USA is a right-wing Catholic who picked a fight with zionists at a meeting of the Commission.

Boller’s quotes to The Atlantic were notable:

“It is not a biblical mandate that I have to worship Israel,” Carrie Prejean Boller told me today. The former Miss California USA turned social-media influencer was dismissed from President Trump’s Religious Liberty Commission yesterday after drawing charges of anti-Semitism. But, she wanted to make clear, she regrets nothing—and has no intention of disappearing without a fight.

Boller’s conflicts with Trump and his zionist allies brought Tucker Carlson and Bishop Joseph Strickland into the fray.

It should be noted that Pope Francis removed Strickland from his post in Tyler, Texas in 2023, in case anyone is thinking Trump is in conflict solely with the liberal wing of the church.

Carlson introduced the conversation and summed up the conflict between Boller and Patrick as such:

A woman called Carrie Peen Bowler who was a member of the president’s Religious Liberty Task Force. She was expelled from it, from my reading, for two reasons. One she called attention to the deaths of innocents in Gaza and made the point that their lives were as valuable as anyone else’s. And two, she refused the basic tenants of zionism, political Zionism and said that she didn’t have to sign up for that as a Christian and she was expelled for that.

Strickland then explained what brought him into the fray on Boller’s side and went on to elaborate on his view of Gaza and the information war around it:

Carrie was rejected primarily because they didn’t want her to speak that truth. They tried to silence her and ultimately it backfires. When someone is speaking truth trying to oppose it does backfire.

Truth prevails. Truth continues because of the essence of what it is. It is truth. And we see that over and over again when truth is being proclaimed and whatever powers of the world try to squelch that truth, try to silence it.

Carrie was removed as one voice echoing the truth that is Jesus Christ. She was removed because of that. And look what’s happened. Her voice has grown. I had no idea who Carrie Prejeen Bowler was before she got removed. And then I end up making a statement about her. That is a beautiful example of what we all need to remember for ourselves in our personal journey against sin and death. And in the global journey, we need to remember if it’s the truth, it will come out and it will prevail.

And it’s not just arch-conservative Catholics who are challenging Trump and his pro-zionist narratives.

ShoeOnHead vs Dispensationalists

June Nicole Lapine, the popular vlogger who calls herself Shoe on Head dropped a video around the same time calling out “The American Doomsday Cult Pushing For War.” It racked up 1 million views on YouTube.

Lapine opens her talk with Trump’s stated reason for attacking Iran:

Well, a few weeks ago, our government had a “that’s so raven” premonition. They had a vision and they saw into the future. They saw that Iran was going to attack Israel. So, we went ahead and attacked Iran. Now, we’re in some war. No, I am not joking. That’s basically what happened. Despite the Pentagon saying there was no proof Iran was going to attack, it came to us in a dream. Source: We made it the up.

Then she goes into a fairly competent explanation of Dispensationalism and its massive influence on American decision makers.

There are people in our government right now who believe in a biblical prophecy about Israel. Pete Hegseth, Lindsey Graham, Mike Pompeo, Ted Cruz, Mike Johnson, Mike Huckabee, and many, many others believe a massive war surrounding the Middle East will bring Jesus Christ back.

They want this. To them, this is the good ending. We’ll all be saved. Great. Awesome. Unfortunately, many Americans and many people all around the world will die in a giant nuclear war. Not great, bad, even.

This particular religion is called Dispensationalism. A type of evangelical Christianity that became popular in the 20th century. That’s right. Today, we are talking about the EQ, the evangelical question.

Evangelicals are one of the largest religious groups in America and they are a huge important voter block. Important detail to remember.

What you have to understand is evangelical Christianity is absolutely obsessed with the end times. This isn’t just like an off-hand thing that’s mentioned in the Bible and they bring up sometimes. No, this is like their whole thing. It’s like all their talks, their sermons, their books. Basically, they are extremely horny for the end of the world. And many of those people are in the president’s ear right now.

She even gets into the history of the sect and acknowledges her own sectarian position:

What do these people mean by biblical mandate? Well, thanks to the Scofield Bible, a version of the Bible that placed little notes next to everything that explained the Biblical text, evangelicals believe it is their duty to protect Israel.

You’re probably thinking like, okay, so what? Like, we have overlapping interests with Israel. Who cares if these evangelicals want to protect Israel, right?

Well, there’s a little more to it. Basically, the evangelical dispensationalist belief goes like this.

Step one, the Jewish people return to the land of Israel. Step two, Israel becomes the main character in a massive war. Step three, global destruction called the tribulation occurs. Step four, Armageddon happens. And step five, Jesus Christ returns.

Behold the fruits of Martin Luther. To get my biases out of the way a little bit, I was born and raised Catholic. Baptized, communion, confirmation, catechism class for years, all that stuff.

I stopped caring for a while. I had like a edgy atheist stage as a teenager. Then I was agnostic for a while. And then in 2020 when I moved back home during COVID, I returned to Catholicism.

Needless to say, I am comfortable with identifying as Catholic again today. I don’t talk about this because it’s not relevant, but it’s relevant here.

I have many Protestant friends. A few are evangelical. This isn’t to like hate on them, even though I’m going to be making jokes, but it’s just to shine a light on a heavy bias some people in power may have towards the Middle East. If a bunch of Catholics were in power pushing for us to go to war for the Vatican or something, that would also be a conversation worth having, but that is not happening right now.

And if you’re wondering why Ted Cruz suddenly out of nowhere is sharing like 10,000 word AI slop Twitter essays about how Catholics are parasites, it’s because he’s butt hurt that Catholics don’t believe in the same doomsday prophecy about Israel as him and other evangelicals do. Catholics are not religiously obligated to support Israel. Same with Orthodox. And honestly, most branches of Christianity.

Evangelical Protestants, on the other hand, don’t know how to read and think the modern state of Israel is the same Israel mentioned in the Bible.

This would be like the fry cook at McDonald’s being named Jesus and you falling to your knees and worshiping him as a savior and then blowing up the world for him.

But it’s not just alt media YouTubers getting in on the sectarian action.

MSM Raising Sectarian Warning Flags Too

Canada’s ultra-mainstream Globe and Mail had an op-ed over the weekend about Secretary of Defeat Hegseth.

The piece opens with some background on Hegseth’s “spiritual advisor” Doug Wilson of the Association of Classical Christian Schools and then gets into Wilson’s relationship with, and influence over Hegseth and has some juicy deets on Hegseth’s personal history and sectarian ways:

At this monthly Pentagon prayer meeting, standing next to Mr. Wilson, Mr. Hegseth made an admission: “We are all fallen,” he said, his left hand resting on Mr. Wilson’s shoulder. “We are all sinful, we are all in need of the grace of God, and all in need of redemption. I certainly stand chief among them.”

For those who knew Mr. Hegseth’s history, it was a surprisingly candid admission of the sybaritic life he’d led until his stark religious awakening some time in 2018. The litany of Mr. Hegseth’s transgressions was long and sordid. His own mother, in a 2018 e-mail, had called him an “abuser of women”; in 2017, he was accused by a woman of raping her while she was drunk; in 2016 he was forced to quit his job as CEO at a Republican-funded non-profit after a whistle-blower accused him alcoholism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia and financial mismanagement. But by 2021, he was a soldier of God whose upper body was covered in tattoos depicting Crusader iconography, including the Jerusalem Cross and the Latin words “Deus Vult” – God wills it – the rallying cry used by Christian Knights during the First Crusades.

Mr. Hegseth’s religious transformation and its connections to Mr. Wilson’s Reformed Evangelical movement raise some unsettling questions for people well beyond that flock.

Mr. Hegseth, it seems, has found his truest voice inside Mr. Wilson’s unapologetically martial and masculine movement.

Striving for a more chauvinist America has apparently become the holiest of callings for him, with very real consequences for the U.S. war in Iran. If this is holy war – if, as his tattoo says, “God wills it” – then why would the rules of war matter? If you are fighting on the side of God, you “fight to win,” and the rules of engagement are, as Mr. Hegseth put it, “stupid.”
It’s not clear if Crusader logic will continue to guide the Trump administration’s Iran policy, or even how long Mr. Hegseth’s holy war goes on after this week’s announcement of a ceasefire. But the radical Christian ideology that underpins it isn’t going away.

And as Col. Lawrence Wilkerson warned over the weekend, Hegseth has big sectarian plans and big sectarian goals:

Col. Lawrence Wilkerson: Hegseth is preacher packing (that’s an) old southern term. You put the good strawberries on the top and the rotten ones on the bottom.

He’s preacher packing the military in all ranks. He’s getting Christian nationalists everywhere he can in the rank structure so that when time comes for the military to make a decision one way or the other with regard to the elections or whatever, he’ll have at least a sizable contingent in the military that’ll take his side.

Glenn Diesen: Is that the reason behind the all the 50:37 purge, the firing of the general? You see this as being uh building a Trump loyal army?

Wilkerson: Absolutely. The way he’s recruiting the states he’s recruiting from the Christian nationalist counties he’s recruiting from the evangelical base he’s recruiting from the conversions at the end of advanced individual training in the army for example they go to the river and baptize 60 or 70 recruits in the name of Jesus and God. You can’t make this stuff up

So, yea, things are getting crazy and there are specific crazy people with specific crazy sectarian beliefs pushing things in that direction.

And some other people, with different, if maybe equally crazy, sectarian beliefs are rising up to resist.

Stay tuned.

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56 comments

  1. leaf

    I wonder how much of this is driven by Trump and his backers/donors, and if Steven Cheung – White House Communications Director, is involved at all. Seems rather poorly thought out (if at all)

    1. Nat Wilson Turner Post author

      I need to keep a closer eye on Cheung. He started at the UFC and is a nexis between Trump and Ari Emanuel’s TKO empire.

      1. leaf

        I don’t check the mainstream news often (besides the daily Links) but I think it was that NYT article about how Trump got into the war where Cheung allegedly was shrewd enough to ask Trump something along the lines of “How can we justify going in again when we’ve declared for months that we destroyed all their nuclear program?”. Wonder what he made of all the flip flopping on the war goals, who started it (Rubio’s Israel forced our hand vs. Trump’s “maybe I forced their hand) and everything else since. It’s entirely possible he might have been sidelined recently but then again, according to that article he was present and Gabbard wasn’t, so he might still have some sort of role.

        Also wanted to clarify my earlier comment about it being rather poorly thought out, I was referring to Trump and co. as the messaging has been completely chaotic/antagonistic, not the article – which I think is very well written as your articles always are.

  2. Henry Moon Pie

    Thanks again, Nat. Fun stuff.

    One quibble: I don’t know why Lapine is blaming Luther for the Darby-ites. Luther was an amillennialist just like Augustine (Luther was an Augustinian monk.) and the Roman Catholic Church of his day. Amillennialists regard the “1,000 years” of Revelation 20 as part of an allegory referring to the current time of the Church in contrast to the premillennialist Darby-ites who regard the “1,000 years” as an actual, Earthly reign of Jesus.

    1. Samuel Conner

      Not to take Lapine’s side, but I think her point is that Luther, being the first meaningfully successful Protestant schismatic, can be regarded as the beginning of the schisms that disrupted (Western) Catholicism. He didn’t invent Darbyism, but Darbyism emerged out of the movement he inaugurated.

      I write this as a kind of lapsed (post-evangelical) protestant; “schismatic” is not intended in a derogatory sense, but simply a descriptive one. Protestantism is famously fissiparous.

      1. Anonymous 2

        Reminds me of a story about one of my fellow Scotsmen.

        He was stranded on a desert island for many years. He put up a number of buildings, including two churches.

        One day he was rescued and took his rescuers for a walk. He showed them the first church. That’s the Kirk I attend on Sunday, he said. The rescuers spot the second church . ‘And that’s the one I don’t attend ‘.

    2. lyman alpha blob

      Speaking of Augustine, these clowns do remind me of the younger version in that “Make me chaste, but not today!” kind of way.

      I’m guessing there won’t eventually be a St. Hegseth though.

  3. hamstak

    On the Moon of Alabama website, B’s latest post points out how the above-mentioned, Trump-posted image of himself as “holy healer” was actually a modified version of an image posted on X by one Nick Adams back on Feb. 4th. The two apparent distinctions are the central character above the healer’s head has been transformed into a demonic presence, and the text on the cap of the bearded gentleman has been revised from “VETERAN” to what appears to be “PEDERAST” (thanks to Bugs for reporting that over in the Iran war thread). This demonstrates carelessness, laziness, and a lack of attention to detail (quelle surprise!) on the part of POTUS and his social media team. Unless somebody sabotaged him…

    1. Nat Wilson Turner Post author

      Good info. B posted after I had dived into doing the post or I’d have included some of his analysis about the image and its subsequent deletion.

      1. ambrit

        I was somewhat surprised that there was no Revolutionary War soldier spirit in the crowd above His A–holiness’ head. There was a distinctly martial air to the image. No Prince of Peace this! And who was the person to the left of the image, Soleimani?

        1. Nat Wilson Turner Post author

          have you seen the version where Epstein is the patient? I thought I saw it at Moon of Alabama but now can’t find it.

          1. ambrit

            No, I have not but find the idea funny. No doubt, the Epstein “patient” has the ‘doctor’ by his short and curlies, conveniently out of sight.
            This ‘adventure’ will put paid to the Myth of Meritocracy. If the Nation’s leaders are touted as “the Best and Brightest,” then the message is plainly, visibly failing.
            Stay safe.

  4. Es s Ce Tera

    These attacks on the Pope would also lend credence to recent reporting that Cardinal Christophe Pierre was called to the Pentagon and warned/threatened with Avignon Papacy if the Catholic Church did not comply with Pentagon messaging.

    1. Nat Wilson Turner Post author

      Yes. Helmer covered that in the piece I linked and I have seen no denials from Trumpland.

  5. Oilfield Trash

    I think the article overreaches. It takes real differences between evangelical and Catholic views and turns them into a claim that U.S. policy is being driven by religious ideology. That doesn’t hold up. It confuses correlation with causation—just because some leaders use religious language doesn’t mean theology is driving decisions that are better explained by strategy and geopolitics. The “sectarian conflict” framing sounds compelling, but I don’t see evidence of coordinated influence inside government. It feels like the author is building a narrative first, then selecting examples to support it rather than proving the case.

    1. Nat Wilson Turner Post author

      Where did I make “a claim that U.S. policy is being driven by religious ideology”? Are you conflating what Shoe on Head said about dispensationalists with my point of view?

      And why is “evidence of coordinated influence inside government” necessary to prove the case that multiple prominent catholics are publicly confronting Trump administration policies?

      My only claim in the piece is that certain catholics (and one evangelical) are objecting to Trump’s policies and statements.

      ShoeOnHead and Wilkerson are pointing out that Hegseth and others have a certain belief set that is pretty alarming to see in government. I’m not saying they’re correct, I’m reporting on what they’re saying.

      Having said all that, if you don’t think the actions of Cruz, Graham, Hegseth et al are influenced by their beliefs, I don’t know how to help you.

      1. Samuel Conner

        In the cases of Cruz and Graham, it might be the beliefs of the most electorally active parts of their constituencies that are determinative of their foreign policy stances.

      2. ilsm

        I am observant Catholic and stand for Leo! His Palm Sunday homily is inspired.

        Pope Leo is doing great!

        Trump and Bibi have violated all points of St Augustine Just War doctrine. Leo could up his sermons,

        This war is anathema.

      3. Oilfield Trash

        I may have compressed your argument too much.

        My read of the piece was that, by foregrounding commentary about dispensationalism and highlighting the beliefs of figures like Hegseth, it leans toward implying a causal link between those beliefs and policy direction—even if you stop short of explicitly claiming that. That’s where I think the overreach risk comes in: readers can walk away with the impression that theology is a primary driver, rather than one variable among many.

        On the “evidence” point, I’m not saying coordinated influence is required to note that Catholics are publicly dissenting—that’s clearly happening. My concern is more about the escalation from documenting disagreement to suggesting underlying ideological drivers of policy. Those are different claims, and they require different levels of proof.

        As for Cruz, Graham, Hegseth, etc.—of course beliefs shape how people interpret the world. I’m not arguing they’re irrelevant. The question is weight: are those beliefs determinative in policy outcomes, or are they secondary to strategic, political, and institutional pressures? I tend to think it’s the latter, and that’s where I see the gap between what’s shown versus what’s implied.

        So I don’t think we’re that far apart on the facts—more on how strongly the interpretation should be pushed.

        1. Nat Wilson Turner Post author

          This is fair “leans toward implying a causal link” — but is a long way from my making an explicit argument.

          I have been arguing for a long time and in a lot of posts that the personal circumstances of individual politicians has a major influence in their behavior whether it’s dementia, drunkenness, religious fervor, or greed that should be considered.

          I’m doing that in a media context that ALWAYS defaults to strategic or political considerations and not only assumes but insists that all players are rational actors pursuing their self and national interests. So I’m letting the MSM handle that part of the argument and readers should not assume I’m making strong claims when I point out other factors that influence action.

          Having been surrounded by dispensationalists, dominionists, prosperity gospel heretics and other evangelicals my whole life, my advice is to never underestimate the role of their insane theology in their decision making.

          Someone like Elbridge “I threaten the church” Colby might have a geostrategic vision, but it’s not clear to me that he is a driving influence on Trump and Hegseth the way that the zionist donors and Bibi and Lindsay Graham are.

          I also don’t think Trump partakes of the dispensationalism, but I do fear he is lost in a messiah complex of his own.

          1. Oilfield Trash

            That’s a helpful clarification, and I get what you’re trying to do a lot more clearly now—thanks for the comments.

            I think where I’m still hung up is less on your intent and more on how it lands. Once you bring in things like dispensationalism or a messiah complex, that tends to become the headline in people’s minds, even if you’re just trying to add another variable. It can end up feeling like you’re weighting it more heavily than you probably mean to.

            I do agree with your broader point though—the media default to “everyone is a rational actor” is way too clean and misses a lot of what actually drives behavior. Personal beliefs, ego, pathologies, all of that matters. The challenge is figuring out when those things are actually driving decisions versus just sitting in the background.

            On the evangelical piece—I hear you. If you’ve been around that world, it’s hard not to see it as more influential than most analysts give it credit for. I just think that’s where it needs a bit more grounding in specific mechanisms—who’s influencing what decisions, how that shows up in policy, etc.—otherwise it can feel more inferred than demonstrated.

            I think your point about influence hierarchy is actually stronger—donors, foreign leaders, political operators—that’s a clearer chain of causation. And on Trump, I’m with you that his motivations seem a lot more personal than theological.

            So yeah, I don’t think we’re that far apart. It’s mostly about how strongly that religious factor is being implied to shape outcomes versus just being part of the mix.

            1. Nat Wilson Turner Post author

              “Once you bring in things like dispensationalism or a messiah complex, that tends to become the headline in people’s minds”

              This happens for a VERY good reason. Humans have long ancestral memories of religious conflict and sometimes people fall into belief systems that make them a threat (or a perceived threat) to their neighbors.

              Also the dispensationalist shit is so patently insane and dangerous it might need to be squelched.

              The alternative is letting stuff like this (via Responsible Statecraft) go on and on and getting where we are going :

              Israel wants to pay US pastors a stipend to spread the word
              Christian parishioners caught up in the church ‘geofencing’ project react to the ‘propagandizing’ and ‘religious manipulation’

              A newly-created firm called Show Faith by Works is embarking on a “geofencing” campaign to target Christian churches and colleges across the American Southwest with pro-Israel advertisements. The pastors and congregations themselves are seemingly unaware of this campaign, and some have concerns with Israel’s methods to target Christians.

              According to the firm’s filing under the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA), Show Faith by Works will “geofence the actual boundaries of every Major (sic) church in California, Arizona, Nevada, and Coloardo (sic) and all Christian Colleges during worship times” and then “track attendees and continue to target [them] with ads” on behalf of Israel. The geofencing campaign is part of a larger $3.2 million contract that also includes trying to hire celebrity spokespeople and paying pastors to produce content.

              RS reached out to hundreds of churches in California, Arizona, Nevada, and Colorado that were listed as potential targets of the geofencing campaign. None that responded were aware of the campaign. “We were not aware of that, no—you are the first to bring that to our attention,” said the press office for Bethel Church in Redding, California.

              1. Oilfield Trash

                I get why this raises concerns, especially with examples like the geofencing campaign—it shows there are real, tangible efforts to influence specific audiences, not just abstract beliefs. That strengthens your overall point. But the Moral Majority in the 1980s was doing similar things—mobilizing churches, shaping messaging, and trying to influence political outcomes—so this kind of activity isn’t entirely new.

                At the same time, as a journalist, you have latitude in how you frame this. But for readers like me, there’s still a gap between highlighting belief systems or influence attempts and demonstrating that they’re actually driving policy outcomes. That’s where the argument can feel more suggestive than conclusive.

                That tension isn’t new. Kennedy dealt with it directly as the first Catholic president, facing widespread concerns that the Pope would influence U.S. policy. He had to explicitly push back on that assumption. On the other side, Reagan benefited from strong support from the Moral Majority, but that didn’t mean evangelicals were dictating policy—he still had to balance multiple power centers and strategic considerations.

                Hegseth may be more vocal about his beliefs, and he’s arguably gone further by bringing them into the Pentagon in structured ways—like regular prayer meetings and an emphasis on “spiritual fitness.” That does push into a gray area, especially given the hierarchy and culture of the military, where “voluntary” settings can carry implicit pressure. But even then, that’s still a step removed from showing those beliefs are actually determining military decisions.

                I think a better argument is that he’s potentially brushing up against Establishment Clause concerns, It is cleaner and more defensible framing than saying religion is running the military.

                So I’m not dismissing the concern—I just think some readers will need more than patterns or examples of religious expression to conclude there’s a causal impact on policy. The argument lands harder when that link is clearly demonstrated.

  6. none

    Basically, they are extremely horny for the end of the world. And many of those people are in the president’s ear right now.

    Wait , US evangelists are one thing, but does Netanyahu also want that? Or ordinary Israelis, who are apparently mostly pro-war though maybe just because they’re stoked? Underneath the bomb doesn’t seem like a good place to want to be.

    1. Nat Wilson Turner Post author

      There are millenarians high up in Israeli councils, although I doubt that includes Bibi. But Ben Gvir, Smotrich and others are certifiable end-times religious fanatics whose beliefs dovetail perfectly with those of the dispensationalists — although each side believes the other side of the alliance is being played like suckers because one side thinks the Jews will be cast into Hell and the other side believes the goyim will be slaves.

    2. 4paul

      I suspect, I do not have enough research to prove, but I have some reading:

      Netanyahu, along with other Israeli government officials and US citizens who believe in Israel, have embarked on a decades-long campaign to use Evangelicals to nudge US foreign policy. Since the requirements for The End Times include a strong Israel, it is a match made in heaven; the details of who gets what when the world ends isn’t part of the short-to-medium term planning, which is support Israel no matter what. The same road leads to different places, but they agree on what we should do now (get rid of brown people from The Land Which God Promised To Us), again “us” can mean two different groups of people, but there are a lot of books/plays/movies about people who hate each other “saddling up” to go fight some other people because god told us something.

      The Noam Chomsky guy pegged the year 1967 as the begininning of Israeli government influence over the US government, and that year does dovetail with the false flag evil attempted sinking of the USS Liberty, and the rise of Billy Graham, who became an advisor to President Richard Nixon, their racist and antisemitic conversations memorialized in the Nixon Tapes and Harry Shearer’s reproduction “Nixon’s the One”. Billy Graham is the ur-Evangelical for today’s tele-evangelists, who have been driving the Tea Party / MAGA / Republican train on Sunday mornings for two decades since the 9/11 terrorsts attacks; 9/11 was blamed on “radical Fundamentalist Islamists”, which of course was incorrect, but religious fervor is good for business, and those megachurches don’t build themselves. Nothing like a common enemy (Islam) to unite Christian Fundameltalists and Israel-firsters. Israel-firsters can be any religion, even patriotic Americans (LOL / not laughing / sad emoji).

      Although, you can argue the roots go back much farther, Little Benji Netanyahu is descended from father and grandfather who were legendary for leading the move from Eastern Europe to Mandatory Palestine, and prostelytizing such in the United States. It is a family tradition, supposedly they trace their blood relations back to The Vilna Gaon, “the genius from Vilnius”. So Netanyahu, like Trump, will do anything and everything to write his name in history books as “the one who finally….”.

      Most importantly, which gets swept under the rug, Netanyahu is one of us (United States-ian): he went to high school and college in Philly and Boston, had a job with a consulting firm in Boston. He knows how to influence us because he is/was one of us; he speaks our language.
      https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/biography/benjamin-netanyahu

      So many issues in that family! Someone here in comments said, uncharitably, “the wrong brother died”, referring to the only casualty during the Operation/Raid on Entebbe was Benji Netanyahu’s older brother. THAT is some coincidence, huh!? The superstar older brother who was being groomed for politics gets killed in military service, one of the most famous military things that has happened in human history, and he, the older brother, is the only one killed. Maybe Little Benji is haunted by his older brother’s shadow to this day ….

      I would love to see some Shakespearean play about that dude, man he is such a tragic figure who creates tragedy even as he rises in power and position … I ain’t gonna dive deep into his life tho LOL.

      1. Nat Wilson Turner Post author

        Great post, two very minor quibbles.

        Ah but the Scofield Bible goes even further back and oddly precedes the Balfour Declaration only by a few years.

        Also I don’t believe getting an education in Philly & Boston helps much with decoding the ways of the Southern Evangelical. Very different cultures. Although, I have to admit that the smarties from the NE have been pulling our strings pretty well since forever, so maybe you’re right about that.

        1. none

          Philly and Boston means he speaks US English with no accent, and that helps him persuade Americans.

  7. motorslug

    On the plus side, it should be easy to purge and jail all of those Smegseth has installed. They are blatantly ignoring their oaths to ‘defend the Constitution’ by vice of doing the bidding of fairy tale believers.

    1. fjallstrom

      On the other side the Iran war is serving the same function as DOGE – firing anybody in decision making position that won’t follow illegal orders. Which may have domestic consequences as the number of people who will follow an order to send in tanks on the streets increases.

    2. Bugs

      I think they fear a soft coup and trials. They obviously need loyalists across the leadership to avoid that possibility. Maybe they haven’t reckoned with a powerful colonel leading a strong group to overthrow all of them.

  8. LY

    Crusades merging with the Thirty Years war didn’t occur to me. So would that make taking down Russia/Moscow the sacking of Constantinople?

  9. FreeMarketApologist

    Since it appears the dividing line between religious expression and political expression from the pulpit has now been thoroughly vaporized, I’m hoping that somebody in the next administration has the balls to legislate that religious entities should no longer be exempt from property and income taxes. It would probably a) balance the budget and b) bankrupt, and thus clean out, some (all?) of the freakshows currently on stage.

    Perhaps then we can run countries on something other than magic tricks.

  10. Tom Stone

    I can think of a few Americans who would like to be “The American Pope” and they would not necessarily be Catholics.
    Paula Caine-White?
    Joel Osteen?
    Are there any prominent Catholic right wing whack job/Paedophiles who would suit Vance?
    For that matter, why not Vance?
    Get rid of that separation of Church and State thingy and there’s some serious grift just waiting for the right Holy One to hoover it up.
    “God helps those who helps themselves to anything not nailed to the floor” as the early missionaries to Hawaii demonstrated.

  11. The Rev Kev

    In one of Robert Heinlein’s stories (from 1940!), he depicts a future America being a military theocracy with a Prophet as its leader and Washington DC being renamed New Jerusalem. Never expected to live so long as to see the building blocks for such a future being put in place-

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22If_This_Goes_On%E2%80%94%22

    A quote from that book which appears in that Wikipedia article-

    ‘There is a latent deep strain of religious fanaticism in [America]; it is rooted in our history and it has broken out many times in the past…[T]here has been a sharp rise in strongly evangelical sects in this country in recent years, some of which hold beliefs theocratic in the extreme, anti-intellectual, anti-scientific, and anti-libertarian…The capacity of the human mind for swallowing nonsense and spewing it forth in violent and repressive action has never yet been plumbed.’

  12. Ben Panga

    Another great piece Nat :)

    I realised today that:

    “Christian Nationalist Zionist” can be shortened to “Chri-Na-Zi”, pronounced “Cry-Nazis” which seems about right.

    (Still workshopping how to spell it)

    1. bertl

      They’ll call it a hate crime and popularise it’s use in polite Trump-makes-me-wanna-puke society. Good show!

  13. Nat Wilson Turner Post author

    Just hit me how brilliant Trump is at “Hey look over there.” This was all a great, if costly, distraction from his Iran blockade nonsense.

  14. johnnyme

    Another member of the Religious Liberty Commission is speaking out:

    Trump rebuffs Bishop Barron plea, says he will not apologize for Pope Leo tirade

    Bishop Robert E. Barron of Winona-Rochester, Minnesota, a member of the Religious Liberty Commission established by Trump, called the president’s comments from April 12 “entirely inappropriate and disrespectful” in an April 13 statement posted to the X social media platform.

    It is the pope’s prerogative to speak on matters of Catholic doctrine, Bishop Barron said, adding that while he thinks there are “many ways that the Trump administration has reached out to Catholics and other people of faith,” he thinks “the President owes the Pope an apology.”

    Asked about Bishop Barron’s statement, Trump said he would not apologize.

  15. In Cold Chud

    Next image: Trump in tighty whities is nailed to the cross. A Roman centurion with the face of Tucker Carlson holds a 1980s cell phone up to his head. Caption: Pick up the receiver, I’ll make you a believer.

    At least AI has put Jon McNaughton out of a job. Does the jet fighter have feathers, like it’s transitioning to or from an eagle? What even are the craft behind it?

  16. ChrisRUEcon

    Thanks Nat!

    DJG and I started discussing the nature of this schism a few days ago (via NC).

    Good to see the same theme echoed here:

    “And if you’re wondering why Ted Cruz suddenly out of nowhere is sharing like 10,000 word AI slop Twitter essays about how Catholics are parasites, it’s because he’s butt hurt that Catholics don’t believe in the same doomsday prophecy about Israel as him and other evangelicals do. Catholics are not religiously obligated to support Israel. Same with Orthodox. And honestly, most branches of Christianity.

    Evangelical Protestants, on the other hand, don’t know how to read and think the modern state of Israel is the same Israel mentioned in the Bible.

    This would be like the fry cook at McDonald’s being named Jesus and you falling to your knees and worshiping him as a savior and then blowing up the world for him.”

    LOL

    Pretty much. “Born again” Christianity presents as a “faith alone suffices” and “faith is only professing” paradigm that exempts those who profess from any actual meaningful acts that align with Christ as presented in the Gospels. The emphasis of Old Testament eye-for-an-eye, brimstone and fire theology stands in direct opposition to Christ as the personification of a new covenant between G*d and humanity. Hannity having a go at Pope Leo XIV by asking if he (the pope) ever heard of “David & Goliath” is testament to the rot in Televangelism World. Meanwhile, the G3Zoc1d4L state continues to bomb sites important to Catholics/Orthodox in Lebanon. This is a horrible miscalculation and escalation. As someone on X pointed out, the Shia-Catholic|Orthodox alliance is gonna get activated.

  17. bertl

    To sum it up, Trump is a lying f*cking heretic given to blasphemy, murder, chaos, and to aiding the Lord of the Flies as best as his intellectual limitations will allow, and he is the pocket Satan of the Christian and Jewish heretics who are committed to the Anti-Abrahamic doctrine of Zionism. “Nuff said.

  18. Glen

    Thank Nat!

    I suppose one should take heart that Trump has shown us a glimpse of how he intends to fix the American healthcare system.

  19. WillD

    Pope: 1
    Trump: 0

    I declare the loser to be: Donald Trump! Oh, wait. He hates being called a loser, even when he really has lost.

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